The manuverabilty "Blue Zone"

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

Is the center of the, "Blue Zone," the same as 50% throttle? Does that vary by ship? Is there a command to put the throttle in the center of the, "Blue?" Can I automate that setting?

Yes, 50% throttle is always the centre of the blue zone, regardless of ship and regardless of current pip assignment. But 1 pip to engines blue zone is very very much worse than 4 pips to engines blue zone.

You have to remember that it's your actual speed that has to be in the blue zone... if you set your throttle at 50% forward and you were going full speed backwards in a Type 7, it's going to be a long while before you actually get back into the blue zone for manouevrability.

And yes, there's a bindable control in options for 50% throttle. I generally set my throttle in the blue zone and pulse forward and backwards thrust for minor acceleration/deceleration to control where actual speed is, so I don't use the key that much actually. I do have it bound though

 

[FiddenUK]

On the X55 joystick setup, Yaw is by default the twist of the joystick itself. You can see from 777's videos (when he stops head-tracking the target and making me feel dizzy), that when the ship he is engaged with goes past him, instead of pitching up/down to meet it, he is using a combination of pitch and yaw as he describes. This means that the target doesn't appear directly in front of him again, but off to left or right and still inside the V on the scope (about 50 seconds in on the vs FAS video).

 

[Arsen Cross]

Yawing back and force? You guys are confusing me to no end LOL! I always thought yaw is a horizontal movement, am I living on the moon?

edit:
I think I slowly start to understand, when you mean yaw in a combination with roll and pitch. I'm pretty much used to roll, pitch and side thrusters as I've learned early on that yaw is deliberately crippled mainly to bow for the original Elite flight model. And that's what I still see when I watch the axis separately in action. Need some testing this evening (I *love* to destroy old habits though). [yesnod]

lol... My "Yawing back and forth" comment is referring to interdiction... By yawing, then counter yawing appropriately you can more accurately keep your nose pointed at the escape vector/target. Use roll to aim where your yaw will take you and pitch to throw your nose away from the escape vector which accelerates your pitch speed during the interdiction so you can slingshot your nose back rapidly. Yaw for fine tune... Basically I took the usefulness topic for yaw to the interdiction mechanic. It's also fantastic in supercruise and I use it a lot to bleed speed and increase my turn radius when approaching stations.

I'm not asking for the ability to stay on an Anaconda's tail all day; I *am* saying the Python oughta be able to at least keep up with an NPC Anaconda without me having to be the most elite HOTAS-equipped virtual ace jockey of the galaxy.
<snip>
As a left-handed player, it's rather uncomfortable. Managing pips on the fly, moment by moment, is not possible for me - I have to juggle, sometimes little bits at a time. Bottom line is that max-performance-all-the-time precision is not happening for me.

Lefty? I recommend you pick up one of these... Hell, grab two. They are $30 each and ambidextrous. It's a Cyborg V.1 joystick. I use one on my right hand. If you use modifiers you can do some really awesome stuff. I read post from a guy who used two in Elite a year or more ago but I can't find the thread. He absolutely loved it and you can do some pretty gnarly setups with two of them together.

As a side note, I've had mine for a few years now. It spent about 2-3 years in general electronics "dump" box with the stick and base not even so the stick was constantly pitched while stored. It still works perfectly. I have no idea if the new "Mad Catz" branded version is just as durable or not.

Spoiler

Is the center of the, "Blue Zone," the same as 50% throttle? Does that vary by ship? Is there a command to put the throttle in the center of the, "Blue?" Can I automate that setting?

Yes, the center of the blue zone is 50% throttle. It is always 50% throttle, regardless of ship. Hotkeys are available for 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% throttle in both forward and reverse within the games settings.

The blue zone in normal flight is 50% on both forward and reverse. In supercruise it's 75% forward. I have all 3 hotkeyed.

 

[clinton]

Yeah but it's your actual speed at the time that matters, not what speed you asked for so when you start turning you're not going to be at 50% speed anymore. A player with direct throttle control can compensate for this by adjusting their throttle to remain at 50% actual speed.

By "speed" does this only mean absolute velocity? As in, say if Xm/s is the "blue zone" when moving forwards, is turning speed maximised when moving Xm/s laterally or Xm/s backwards?

And whilst I know FA OFF slightly increases your rotation rates, is the maximum rotation rate velocity still the same as it is with FA ON?

 

[Karla]

Lefty? I recommend you pick up one of these... Hell, grab two. They are $30 each and ambidextrous. It's a Cyborg V.1 joystick. I use one on my right hand. If you use modifiers you can do some really awesome stuff. I read post from a guy who used two in Elite a year or more ago but I can't find the thread. He absolutely loved it and you can do some pretty gnarly setups with two of them together.

I'm right handed and chose the Cyborg V.1 joystick for my second joystick in my left hand because it's ambidextrous. The shift key is extremely useful as well. I've doubled up all the buttons on that joystick because of it and can access certain functions extremely quickly, e.g. sub targetting the power plant. It was very important to me that my hands don't have to reach for the keyboard during combat. I use the hat on the Cyborg for throttle and this took a lot of getting used to. If I continue throttling down then I go smoothly into reverse. I use the Cyborg for lateral and vertical thrust to position my ship, and pitch and yaw on the right hand joystick to orient myself to point towards them.

I use the Thrustmaster T.Flight Stick X for my main joystick on my right hand.

Another problem I had to deal with was sticking the joysticks down. It had to be comfortable. With a single joystick I'd use the other hand to hold it down. I now have them both stuck to a cutting board with velcro tape that I sit on my lap.

It took a long while to make the transition to this setup, especially with controlling my forward thrust, but it was always fun. Wing mates have told me that my ship moves around in a very weird way.

 

[wstephenson]

The accepted logic is all ships maneuver better in the throttle area "blue zone."
The center of the blue zone is a brighter blue then the rest so....is my manuverabilty better in the center of the blue zone or is my ship just as handy anywhere in the blue zone?
The speed difference between the top and bottom of this blue zone can be substantial hence the question.

Years ago, someone heroic (Kremmen?) did the science and plotted speed vs turn rate, and the graphs showed an inverted V shape with a steeper 'steeple' at exactly 50% speed, giving you bonus manoeuvrability if you can nail it precisely.

 

[EdzUp]

The centre of the blue zone is for immediate better turn rates there is less maneuvers in a navy zone.

The red zone has never been for loading or unloading there is no stopping in the white zone

 

[FiddenUK]

The centre of the blue zone is for immediate better turn rates there is less maneuvers in a navy zone.

The red zone has never been for loading or unloading there is no stopping in the white zone

You'll get a fine in the yellow zone

 

[Karla]

You'll get a fine in the yellow zone

And it gets really homoerotic in the Danger zone.

 

[Jpotter]

So since optimum speed is the center of the 'blue zone' is there a key bind to set the speed to this? (I can't check now as I'm at work)

 

[777Driver]

By "speed" does this only mean absolute velocity? As in, say if Xm/s is the "blue zone" when moving forwards, is turning speed maximised when moving Xm/s laterally or Xm/s backwards?

And whilst I know FA OFF slightly increases your rotation rates, is the maximum rotation rate velocity still the same as it is with FA ON?

You only have to focus on the optimum speed, this applies to any maneuver - Drifting sideways/flying backwards etc etc, the optimum speed can be achieved through a combination of forward/vertical/lateral velocities combined.

FA-OFF provides a faster initial acceleration into Roll/Yaw/Pitch, from that point onwards you are limited to a maximum rate that is the same as FA-ON.

 

[Karla]

I have to say this has been a really useful thread. I was just making sure to stay in the blue zone and did wonder if it mattered much if I was in the top end or the middle.

 

[clinton]

You only have to focus on the optimum speed, this applies to any maneuver - Drifting sideways/flying backwards etc etc, the optimum speed can be achieved through a combination of forward/vertical/lateral velocities combined.

FA-OFF provides a faster initial acceleration into Roll/Yaw/Pitch, from that point onwards you are limited to a maximum rate that is the same as FA-ON.

I'd still like the dev to confirm the first point, particularly because I've seen evidence by CMDR Thorrn on twitch that the second isn't true (it involved a lot of testing, spreadsheets and counting frames of recordings).

Also because if your velocity vector is not relevant, then your blue zone with FA ON in reverse will be 83.3% throttle, as max speed in reverse is 60% normal speed so the 50% blue zone speed is actually 83.3% of your maximum reverse speed. Is that the case or does your velocity vector effect your blue zone?

 

[Alexander the Grape]

From my testing, it's absolute speed that matters, not relative

Also the degrees per second graph looks like a mountain (linear relationship up to blue zone speed, linear relationship down)

 

[Kaybe]

This is why I really love my Thrustermaster T Flight Hotas X. There's a solid click in the exact middle to make it really easy to hit that center blue zone spot.

It should also be noted that some ships depend on that blue zone much much more than others. It's especially noticeable in the Python which pitches over *3 times* as slow at full speed as she does at half speed. Whereas other ships like FAS are still really agile at full speed.

Testing has been done on all the ships by community member Cliffson. This is pretty much required reading in my opinion, and an amazing asset to knowing exactly where the weak and strong points of your ship are:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=182465

 

[Parmo]

And this is why I have hotkeys for....

50% Forward Throttle
50% Reverse Throttle
75% Forward Throttle (Supercruise blue zone)

Combined with my G13's analog thumbstick for twitch throttle control for both longitudinal and lateral thrust, rudder pedals & toe brakes for simultaneous analog and digital control of vertical thrusters (including simultaneous use of both up and down vertical thrusters).... I can out fly most people I face.

It makes me cringe when I see FD staff playing on XBox controllers on stream and how sluggish and slow their control of their craft is.

I have a G13 but in Win 7 64bit pro the analogue thumbstick is not seen in the Control Panel Joystick properties; the G13 software does not see them either, only as digital. Everything else works fine, keys, buttons etc.
I don't know if there is a conflict somewhere with the X52 pro and it's crappy drivers / software.
I'm interested in your setup in this respect.

 

[Andargor]

The centre of the blue zone is for immediate better turn rates there is less maneuvers in a navy zone.

The red zone has never been for loading or unloading there is no stopping in the white zone

Damn you, I was going to post that

 

[Ziljan]

In a turn against AI I am generally doing quite a few things at once to maintain the optimum speed, compensating for vertical or lateral thrust thrust along with the pitching, decelerating or accelerating the ship into the correct speed band, managing the speed into the turn.

Simply setting 50% is not efficient, cmdr's need to actively manage the speed.

Yes exactly!

And when you use flight pedals it gets even more interesting I actually mapped "Roll" to the pedal axis and side thrusters to the toe brakes. +/-Vertical thrust is mapped to the twist in my joystick. Needless to say, combat is a delicately orchestrated full body activity. A literal dance (or "spasm") if you will

 

[Jex =TE=]

If you are so fortunately endowed, shall I make a GoFundMe page and let you throw your money at me?
Personally I'd like to continue this discussion without shrugging off any & all players with no means to obtain virtual cockpits.
I do have a gamepad, but I'm not particularly fond of it, as it requires two hands and restricts the ability to reach the keyboard.

In what universe can you not afford a £40 joystick but can afford another £300 of season passes? I answered your post because it's not out of reach to get a JS because you have this issue....

Exactly why I'm complaining that my fingers are only able to do so much in a given moment of time during combat using a keyboard & mouse.

It's a worthy challenge, but having the AI essentially cheat to be better at it than I can ever hope to be is...disheartening.

I use a really old stick, a sidewinder precision pro 2 from microsoft (and anyone that remembers that might laugh but it still works pretty much perfectly) it's not a hotas but has enough buttons I can use most of the KB. What I can do it track anything with precision at max laser range - it's a better control device than a M&K. The yaw is a twist on the stick and after only a few hours of practice you'll probably never fly again without one

 

[Jex =TE=]

And it gets really homoerotic in the Danger zone.

Grease that highway!