Indeed. And just as you want to escape from PvP the solution offered is a private group, it could be the solution for escaping combat loggers.
Poll about exit-to-menu delay time
- Thread starter Kyokushin
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This game has I think I higher than average age demographic. While I appreciate the OP's suggestion, and completely hate the whole combat logging stuff - it is just a game. You need to be able to turn it off. The amount of times I'm burning stuff in a RES when child A needs a bottom wiped, or a drink of water. What is the OP's parenting suggestion tip? Leave the child? Loose my ship? Obviously if no option is given and the 15s timer removed then than the latter it is. But I would prefer if the game (as it does now) allows me to turn it off.
Don't the none parents ever have anyone call them on the phone??!
But lets talk about what we are really talking about. When you PVP, you want to able to kill their ship, even if they do log out - which is where the "not possible" or "reset timer for each hit" comes from. I'm sympathetic, because the only reason they hit the timer is to escape death - we're all pretty sure there is no convenient bottom wiping needed JUST at that moment, right? The issue is you affect all the players who bounty hunt in RES or elsewhere.
For most players, I suspect PVP is a very small fraction of their time playing the game, while bounty hunting is a very high percentage. Unless you can tell the difference between PVP combat and PVE combat that allows a timer - not sure it works?
Therefore thats my suggestion - PVP has no timer, or like a 60 second timer minimum; PVE has a 15/20s one. That work?
Don't the none parents ever have anyone call them on the phone??!
But lets talk about what we are really talking about. When you PVP, you want to able to kill their ship, even if they do log out - which is where the "not possible" or "reset timer for each hit" comes from. I'm sympathetic, because the only reason they hit the timer is to escape death - we're all pretty sure there is no convenient bottom wiping needed JUST at that moment, right? The issue is you affect all the players who bounty hunt in RES or elsewhere.
For most players, I suspect PVP is a very small fraction of their time playing the game, while bounty hunting is a very high percentage. Unless you can tell the difference between PVP combat and PVE combat that allows a timer - not sure it works?
Therefore thats my suggestion - PVP has no timer, or like a 60 second timer minimum; PVE has a 15/20s one. That work?
I think it might be quite difficult to distinguish PVP from PVE. Sure if shots have landed and you are marked hostile for each other that's pretty simple. But simply another player in your RES with weapons hot - the game cannot tell whether they might be about to engage you or is just hunting NPC bounties. Nervous players might choose to pre-emptively log just in case they get locked into player combat, they don't want, with log out made more difficult.
Log out behaviour needs to be simple and predictable for all players. Getting the timing balanced is the most difficult problem. More immediately I think they need to change the default behaviour so that the countdown starts immediately and logout happens automatically unless you choose to cancel. That way you can get up and wipe your child's bottom without any delay.
Exactly. I dont know why it is so hart for PvP players to do that. It works well for PvE players. As shown by Mobius group. So if there is not that much interest in a group where pirating is "embraced content" maybe thats because there are not enough players that want to be the victim at all? And for that: maybe the playerbase decided that the "piracy" gameplay (while still "possible" in open) is just not their game. The few players like Gluttony that JUST cant deal with that and cry for mommy (a.k.a FD) to "make theo others play my way!!!!" are just a very vocal minority. Easily ignored by FD beacuse they dont bring in any money in the big picture.
I hate to stir the pot again, but I would like to add my 2 cents for a second.
> You've hit the nail on the head here. P2P is where your angst should be directed, not at the players. Humans tend to react a certain way when being threatened, (even if it's just a game); which leads me to....
> Petition FDev to your hearts content, but as long as P2P is utilized, you just won't get the experience you're hoping for. I empathize with your desire to play the way you see fit, I want the same. However, it's out of our hands and we need to make our peace with that. You can try and convince people to play the way you think they ought, but you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink.
> You've hit the nail on the head here. P2P is where your angst should be directed, not at the players. Humans tend to react a certain way when being threatened, (even if it's just a game); which leads me to....
> Petition FDev to your hearts content, but as long as P2P is utilized, you just won't get the experience you're hoping for. I empathize with your desire to play the way you see fit, I want the same. However, it's out of our hands and we need to make our peace with that. You can try and convince people to play the way you think they ought, but you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink.
This is a great idea and it makes the most sense out of any solution I've heard. Repped!
Um, think about that for a second.
They create a private pirate group. Only pirates allowed. ...Yarrrr! Um, wait a second, who are we going to pirate? just NPC's?
No one's asking you to "play their way" they're saying to play within the scope of the rules that FD laid out for open mode, and combat logging IS NOT acceptable there.
But menu logging is.
Wouldn't be a pirate private group. It would be a group who doesn't want combat or menu loggers. By being able to manage the group you can eject offenders yourself, and not be dependant on FD.
I want to click OK immediately whatever the timer is (but I'm fine with 15 seconds.
If the doorbell goes and I'm in a conflict zone with just NPCs I'm not happy with some angry little PvP'er saying I should be made to choose between answering the door or losing a few mill on buy back because I wasn't willing to wait a minute or more.
15 seconds basically says you can't legally exit if you are about to die. If you are at 1% its game over. Do you know how much grief people get from their other halves due to 15 second timers already.
"Bob, little Mikie has pooped his pants and is feeding it to little Eric. I'm in the loft please deal with it."
"Can it wait 60 seconds dear? I don't want to upset the NPC I'm fighting right now."
15 seconds is too long in that case, especially when can't click "Just do it and let me go - I don't care if you take 15 seconds, just let me go!"
If the doorbell goes and I'm in a conflict zone with just NPCs I'm not happy with some angry little PvP'er saying I should be made to choose between answering the door or losing a few mill on buy back because I wasn't willing to wait a minute or more.
15 seconds basically says you can't legally exit if you are about to die. If you are at 1% its game over. Do you know how much grief people get from their other halves due to 15 second timers already.
"Bob, little Mikie has pooped his pants and is feeding it to little Eric. I'm in the loft please deal with it."
"Can it wait 60 seconds dear? I don't want to upset the NPC I'm fighting right now."
15 seconds is too long in that case, especially when can't click "Just do it and let me go - I don't care if you take 15 seconds, just let me go!"
Change it to 0 because who cares? The only reason anyone wants others to be stuck in the game is to grief them with death.
I wish people would stop exaggerating like this.
I'm not a pirate, but have been pirated several times. Guess what? I gave them some cargo, and the let me go. Amazing!
I actually much prefer player pirates over NPC ones. Some players actually just want a bit of cargo. All NPC's just want to blow you up.
Sure, but even if what I described is minimal, it does happen. And even if every single encounter is like your experience, dropping the log out timer changes nothing. There's no purpose for the timer other than griefing.
And yet in this very thread we actually have people who want you to be trapped in a computer game until you land your ship.
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Can't you see how dropping out of the game in the middle of an engagement can also be a form griefing?
There nothing about even a 0 log-out time that would prevent piracy as a game career.
All it could do is prevent players form pirating other players. You can pirate NPCs until you're blue in the face.
The unspoken assumption that pirating only NPCs is unacceptable makes it pretty clear that the objection is based on one thing only - the desire to demonstrate how much better you are than other players (or how much better you think you are). It's not enough to be able to play the game your own way - you want to dictate how others play the game in order to cater to your own amusement. That is not a reasonable demand or expectation.
All it could do is prevent players form pirating other players. You can pirate NPCs until you're blue in the face.
The unspoken assumption that pirating only NPCs is unacceptable makes it pretty clear that the objection is based on one thing only - the desire to demonstrate how much better you are than other players (or how much better you think you are). It's not enough to be able to play the game your own way - you want to dictate how others play the game in order to cater to your own amusement. That is not a reasonable demand or expectation.
Again, I'm not a pirate, but even I can see how they're not even remotely close.
Try interdicting a NPC hauler and telling him to drop his cargo. See what happens.
Anyway, a zero logout timer has implications even against NPC's. Basically you're allowing people to avoid any conflict at any time. The improved AI means nothing if people can just logout any time they're in danger.
Of course that really doesn't have a direct impact on me or anyone else. But I don't think that's the game FD is looking to make here.
Thats why there are hatch braeker limpets.
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If you're not there, why on earth do you even care?
Because it's not enough for you to play how you want, you want to dictate how other people play as well.
I think this whole thread is very interesting because it shows exactly why I don't want to play with you guys.
Someone says he'll combat log if you attack him. You call him a filthy cheater. Why is exiting the game a cheat? Because FDEV says it's an exploit.
Someone says he'll quit to the menu if you attack him. You call him a filthy coward. FDEV said logging to the menu is OK, you don't care about what FDEV says.
Someone says he doesn't want to fight with you. You tell him to go to Solo or PG.
Someone says just create a PG against combat logging. You say this doesn't work because all the people that don't want to play with you will not be there.
I think your logic is one-sided.
Someone says he'll combat log if you attack him. You call him a filthy cheater. Why is exiting the game a cheat? Because FDEV says it's an exploit.
Someone says he'll quit to the menu if you attack him. You call him a filthy coward. FDEV said logging to the menu is OK, you don't care about what FDEV says.
Someone says he doesn't want to fight with you. You tell him to go to Solo or PG.
Someone says just create a PG against combat logging. You say this doesn't work because all the people that don't want to play with you will not be there.
I think your logic is one-sided.
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