Okay, thanks for the response, I hadn't considered that aspect of it and was coming from a PvE view
It's still a skill test against the AI too don't forget.
The manuverabilty "Blue Zone"
- Thread starter DukeIronHand
- Start date
It's still a skill test against the AI too don't forget.
We have an indicator - Full ENG pips displays 10 bars for the blue zone on the speed gauge, you fly the ship within the 5th bar for optimum turn rate. 2 pips you have 6 Bars, fly the ship dead center between those 6 bars, 0 pips in engines you have 3 bars. Once you are used to your ship you can fly it on numbers and feel.
@picommander - FA-OFF works the same as FA-ON, the Blue zone bars are there, it is based on total velocity not just forward velocity. Again you can fly it on numbers if you are used to your ship.
Meanwhile in keyboard land, I press a button to set the throttle to exactly 50% immediately.
Yeah but it's your actual speed at the time that matters, not what speed you asked for so when you start turning you're not going to be at 50% speed anymore. A player with direct throttle control can compensate for this by adjusting their throttle to remain at 50% actual speed.
And this is why I have hotkeys for....
50% Forward Throttle
50% Reverse Throttle
75% Forward Throttle (Supercruise blue zone)
Combined with my G13's analog thumbstick for twitch throttle control for both longitudinal and lateral thrust, rudder pedals & toe brakes for simultaneous analog and digital control of vertical thrusters (including simultaneous use of both up and down vertical thrusters).... I can out fly most people I face.
It makes me cringe when I see FD staff playing on XBox controllers on stream and how sluggish and slow their control of their craft is.
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Meanwhile in keyboard land, I press a button to set the throttle to exactly 50% immediately.
Oh wow! What a great idea! I have a spare button on my second joystick and setting one of them to cut throttle immediately has helped a lot, especially for landing or if I am currently reversing and want to throttle forwards asap.
Except you can turn faster if you also make use of the relevant thruster in addition to this location on the blue throttle section.
Define turn faster. If you're literally just talking about the rate your orientation changes that is entirely dependant on the blue zone only. If you're talking about the path you trace out as you're doing it, it's radius and how quickly that means you get a bead back on the opponent then you're right, multiple thrusters can help you optimise that, but it has nothing to do with turning the ship faster.
Bead back is what I meant, thanks Mike. After all, getting back to melt my target's shields is all I'm interested in anyhow
Exactly, that is why I think people have trouble with getting the best out of their ship or complain that the AI is cheating. In a turn against AI I am generally doing quite a few things at once to maintain the optimum speed, compensating for vertical or lateral thrust thrust along with the pitching, decelerating or accelerating the ship into the correct speed band, managing the speed into the turn.
Simply setting 50% is not efficient, cmdr's need to actively manage the speed.
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I beg to differ on the bolded part. That is of course if you count yaw and roll as thrust controls. I frequently out turn FDL's in my Python because of a very honed use of roll and yaw to amplify my turning speed.
Yaw? I guess you meant pitch and doubt you would outturn anything with the help of yaw!
Actually yaw and roll followed by pitch is my primary method, the amount of face palms I've had watching videos of guy's in certain ships simply pulling on the stick, not using all tools at their disposal.
Check many youtube videos, guy's pulling on the stick complaining that the ship is too slow... Generally those that complain about the Cutter & Python.
Good to see Arsen Cross understands the correct method, it frustrates me beyond belief watching some Python pilots on youtube
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Yaw? I guess you meant pitch and doubt you would outturn anything with the help of yaw!
Haha, no... I meant yaw. Pitch is a primary motivator to rotate your ship but you get much better control of your orientation if you combine pitch with yaw and roll simultaneously. It takes a bit of practice to actually get better turn speeds, and it's not much but I find it makes a drastic improvement on my ships agility.
I'd like to see this in action, as I was unable to outturn a Deadly NPC Anaconda the other day in my A-rate Python, no matter what combination of boost, FA-off, and lateral thrust in addition to holding down "pitch up" that I tried. I wound up jousting with it instead. (If I'd had beams instead of pulses installed on my class 2 slots, I'd probably have at least taken down its shields before I skidaddled, but I digress.)
Mike Evans, it's nice and all to keep things challenging, but doesn't this make life difficult for basic keyboard & mouse compared to joystick & throttle users? I only have so many available fingers....
edit: I'll confess that it's usually not that bad a problem, but...in the Python in particular...it'd be nice if it got a touch or two of better pitch rate. I heard it got reduced to 66% of what it once was when all other aspects of its maneuverability was reduced to 83%, so I'm inclined to believe I'm experiencing the lingering symptoms of a nerf-bat. Surely a minor, reasonable love tap would be alright these days.
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It is easily done using the correct method, I've posted videos of it being done in a T9, it would be a piece of cake doing it in my Python. Also you don't simply just hold pitch up, you adapt and vary according to opponents position using each thruster at the appropriate time.
I found testing these sorts of moves around asteroids with FA-On was of great benefit, and this translates well into combat when you need it. Yaw certainly helps gain an edge, as you're not coming out of the turn in the same direction as you entered it. Definitely worth checking out videos, as this explains it so much better than text.
Modifier keys are your friend. Elite supports ANY key as a modifier key. So you can have A+D need to be pushed simultaneously to make H activate your headlights if you so desired.
I have some videos on my youtube of me in combat... However I use turrets in my Python and typically try to orbit my opponents at a distance and reserve the aggressive high agility close range maneuvers for when I'm in trouble so my targets start to get lazy so you won't see a lot of that in my videos yet. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgpmevhzE7FGUQO1vMkAVqg
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...You can claim whatever you like, you're not showing me anything I can see with my own two eyes.
*Note: I spent months trading in a fully kitted Type 9 & defended myself from NPCs often during that time. Your claim is ludicrous. There's ways to make a Type 9 work in combat against more maneuverable opponents, but pretending it can outturn an FDL is a joke. Not to mention I didn't say "only holding pitch up", did you see the text about "boost, FA-off, and lateral thrust"?
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Wait, so even you are using turrets with the Python? I'm inclined to believe that reinforces the idea that its pitch rate is too low.
I have posted videos of the T9 in combat against multiple Anaconda's, Elite Vulture, Elite FAS, Elite Drop ship. All I need is to get the NPC in my sights to either destroy it or make it flee.
If you are simply getting into a constant vertical pitching battle with a more maneuverable ship, you are doing something wrong.
You say you are unable to outturn a deadly Anaconda whilst flying an A rated Python, I see you're unable to fly the ship. Please don't mention AI prior to 2.1, we all know it was terrible.
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Wait, so even you are using turrets with the Python? I'm inclined to believe that reinforces the idea that its pitch rate is too low.
Because it gives me the ability to control a fight. 90% of the people that I face try to brawl my Python at close range and get on my tail. I counter this by "hugging" them and match their maneuvers, keeping them directly on top of my Python for the entirety of the fight. They literally can not get away from me without disengaging, at which point I bring my fixed weapons to bear. Turrets let me constantly damage these people and at the range this is occurring chaff has absolutely no effect. You won't see this tactic on my videos yet because they are against skilled pilots that avoid this tactic. Eventually I'll capture footage of this tactic being used, but I don't have one yet because of the fact that I've only recently gotten my recording solutions in place.