about to lose 68 hours of gameplay

[CMDR Cillian Raynor]

The problem is FD relies on its veteran gamers to tell them if the game is too easy or hard. I mean i believe the average forum member has likely a few hundred hours put into the game. They do not represent the average gamer's skills. I'm a veteran gamer by gaming time, but not by combat skills. I kinda suck i admit it. Despite all these hours in combat, i have not learned to get great at it. Maybe i am mentally challenged, i don't know. Maybe it's something innate. It's like you can put a guitar in someone's hands and tell them they'll get great if they keep practicing, but yet some people despite hours don't ever really get great at it. Because somehow they can't develop a good sense of rhythm, or don't have the necessary motor skills or whatever reason, for some people they are innately good at something, and others kinda are innately bad and will never manage to reach the "next level" (i should know because ive been playing guitar for 20 years and while i'm definitely GOOD at it, i've never managed to become GREAT. im at best Master at guitar playing, but not Elite)

I havent died yet since 2.1 release, but i also, unlike the more casual player, have the luxury to fight in a fully kitted clipper or vulture,. I HAVE run plenty of times though. Too many times. I pretty much cant go 1 on 1 against ANY ship above master. In conflict zones that's mainly what you meet, ships at master or above. So combat hasn't gotten more fun for me, it's gotten worse. because now i pretty much HAVE to have backup before i take on most ships. If it's not firing at anyone else, i'm probably not taking a shot. I mean i could just bounty hunt novice and harmless ships. But at this stage of the game, i'm not exactly keen on wasting my time killing ships that will earn me 10 000$. Sure i can go the pacifist route and just trade or take missions that don't involve combat, but i actually want to do combat.

If nothing else if the game is to maintain that difficulty level, i think they need to have proper combat tutorials (teaching you how to fight with FA off) and ways to train in the game with your ships and builds that doesn't mean risking a rebuy cost. maybe training grounds (instances) with drone ships of various skill levels that don't fire at you (or stop firing when your shields are off or something)? Like i CAN go "train" against a harmless ship but what's the point? It won't teach me how to NOT have a Elite Eagle run circles around me.

i REALLY have to wonder how the new ED player can survive long enough to get to like the game. I feel at the difficulty the game is now, i'd have probably rage quit the game within a week in the early days. I mean i do remember being terrified of combat in the first two weeks and god knows the AI was a lot dumber then (feb 2015)

My brother is a casual ED gamer. He's put in a few dozens of hours (well hes probably reach the couple hundreds) but nowhere near the time i've put in the game. He bought Horizons though. He asked me how the AI was in 2.1 After i told him, i don't think he's gonna resume playing. I also don't think he plans on buying any further seasons.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The problem is FD relies on its veteran gamers to tell them if the game is too easy or hard. I mean i believe the average forum member has likely a few hundred hours put into the game. They do not represent the average gamer's skills.

While Frontier may listen to those players who frequent the Official Forums to an extent, they have a much more reliable source of information available to them - extensive in-game analytics. They can mine their data and look at the player-death rates before and after a change - and make decisions regarding potential changes accordingly.

 

[Bill Clement]

From Zac's post:
(Quote:

Originally Posted by Zac AntonaciGood news Commanders,

Due to the recent surge of unsanctioned and illegally modified weapons from the NPC AI over the recent days. The Pilots Federation have agreed to reimburse all insurance payouts made over that period (Between The Engineers (2.1) update and this mornings update).

The Pilots Federation would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your patience and continued support.

Fly safe.


(We'll let you know once this update has gone live))

Does that include everyone? Or just those hit by engineered weapons? I got blatted by an AI FdL while out and about in my Lakon 7 yesterday. I'm not convinced that engineered weapons had much to do with the outcome...

Still, it does show (yet again) that FD actually care about their customers a whole lot more than most companies out there. Kudos. Thanks for that, Robert.

 

[Space Dandy]

Elite Dangerous is no longer a game intended to be played by average or casual players. I can say this with confidence because of the direction the game has taken since beta days. I would love to find a way to recoup my investments but I don't for a moment believe that Sandro and crew are concerned with it. They have gifted the game to Ace Fighter Pilots, Pirates and PVPers who absolutely demand the diffulty be cranked all the way up to ludicrous. The Frontier Development team has also started new game projects that will be taking up their creative time. The perils of having a successful game are that the team moves on to new projects. The promise of continued development did not include exclusivity. What will happen if the other games become successful and demand more of their time? I'm just biding my time waiting for the now delayed until August "No Man's Sky". This game was from the start intended to be played by a much wider audience.

Indeed, seems to be a problem lately that they are forgetting who the majority that invested and made this game possible in the first place and are listening far too much to a small minority.

From Zac's post:

Nice.


I knew this was going to be a right mess so I'm on extended vacation from the game as FD seem to not want my casual type to enjoy this game. Will check back when next expansion is on sale or if they get back to "play your own way".

 

[Bieltan]

The problem is FD relies on its veteran gamers to tell them if the game is too easy or hard. I mean i believe the average forum member has likely a few hundred hours put into the game. They do not represent the average gamer's skills. I'm a veteran gamer by gaming time, but not by combat skills. I kinda suck i admit it. Despite all these hours in combat, i have not learned to get great at it. Maybe i am mentally challenged, i don't know. Maybe it's something innate. It's like you can put a guitar in someone's hands and tell them they'll get great if they keep practicing, but yet some people despite hours don't ever really get great at it. Because somehow they can't develop a good sense of rhythm, or don't have the necessary motor skills or whatever reason, for some people they are innately good at something, and others kinda are innately bad and will never manage to reach the "next level" (i should know because ive been playing guitar for 20 years and while i'm definitely GOOD at it, i've never managed to become GREAT. im at best Master at guitar playing, but not Elite)

I havent died yet since 2.1 release, but i also, unlike the more casual player, have the luxury to fight in a fully kitted clipper or vulture,. I HAVE run plenty of times though. Too many times. I pretty much cant go 1 on 1 against ANY ship above master. In conflict zones that's mainly what you meet, ships at master or above. So combat hasn't gotten more fun for me, it's gotten worse. because now i pretty much HAVE to have backup before i take on most ships. If it's not firing at anyone else, i'm probably not taking a shot. I mean i could just bounty hunt novice and harmless ships. But at this stage of the game, i'm not exactly keen on wasting my time killing ships that will earn me 10 000$. Sure i can go the pacifist route and just trade or take missions that don't involve combat, but i actually want to do combat.

If nothing else if the game is to maintain that difficulty level, i think they need to have proper combat tutorials (teaching you how to fight with FA off) and ways to train in the game with your ships and builds that doesn't mean risking a rebuy cost. maybe training grounds (instances) with drone ships of various skill levels that don't fire at you (or stop firing when your shields are off or something)? Like i CAN go "train" against a harmless ship but what's the point? It won't teach me how to NOT have a Elite Eagle run circles around me.

i REALLY have to wonder how the new ED player can survive long enough to get to like the game. I feel at the difficulty the game is now, i'd have probably rage quit the game within a week in the early days. I mean i do remember being terrified of combat in the first two weeks and god knows the AI was a lot dumber then (feb 2015)

My brother is a casual ED gamer. He's put in a few dozens of hours (well hes probably reach the couple hundreds) but nowhere near the time i've put in the game. He bought Horizons though. He asked me how the AI was in 2.1 After i told him, i don't think he's gonna resume playing. I also don't think he plans on buying any further seasons.

The new AI deffo needs refining. I believe lower ranks are set to be made easier, and tbh there needs to be more randomness to it. I heard someone say that their Anaconda was exclusively interdicted by Elite rank Gunships, and my experience is identical. Even though I could swat it if I was outfitted for combat (I'm not though, so I just run *yawn*) I do miss the lemming pirates in the smaller ships. They were good for a chuckle.

As for actually fighting new AI? High agility, tough ships (FAS and FDL spring to mind) and liberal use of FA off boost turns. If they cant out turn you, they'll try to zoom n boom. So long as you get your guns on them first, you should wear them down, just be prepared for a lengthy battle. An Elite FDL kept me tied up for ages lol

 

[Jex =TE=]

Hmm, not to do any of what deadspin predicted, but I haven't run in to any issues with ridiculous overpowered AI yet.
I even purpose took my 2.0 equipped FDL out to a haz res expecting instant death. But no.
I left an hour later mostly unharmed.... very odd.

A quick question... 68 hours and still struggling for cash for your Cobra Mk III? Not to be rude, but I find that very odd. Lol
I got to a DBS in 3 hours. But that was mainly from v1.4s bounty hunting and missions.
In any case, if you're online when I am (which is rarely these days), I'll happily run escort for you. I can atleast keep them busy while you escape.
I'm sure others will do the same.
I'm currently loitering around Everate.
I can also cover you and help you earn some bounty money of you need a quick cash injection too. Obviously, can't guarantee your safety, but I can do my damned best.
Look me up.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead.

A quick question... A clearly explained forum post easily understandable and you didn't get it? Not to be rude, but I find that very odd. Lol

 

[Insomnia]

Not really, see above. I don't think the AI will be turned back down, FD will most probably restrict their access to engineered weapons and call it job done. Advice to the OP on how to avoid combat- either at the interdiction stage, or by avoiding riskier areas- might keep one of our fellow players interested enough to stay with us. Calling him childish names and building ridiculous Aunt Sallys will only drive him away. If you accept that there are a number of people in similar circumstances then you should be able to see why I'm keen to try and help the OP. I'm not being nice, it's actually rather selfish of me to try and make him carry on playing 'my' game when he's clearly not enjoying himself. But if I can encourage him and like minded people to find their mojo they'll hopefully start enjoying themselves again and there's a few more potential customers for next year's season pass.

First of all I was only taking about the post toy replied to. Sorry for misunderstanding and sorry to peeing in someone else's pool.
But he is right. FD can and must listen to the complaints, to a certain degree. They still has to maintain focus on the vision and not derail too much from it by listening to everyone.
If FD would have listened to the armchair developers here on the forums I don't think Elite Dangerous would be particularly fun game to play.

 

[Jex =TE=]

First of all I was only taking about the post toy replied to. Sorry for misunderstanding and sorry to peeing in someone else's pool.
But he is right. FD can and must listen to the complaints, to a certain degree. They still has to maintain focus on the vision and not derail too much from it by listening to everyone.
If FD would have listened to the armchair developers here on the forums I don't think Elite Dangerous would be particularly fun game to play.

Surely this is an oxymoron? The one huge criticism ED has is being boring to play. I don't know any other game that gets called that. Some games are just bad, some infuriating, some massively buggy which ruins them but I don't know any that say they're boring to play - if that's FD's vision then yes, they do need other people telling them not to do things. The Engineers update is another example of stuff people won't use like PP and CQC. Give it 6 months and Engineers will be just like PP unless FD massively change its function in which case, they would have listened to the arm chair developers.

It's a weird kind of hand waving to tell people that have played computer games for years or decades they couldn't possibly know what a good game is or recommend improvements.

 

[Tecker]

Stand by for the following:

1: People telling you to "git gud"...."tell them do get lost"
2: People telling you this is how the game is supposed to be. ....."Why the HACK the Game wasn´t released with that AI when it is as supposed?
3: People telling you, in many more words, to be less casual. ....Sure....If they go to Work for me i never be a Casual anymore.
4: Old salts telling stories of their many achievements in the '84 Elite and how much easier we have it today........Simply not true....Played every Elite before and there never was an AI that killed you without ever be seen trough the Cockpit Window.

As a fellow casual player who only logs 2-3 hours a week, I feel your pain.

Edited your Text a little.

 

[Chummy62]

Minecraft sales topped 100,000,000 yesterday. Marketing a game to the masses is exceptionally profitable. Limiting your potential market to a subset of the population will directly impact the bottom line. I contend that the bones of ED are strong and this game can still be made into something better than just another space shooter. As I have stated before, David and the team are masters of procedural generation. With all the focus on combat, they completely missed applying their skills to the part of ED that "No Man's Sky" is about to beat them to market with. Simply put, they were once leaders but are about to become followers.

 

[Insomnia]

Surely this is an oxymoron? The one huge criticism ED has is being boring to play. I don't know any other game that gets called that. Some games are just bad, some infuriating, some massively buggy which ruins them but I don't know any that say they're boring to play - if that's FD's vision then yes, they do need other people telling them not to do things. The Engineers update is another example of stuff people won't use like PP and CQC. Give it 6 months and Engineers will be just like PP unless FD massively change its function in which case, they would have listened to the arm chair developers.

It's a weird kind of hand waving to tell people that have played computer games for years or decades they couldn't possibly know what a good game is or recommend improvements.

Really, I agree with you. They really need to listen to the fans and the general supporters. If people complain, game is alive. Or at least the community is alive.
But... FD still has their vision and I think they need to pursue it despite how people react to certain things. Things like I want endgame content. If Braben really dislikes the idea of having endgame content but still decides to implement endgame content just because the player base wants it. How good will that be in the end?
That's what I meant.

 

[Chummy62]

That is an interesting conundrum. How to you continue to play a game that doesn't have a logical path to play? David himself said in the PC Gamer interview that we (The players) are missing most of the content. Something significant has been missed because the old saying goes; "If you build it, they will come". David built it, and some looked for it but could not find it.

 

[bossbrigand]

I have no idea if this has been said or not but if you are in this situation by a cheap Eagle or something and park your more expensive ship. Any upgraded module on the Cobra will finance an Eagle, so just sell something and park it. You don't have to stubbornly cling to a ship you cannot insure.

 

[frostypaw]

Surely this is an oxymoron? The one huge criticism ED has is being boring to play. I don't know any other game that gets called that.

You're taking the mickey right?

I can list you 50 games off the top of my head I find ditchwater dull, some of them huge AAA titles.

There's a lot of space for different types of games. Lots of people like this one.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Edited your Text a little.

Please don't. Modifying quoted text can be considered to be "User Impersonation" and may be dealt with accordingly.

 

[frostypaw]

As I have stated before, David and the team are masters of procedural generation. With all the focus on combat, they completely missed applying their skills to the part of ED that "No Man's Sky" is about to beat them to market with. Simply put, they were once leaders but are about to become followers.

Idk.

Not sure this has the level of realism I'd be hoping for in a proper space game
how large is a planet in no man's sky?

It's a totally different market. The games market is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE now - it's not "the space game" and "the adventure game" and "the action shooter" - there's space for fifty of each - and that's a good thing. The more variety the better

tl:dr half the diameter of halley's comet

 

[Susanna]

Hi,
You can't imagine how disapointed and upset i am right now.

So i beg to you FD, please give people like me a chance to stay in this game.
An option to choose a beginner difficulty level in solo play would be totaly fine for me. I don't need a challange.
I have challanges enough in real life.

I too share your pain and I do understand your feelings. It has reduced me to tears of frustration in the last week!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257709

I, like you, am a casual player who plays some evenings and weekends when time away from real life permits. Learning how to adapt to this game has certainly been a challenge as a consequence!

But from all the help I've received this week, I'm starting to believe that it might be possible to survive in this game still. I've not put it to the test yet though! [Have 'tested' it now - not survivable]. Game time will tell, but I'm much better equipped and knowledgeable than I was a week ago! The folks here are amazingly helpful! Despite my first impressions of the ED community as being a load of cut throat Barnicles from my experiences playing (albeit very briefly!) in Open mode. It is in fact a very supportive community!

I doubt FDev will implement any kind of game levels for the likes of beginner level players (aka power play etc disabled), so it's going to be a case of adapt or die, and play something else. Personally, I'm not used to quitting so I'm sticking at it with the help of folks here for now until I find I really can't survive despite all the help [sadly this seems to be the case - thank you to those that did offer help and constructive comments though - it is very much appreciated].

Fly Safe, or at least dodge as many npc's as you can!

 

[Innigo]

OK, so you've a few options. Park up your cobra, buy a sidewinder and get some data running missions to earn some creds with next to no risk.

Respec your cobra for running away.

Downspec so you can afford the rebuy

Move to a safer part of space.

Fit some shield cells and HRPs to boost your survivability.

If you're close to me (Avalon) tell me what an awesome person I am and I'll drop off some cargo.

If you stick close to home you can get your rep up with the factions pretty quickly and they'll start offering some high paying missions.


I've just upgraded to a python and only have enough funds left for 2 rebuys. Typically I like enough for at least 5, ideally 10, so am treading carefully myself.

 

[clivewil]

Park up your cobra, buy a sidewinder and get some data running missions to earn some creds with next to no risk.

the Cobra is well suited for surface salvage missions, and they pay really well - and 90% of the time the only flying threats are skimmers, which go down after just a couple of hits. anything else you can run from, not much can beat a Cobra in a straight line.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Really, I agree with you. They really need to listen to the fans and the general supporters. If people complain, game is alive. Or at least the community is alive.
But... FD still has their vision and I think they need to pursue it despite how people react to certain things. Things like I want endgame content. If Braben really dislikes the idea of having endgame content but still decides to implement endgame content just because the player base wants it. How good will that be in the end?
That's what I meant.

Yes there's having a vision like no end game content and that's fine - games don't need endgame content if their core mechanics are solid. When those mechanics are bad people need to start saying so. The devs can listen or they can watch their player base drop. How many people are quitting over the new Engineer thing? If the Engineers was a "vision" then I dunno what to say - I don't think it's a particularly good vision to stick in an rng wheel of fortune.

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You're taking the mickey right?

I can list you 50 games off the top of my head I find ditchwater dull, some of them huge AAA titles.

There's a lot of space for different types of games. Lots of people like this one.

Tell me of another game people watch netflix when they're "playing" it.