News NPC AI update

[SystemShift]

Well I have had about enough of this, I started out with 142,000,000Cr Now down to 119,000,000Cr all because of the dam NPC`s, Flying a tpye 7 and I last about 4-7 seconds, Did quite well just now I lasted 11 seconds so getting better.

Still not getting this engineers, to me it seams to unbalance what was a good game.

 

[Captain Henna]

I try and play a varied game with my limited time. Not the best in combat but now are lasting significantly longer, death is not instant, with the right amount of balance of NPC with superior weapons and those with a similar setup.

Missles seem to hit you regardless of the distance not quite sure what is happening there.

Oddly I have observed whilst taking part in the Mehet goal that allied NPC do not seem to have any updates at all. If I shadow a security ship they are pretty much equal when in a fight against an enemy NPC and seem to do/take the same damage. However become wanted yourself that NPC can suddenly take out your shield and kick your butt very quickly!

 

[Schwarzwolf]

Indeed. This with the infinite ammo is something i noticed aswell, specifically:

Infinite chaff: The Fer-de-Lances i encountered (and that was a lot of) have thrown chaff in all fight long nerly without a pause. Ok, with 4 pips in shields i was able to reload my weapons then.
Infinite shield cells: Thats the most annoying one. Ships with shield cells equipted (most Anacondas and some Fer-De-Lances) seems to throw them in like a steam locomotive the coal. Without a pause and in infinite numbers. Even without the need to deploy heatsinks. I even got attacked from a Fer-de-Lance today with both chaff and shield cells. It was throwing them all time. Was lucky to get support from the police to somehow break trough the shields. Ok, he hasn't done much shield damage by me aswell. Ok, possible that it got heat damage. Its hull was decreasing the whole fight, still with the shields up.
Infinite ammo: Have noticed this aswell by a Fer-de-Lance only with dump fire missiles equiped. Ok, he wasn't targeting to well, but he fired them all time.

Laser targeting: Haven't noticed a lot about the enemy accuracy. My ship is a bit on the large site and an easy target for them. But noticed on the other hand, that our turrets are extremly inaccurate, using subsystem targeting. Tried it one time and nearly lost the battle, because i wasn't hitting anything.

I don't think, that the AI for itself is to hard, but for trading, the interdiction shouldn't be always on the top. I don't think, that ships below dangeorus aren't even interdicting me anymore. And Fer-de-Lances and Anacondas seems to be the only enemy interdicting me. Ok, how already told, i can outrun the second and the first one is something i still can stand against, but considering other players with slower ships like Anacondas or even frighters, the game has to be rebalanced to avoid a slaughter festival.
But aswell now when the NPCs have a nice AI, they should aswell have some fair ships and not cheat ships with unlimited everything.

 

[Flimley]

2.1 Has me feeling very unsatisfied, each game session seems to feel very unfulfilling, resulting with very little sense of achievement... The game has changed so much.
And I'm convinced shields are not as strong across the board as they were before? Plus if you are carrying any cargo, every NPC and its mum attacks you, and not escaping almost instantly results in no shields little hull and even death. So every ship you own now must employ maximum shielding.
Flimley

 

[Mukatsuku]

Decided to stream my game to Twitch, avoiding all signal sources (they are no longer fun due to the current AI).
Spent a couple of hours doing surface missions due to encountering fewer ships and was enjoying it.
Picked up 2 delivery missions and got interdicted in my Cobra Mk 4 with all the best equipment it is possible to get (apart from Engineer upgrades).
As soon as I got interdicted I diverted full power to engine with the remaining to shields and kept boosting out of there whilst hitting the FSD.
My shields were removed in 2 or 3 shots and then he targeted my FSD so I couldn't escape. Got a 500,000cr fine for the cargo I lost as it was for the missions I had.
It's the first time I've rage quit in Elite.
You should always have a chance to escape.
There's no way a player can target and destroy a specific module in less than 10 seconds.
I now just feel frustrated all the time when playing the game whereas before I had fun exploring new planets and trading.
If this is not fixed soon it is going to keep me and many others away from the game. How long before ObsidianAnt calls it quits due to the new AI considering he seems to classify himself as an explorer mainly?

 

[careBear1]

Maybe FD should turn back the NPCs to 2.0 and instead implement new overpriced weaker weapons to give the pro gamers a challenge. They can have a golden laser beam. So everyone can see how special they are.

Actually, may be they should make them impossible to beat. Then the 'git guders' might finally understand how the rest of us feel. (sorry just a joke. could not resist. I lived through the era of chess computers being laughably easy to beat by social players to being (much) better than the world champion. There is limit to git gud, even for the best. )

 

[Mukatsuku]

Just thought, maybe the NPCs are currently using the code meant for Thargoids... this would explain everything and indicate why the Horsehead Nebula is now permit only

 

[davebodger]

Decided to stream my game to Twitch, avoiding all signal sources (they are no longer fun due to the current AI).
Spent a couple of hours doing surface missions due to encountering fewer ships and was enjoying it.
Picked up 2 delivery missions and got interdicted in my Cobra Mk 4 with all the best equipment it is possible to get (apart from Engineer upgrades).
As soon as I got interdicted I diverted full power to engine with the remaining to shields and kept boosting out of there whilst hitting the FSD.
My shields were removed in 2 or 3 shots and then he targeted my FSD so I couldn't escape. Got a 500,000cr fine for the cargo I lost as it was for the missions I had.
It's the first time I've rage quit in Elite.
You should always have a chance to escape.
There's no way a player can target and destroy a specific module in less than 10 seconds.
I now just feel frustrated all the time when playing the game whereas before I had fun exploring new planets and trading.
If this is not fixed soon it is going to keep me and many others away from the game. How long before ObsidianAnt calls it quits due to the new AI considering he seems to classify himself as an explorer mainly?

+1. I share your pain.
Very similar to one of my recent experiences.

Up until 2.1/1.6 I had been enjoying helping with community goals and generally zooming around.
I am not a combat jockey, merely 20% Competent, and mostly trade & explore.
I recently managed to afford a Python and am trying to work up to fully A-graded modules, I am only C on power plant and shield generator.
Prior to 2.1 it felt a powerful ship, now it feels like and handles like a dog with the NPCs flying rings around me.
This is after adding two A shield boosters and a 390 point hull reinforcement package, which allow me to run away maybe 50% of the time.
I mean, I've been through 3 Pythons in the last 3 days, 5 since 2.1 went live (2 got refunded). Previously I lost 3 ships in a year.
I don't see myself playing much going forwards unless some substantial tuning is performed to tune to it individual players needs.

SUGGESTION TO FRONTIER: Take the ratio between players trading, combat and exploration scores as an indication of their game play preferences.
Don't repeatedly interdict and kill players just because they took a simple mission or two.
Sure killing them will make the game harder (which from this update it appears you want to) but you will end up with very few players and the game will die due to lack of real-world income as the word spreads that it is a game that just griefs you and is really no fun to play any more.

OBSERVATION: I was getting interdicted continuously when I took a long range boom delivery mission, like every jump.
Then I realised the only difference was I had some engineer commodities in the hold that I had got as a reward from a previous mission.
I jettisoned them and the interdictions went away. Coincidence?, I think maybe not.

And that's another thing, how are you supposed to store all the commodities that the engineers need?
I have a big hold but it's going to fill fast if I have to use it to store all this engineer junk until it's needed.
Or is that why we are having our ships destroyed so regularly, to stop us storing this stuff??

 

[Mukatsuku]

Also, how do the NPCs know what we're hauling before scanning us?
There's no way for us to tell what they have while in supercruise

 

[davebodger]

Also, how do the NPCs know what we're hauling before scanning us?
There's no way for us to tell what they have while in supercruise

I believe the Canon for this is that dishonest workers in the starport who load the commodities onto our ships radio the information to the pirates for a handsome fee.

 

[persian]

Hello mate, The AI is so difficult and it is not enjoyable any more I have stooped playing all together I can not just through all thoses credits for insurance anymore between 6 mil for my fer de and 16 Mil for my conda

 

[Johnnykirk]

I think for less advanced players the new AI is a massive disadvantage and i can see how players trading in smaller ships or those that are only starting out are now going to find the game unplayable/too hard and just give up. Obviously this is a bad thing for fronteir as people just start leaving and no new players join.

However.... I am actually really enjoying the updates. Obviously being combat elite, in a corvette thats completely maxed out at over 700million creds worth with two huge hardpoints and the new class 4A beams (which are LETHAL) is the reason i can survive/take on the new AI and concentrate on getting all modules upgraded by the engineers.

90% of other players dont have this advantage and I think the only people that will enjoy the updates and continue to play are those like myself who dont have to trade/make money to get better ships. Perhaps there is a way to make the AI geared towards rank? Less powerful to the new players to give them a chance.

 

[Col dog]

The game balance is not right . I have played this game from the start but if my ships are destroyed and I start going backwards .
i lost two ships in two hours now a federal assault ship with 4 x plasma cannons destroyed my Asp in under 10 seconds in one attack run with 64 t of silver on board. Next my anaconda ship was attacked by another federal assault ship and I managed to win but my hull was 35% in the end
I will try again tomorrow with heavy shields on the anaconda ship . Maybe that will help.

 

[Ziljan]

Since 2.1.02 the NPCs are way to forgiving and easy. The number of challenging higher rank NPCs has also dwindled. It's gone from one or two per system to less than one per day.

In order to get a decent fight have to attack cops!! That is not my playstyle at all. Not interested in becoming a villain.

 

[MonsterKiller]

So, I think there seems to be a serious issue with the NPC AI that is effecting gameplay and making the game too frustrating to play.

I've been playing Elite for a while now and mainly do trading, with the occasional trip to a RES for some combat. At the moment, I'm in an AspX doing trading, trying to get some credits to get a Python. Since 2.1 dropped however, this has become a LOT more difficult. It's gone from interdictions every 30-60 mins or so to getting interdicted every 5-10 mins which is annoying. This isn't the main issue though as many have outlined, the ships I get interdicted by a far bigger and higher ranked than myself. A lot of these interdictions I stand little chance of fighting, so I usually try to flee, but will sometimes end up taking damage. Several times after fleeing, the same ship has interdicted me AGAIN within seconds of me getting back into SC and almost killed me. However, yesterday took the biscuit. With no warning message from the NPC, I got interdicted by a Master ranked Python. (baring in mind, I'm competent rank). As soon as I fell out of SC the Python sent "I just want your cargo", then a wing-mate to the Python turned up. Before I knew it they had both unleashed HELL on me, they took off my shields and ripped me apart within 10 seconds. I was chaffing and boosting away but this didn't help. I had NO chance of survival in that situation. (I had all 5A/4A modules).

Don't get me wrong, I'm up for a challenge but you shouldn't be forced into situations where you have no hope of survival. A game should be fun, being forced into the re-buy screen is not fun.
Frontier really need to look into re-balancing the AI difficulty, you should be facing more ships your own rank when being interdicted. RES's are fine, you expect high rank ships, but why is pretty much every ship around the galaxy kitted head to toe with the best of the best and looking to destroy any player they see? Doing trading or mining in a ship designed for it, like Type-6/7/9 is now impossible, you're essentially a floating coffin.

There are players of all skill level, the AI should reflect that. A friend of mine recently started playing Elite for the first time, he's obviously in a Sidewinder at the moment. My wing-mate, Commander SockSeven, has been guiding him around in his Corvette to try and get some credits to get a new ship. His Sidewinder has been blown to bits by NPCs 10+ times now from interdictions, so many that he has lost the complimentary SRV bay! How on earth are people meant to get into the game? A new player should very rarely get interdicted and when they do, only with another very low-level ship, as a good way to introduce them to the interdiction mechanic and to help them learn the ways of combat. My wing-mate Commander SockSeven also recently purchased a Python to do some minding for materials for engineers. He sold the Python within a day because the NPC never left him alone. Mining was impossible. Again, interdictions from NPCs in heavily kitted ships gave him little chance of survival.

I understand the need for harder AI, but you shouldn't be forced into combat so often with ships you cannot win against while just flying around. It makes trading/mining too frustrating and has seriously put me, my friends and loads of community members off playing.

 

[manos70131]

I too find the new conditions unattractive so I have stopped playing the last 3 days till we get a clear view of what's happening with this game. I have one question though. How is it fair in any way for us that don't have the Engineers expansion to go against ships that do have it, even if we are on higher levels? I have fought several ships that seemed excessively agile and strong and I usually beat them (I have only lost one dogfight that my non-carrying-anything Cobra MKIII could not boost away from a diamondback scout even with 4 pips on my 4A thrusters). In the times I won, I picked up with my cargo scoop exotic equipment that the description mentioned they only be used by Engineers. I guess all these ships had Engineers enhancements. If I never get the Engineers expansion, I'll never get access to this kind of equipment. Is that fair for me? If we have only bought the original game and not the expansions, are we supposed to be cannon fodder for the engineered NPCs to have fun?

 

[Godtron]

It's funny because the games called Eliteangerous

It's been like flying with safety mode on until now. Now that it's actually Dangerous, everyone starts crying about not wanting to learn how to fly properly rather than trying to adapt to the new changes. Surely now we can get mad shield and thruster boosts as well to help against the NPC weapons?

It's too funny. Imho the game is more appealing now that it's difficult and the mission rewards are way better profit.

Now it's only solo mode and combat logging away from being a good space flight open world PvP MMO!! Lol

 

[Godnamedthor]

I'm done with this. Was so looking forward to Horizons. Now i see my account melt in rebuys and lost cargo.
Yesterday i was trading to get a few Millions and BANG. One interdiction later and i have less than before.
This is just frustrating.

 

[Godtron]

I'm done with this. Was so looking forward to Horizons. Now i see my account melt in rebuys and lost cargo.
Yesterday i was trading to get a few Millions and BANG. One interdiction later and i have less than before.
This is just frustrating.

Yeah man, those easy millions.... It's such a shame you can't just constantly make easy millions anymore. I totally feel your pain...

 

[Mosait]

What I've experienced so far is that the AI is challenging, but not impossible. I can still take out elites, but with more effort than before. I get interdicted when I'm hauling, but often evade interdiction about 90% of the time (even when the interdiction mini-game goes double vision). And when I do get interdicted, I'm able to break away back into SC or HW even against Elite.
I've been killed once so far, and that was prior to FD making the recent change to (mostly) remove NPC Engineer mods. But, that was bc I hesitated, and I was in a weak Cobra MK4, and the NPC's were a wing of Dangerous Viper MK3's.