'Attack of the AI' III

[frostypaw]

Keep in mind that there are undoubtedly many players who might vote too hard who are no longer here to vote, having been driven out of the game by the excessive AI difficulty.

That's extremely unlikely and you know it - this update's been around a couple of weeks, not months. They haven't left yet - they're still here complaining.

There are an uncounted number who left because they game was unchallenging and boring for them.

ps. still not lost a ship since first week of play, several million up since 2.1 - NOT an ace pilot.

 

[Colonel Kenney]

The results of these polls show exactly what the anatomy of the brain of the typical forum dweller here. Gluttons for punishment..

 

[Manticore]

If you claim an "Elite" rank in trading or exploration, that should also include a basic working knowledge of how to escape any dangerous situation.

Quoted for thruth.

You are so right. For smugglers running from interdiction (or avoiding them all together) is a required skill.

I see the AI/NPC Uprising seems to have been dialed back now.....

 

[Mohenjo]

No, they also had a choice too. Either adapt or leave. They choose second.

You assume everyone CAN adapt. Not everyone can.

 

[frostypaw]

In my mind the fundamental problem is that the AI is being allowed to ignore the limitations of the ships they're in.

A Cobra has a limited turn radius. It's only SO maneuverable. A Sidewinder has a SMALLER turn radius, it's MORE maneuverable. Despite this, my Sidewinder was EASILY outmaneuvered by a Cobra. AI guns do more damage than the same guns on a player ship. AI ships turn tighter than the same player ship can, run faster than the same player ship can, and so on.

That's not stronger AI, that's giving the NPCs magic ships with increased abilities. What SHOULD be happening is that the AI should be fighting SMARTER. The less maneuverable ships shouldn't be magically more maneuverable, they should be flying in a compensatory way. They should fly to their strengths, but still be limited by their weaknesses. Right now they don't do either, they're just magically more powerful.

This has been vehemently denied repeatedly by various members of FDev - I have no reason to call them liars.

I also find my experience in no way matches yours and I can out manoeuvre sideys and cobras in my asp if I'm sharp about it.

Conclusions? :/ I don't think people have mastered various aspects of flight - understanding how pips work, understanding the blue zone, understanding thrusters, understanding tactics - and I think people are willing to help, folk just have to be willing to listen and not scream BUG every time they lose a fight.

 

[SkyLeach]

AI skill isn't the problem, infinite spawn and AI inability to pilot their ships without ramming is.

 

[Mr T]

Does anyone have an understanding of how the AI matching works? I played the game last night and although I'm rated as "Novice" in combat ("Broker" in trading, "Surveyor" in exploration) I seem to only get interdicted by "Master" or "Dangerous" AI in better ships than mine. I would have had no chance against these guys before the 1.6 update but I would rarely see them then. Fortunately, I can run away from them in my A grade ASP without a scratch so I can't comment on just how good they are now.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

Does anyone have an understanding of how the AI matching works? I played the game last night and although I'm rated as "Novice" in combat ("Broker" in trading, "Surveyor" in exploration) I seem to only get interdicted by "Master" or "Dangerous" AI in better ships than mine. I would have had no chance against these guys before the 1.6 update but I would rarely see them then. Fortunately, I can run away from them in my A grade ASP without a scratch so I can't comment on just how good they are now.

The level of your opponent in mission interdiction is based on the mission level, not your combat level. So if you're taking Broker level missions, you're going to get AI around that rank (combat equivalent the mission's trading rank). Since you can take missions above your rank now, it's easy to accidentally take Tycoon level trading missions which are going to put the big boys on you almost as a guarantee.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

You assume everyone CAN adapt. Not everyone can.

In ED? Everyone can, at certain extend of course. However it is a choice do you really want to. It is entertainment and fun after all. If learning or adapting is not part of what you call "fun" then ED is most likely at dead end for you.

See, I don't say they have to make that choice. They don't want to, ok, that's fine. FD is not gonna revert back AI. They will tweak and polish. I hope they introduce NPC wingmen too in foreseeable future (as way to manage trading and other non-combat professions). Maybe it will be worth them to check game then.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

Well this has devolved completely into how creatively can forumites can write, "git gud". I'd say that sums up the bulk of the last three pages of comments.

 

[frostypaw]

Well this has devolved completely into how creatively can forumites can write, "git gud". I'd say that sums up the bulk of the last three pages of comments.

That's unfair. People are trying to be helpful - would you rather noone helped each other and the game was reduced to the lowest possible difficulty threshold?

Surely it's better that we all learn to play together?

 

[Mr T]

The level of your opponent in mission interdiction is based on the mission level, not your combat level. So if you're taking Broker level missions, you're going to get AI around that rank (combat equivalent the mission's trading rank). Since you can take missions above your rank now, it's easy to accidentally take Tycoon level trading missions which are going to put the big boys on you almost as a guarantee.

Oh Ok. So it's based on whatever rank is the highest? I suppose my trading rank (Broker) is what's getting me the higher ranked AI when I'm not doing missions? (I was doing legal trading)

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

Oh Ok. So it's based on whatever rank is the highest? I suppose my trading rank (Broker) is what's getting me the higher ranked AI when I'm not doing missions? (I was doing legal trading)

Closer but not exactly. The missions themselves have a rank. When you pull up a mission you'll see it (off to the left I believe). It's the mission rank that's important in terms of what kind of opposition you'll be facing.

Previously, it was this rank that gated off missions. Like, you couldn't take a Tycoon level trading mission if you were only a Broker. But now you can take those missions, and the risks associated with them.

 

[Flimley]

I'm hoping that ship launched fighters will be very good NPC helpers.
flimley

 

[Karl Marx]

I'm hoping that ship launched fighters will be very good NPC helpers.
flimley

I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Mr T]

Closer but not exactly. The missions themselves have a rank. When you pull up a mission you'll see it (off to the left I believe). It's the mission rank that's important in terms of what kind of opposition you'll be facing.

Previously, it was this rank that gated off missions. Like, you couldn't take a Tycoon level trading mission if you were only a Broker. But now you can take those missions, and the risks associated with them.

Yes, I understand what you're saying about missions. I've noticed you can do higher ranked missions if you have a close relationship to the faction so the AI will be based on that. The question I had was more about what happens when I'm not doing missions (just trading).

 

[Mohrgan]

To some the game already is what you are wishing for. I'm absolutely no ace, not interested in any kind of heroism and not feeling competitive at all with combat rank low expert (never grind this rank, comes mostly from self defence and the occasional fight out of curiosity). Yet the game is very survivable to me!

We should be very careful with generalizations. Would be much better to figure out where these extremely different experiences are coming from.

edit:
Just forgot to mention, I've read about the insane frequency of interdictions some of us receive. I assure you that *if* that would happen to me I'd be the first one coming here and start moaning cause that would be an absolute immersion killer to me. But that's simply not the case, not for me at least!

"To some". That's pretty vague as well. I can't see where suggesting that individual players gain more control over their experience is assuming anything.

 

[frostypaw]

"To some". That's pretty vague as well. I can't see where suggesting that individual players gain more control over their experience is assuming anything.

Who says they Don't have that choice and just don't know how to take it?

Last night and today I've been running missions for the Alioth Independents around there and I've not seen a single human being and not been interdicted once, it's been totally peaceful and nice - dived into some SS's for a fight or two, nothing too hairy - all fine.

Where are you trying to trade? Have you checked the system security around you? Are they at war? Are you in borderlands or deep controlled space? All of these things are factors in how you gain control over your experience - but when people suggest them we get told to go jump and shut up with our 'git gud'?

People want to help. There are ways other than breaking the game as some want to with artificial difficulty levels or the like. Hell there are people within a page of here asking "why aren't there like more difficult areas like y'know haz rez's and cz's where the bad stuff is?" That is EXACTLY what those places are! The devs agree with your idea so much it's been programmed into the game for a long time. If you're finding the whole system is like that then check and see if you're in a lawless anarchy system or one in a state of war and move......

 

[Cowboy Bats]

That's unfair. People are trying to be helpful - would you rather noone helped each other and the game was reduced to the lowest possible difficulty threshold?

Surely it's better that we all learn to play together?

I want to do my part to prod Frontier into making the game fun for everyone, not just the self-proclaimed "gud" players. If that means reducing the difficulty to the lowest possible threshold, then yes, yes I do. What I find offensive in the thread is the notion that some players are just deemed to be unfit by their so-called betters, and these same betters would just as soon their unfit brethren took a hike.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I start to wonder if you're actually playing the game or just hiding behind your oven while making up your mind from selected forum posts?

This is a colloquialism that I'm not familiar with. Hiding behind ovens? Is this a brit thing?

 

[Ozzie F Isaacs]

Why not let the individual have more control? You seek more of a combat challenge? Let the CZ's and RES's offer that challenge. Then you, all of us, would know exactly how to find it. This way there could be a true no-holds-barred experience in the Hazardous level sites, while open space can be more sedate for the more peace loving members of our community.

So they set the AI back what it was and I have to fly my hauler into a CZ or RES on the way to my destination to get some semblance of danger and excitement??? Er, no. How about you ask FD to improve the UI to help you keep to high-security systems, stop pirates going after empty/low value haulers, reduce spawns in high sec or improve the police response times.

You can haul food cartridges from planet to orbit or whatever, I'll ship high value minerals out of mining colonies or run guns to war-zones and all the well paying high risk stuff. It's you who is having the problem, it is you who should be having your game area constrained, not me.