Engineer grind, thanks FD for making ED dull :(

[vermu]

You must be pretty lucky with the RNG.
I've done a fair bit of material grinding, and I've seen no arsenic, one Heat Conduction Wiring, zero Specialised Legacy Firmware, and zero Modular Terminals. So I could manage exactly one of the upgrades you have achieved.
I've had to throw away 400+ materials, as I have long ago reached the 600 limit. I have 30 tons of mission and mined commodities that I mostly can't use yet.
I've managed a coupl of extremely rare data items that engineers don't want.
I can't upgrade anything useful to me.
.
So what am I suppossed to do?
I'll go to a couple of engineers and get some upgrades I don't need or want and discard them.
But I know full well that as soon as I throw away most of this junk, I'll suddenly find the pieces of the puzzle that I'm currently mission and then find the ones I just threw to be the impossible ones to find.
.
I'm not enjoying this RNG "gameplay".

I can see that getting materials from missions is way easier after restart. Now I am not after just one material cause I won't be seeing engineers shortly. I have done missions to get credits so I can outfit my cobra better. I got arsenic and other stuff as side bonus. So I am not doing missions for engineer stuff but for credits. When I was in my python I tried missions just for the engineer rewards and that stuff is not so fun cause you don't need the credits anymore, your only goal is to get engineer stuff. It's much more relaxed now and I can see this system works quite well with the fresh start. Let's say a bit better

 

[Minoo Minou]

I can see that getting materials from missions is way easier after restart. Now I am not after just one material cause I won't be seeing engineers shortly. I have done missions to get credits so I can outfit my cobra better. I got arsenic and other stuff as side bonus. So I am not doing missions for engineer stuff but for credits. When I was in my python I tried missions just for the engineer rewards and that stuff is not so fun cause you don't need the credits anymore, your only goal is to get engineer stuff. It's much more relaxed now and I can see this system works quite well with the fresh start. Let's say a bit better

Exactly what I'm doing! Except for the restart. Credits are always needed.

 

[Kylby36]

Except... they haven't. Choosing to grind is entirely up to you. You do not need engineer upgrades.

A feature shouldn't appeal to a small group of people who (for god knows what reason) like to grind. It should appeal to everyone. If you WANT the upgrades, you shouldn't have to bore yourself to death to get them. Actually, for any feature that is introduced in a game, you should never have to bore yourself with. It's a game, not a job.

Is it not obvious to you why basically no one participates in PowerPlay? People won't participate in this for the same reason.


The problem in this game is that you get rewards for doing boring things. Seems like FD thinks rewards are fun, rather than the activity that gets you the reward


I'd rather play a game that gives me 20,000 credits for an intense, excitement-filled mission.. Rather than 20 million credits for going from one station to another. Boring.

 

[Boomer Kay]

If you WANT the upgrades, you shouldn't have to bore yourself to death to get them.

This game is about flying spaceships.
You gather materials by .. flying spaceships (and the dreaded moonbuggy... wonderning if my old steering wheel would work with that .. mmmm.. )
If you get bored flying spaceships, how else would you like to get the mats? Guitar Hero Interludes?

 

[Kylby36]

This game is about flying spaceships.
You gather materials by .. flying spaceships (and the dreaded moonbuggy... wonderning if my old steering wheel would work with that .. mmmm.. )
If you get bored flying spaceships, how else would you like to get the mats? Guitar Hero Interludes?

Well part of it has to do with what you mentioned. Flying space ships. Space is very large, very empty... The only scenery we are offered to do our tasks in are airless planets (Which btw don't have any real purpose other than collecting materials) and asteroid belts... Not much to offer. Give more scenery, such as the huge tower from the planet into an asteroid belt in space like in CQC. That would be a good start.

 

[Privata]

Its almost as if you are asking crazy engineers to make dangerous and risky upgrades to your ship and that they want something in return... wierd

 

[Ozzie F Isaacs]

Then if there are alternatives that is good (not seen it myself yet but I will make a special effort to check next week) and I will withdraw myself from the discussion.

Thank you Ozzie.

No bother, as it happens just seen one about 10 mins ago, so not that rare, think it was a low level salvage contract.. I'm assuming higher level ones will probably yield the rarer elements.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

This game is about flying spaceships.
You gather materials by .. flying spaceships (and the dreaded moonbuggy... wonderning if my old steering wheel would work with that .. mmmm.. )
If you get bored flying spaceships, how else would you like to get the mats? Guitar Hero Interludes?

Something a little less RNG would help.
e.g. Mission offer: "I hear you are looking for some exquisite focus crystals. The dread pirate lord [insert NPC name] just upgraded his new Anaconda, so looting the remains of his ship should solve your problem."

 

[Boomer Kay]

Something a little less RNG would help.
e.g. Mission offer: "I hear you are looking for some exquisite focus crystals. The dread pirate lord [insert NPC name] just upgraded his new Anaconda, so looting the remains of his ship should solve your problem."

So everyone flocks to the same missiongivers, does the same missions and ends up with the same ships again. Remember Robigo? 17 Draconis?
It's probably a lot less "random" than we have the impression at the moment. Stuff just has not been discovered yet, so that's why gathering data and identifying good areas to hunt for elusive materials is so important.
It's a meta-coop game.
Updating the eddb network with data from 400-500k from drop-in stations has long become one of my "side activities" and I always pat myself on the shoulder when I've added another piece of the huge puzzle by updating data that's months old - it's even nicer with the more dynamic economy, since that data might help someone to discover a profitable in-system trading route far away from the mainstream.
As a "single player game" experience, stumbling around the huge galaxy, trying to figure stuff out all by yourself it's a pretty poor experience. It's just not set up that way.

 

[Spacecat]

Implement it immediately and watch the joy.

Lol, that's what everybody says about everything.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Im a little speechless. No inventory storage after the inventory patch... That's like selling a car by its safety features on the one hand, and on the other, popping in claymores instead of airbags...

Oh wait.

I was joking, but, yeah.

 

[Pumabear8]

Something a little less RNG would help.
e.g. Mission offer: "I hear you are looking for some exquisite focus crystals. The dread pirate lord [insert NPC name] just upgraded his new Anaconda, so looting the remains of his ship should solve your problem."

Yup, make it difficult but exciting, that's entertainment in my opinion, not the current RNG grind.

 

[jmp470]

The grind isn't so bad to be honest. Its the same for almost every MMO out there, they all have their own long grind and time investment. The only difference being those MMOs allow players to spend real life cash to progress in game and skip the grind while ED puts out a fair playing field for everyone.

No one is forcing you to grind, you can take it easy. You'll still reach your goal but just slightly later. Besides, i'm pretty sure FD will fine tune the grinding mechanic later on, make it easier to find the materials, increase drop rate etc.

Actually, the grind is NOT fair.... Some people have more time than money, others more money than time... So saying that they are leveling the playing field to time, only looks at half the population.... so how exactly is that fair?

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Yup, make it difficult but exciting, that's entertainment in my opinion, not the current RNG grind.

Exactly. We could even have a choice of mission methods that suit our playstyle. Planet X needs 5,000 tons of medicines, infiltrate base Y, explore system Z - 900ly away. By all means keep the existing RNG method as well, but supliment it with other ways that are more engaging. We can but hope.

 

[Pumabear8]

Exactly. We could even have a choice of mission methods that suit our playstyle. Planet X needs 5,000 tons of medicines, infiltrate base Y, explore system Z - 900ly away. By all means keep the existing RNG method as well, but supliment it with other ways that are more engaging. We can but hope.

I've put 1000s of hours into other games, and when I look back on then, I did a hell of a lot "grinding"; but it didn't feel like grinding because I was having so much fun; oh, and the end results in most cases didn't rely on the roll of a dice.

 

[Spacecat]

Translates: "Second quarter 2018" LOL

Lol, it'll be included in the season 3 pass.

 

[deathcoy]

Actually, the grind is NOT fair.... Some people have more time than money, others more money than time... So saying that they are leveling the playing field to time, only looks at half the population.... so how exactly is that fair?

Well, there is truth in that. The gaming scene has evolved a lot over the years.

In the early days of MMO gaming, late 80s to early 90s, the grind was considered fair as there was no hardline cash shop option nor any RMT blackmarket. You guys remember those good ol' days?
Nowadays however, MMOs and games in general have been corrupted and plagued by such pay to win or pay to progress models. Personally i do not support the emergence of such models.

Elite Dangerous has so far stayed away from such gaming infrastructure thats why there are no direct player trading, no full blown player controlled economy, no dedicated mega server and no p2w/p2p cashshop nor any forced competitive mechanics etc, at least not yet. I am happy they did so, as you can tell i am not a fan of p2w, p2p. Its good to know that so far right now FD does not intend to encourage p2w, p2p gameplay.

I, like many others are your average salaryman with 2-3 hrs to play per day or sometimes 0 hrs even and i'm certain i'm at a disadvantaged compared to the younger generation still in school or other players with more flexible jobs. But i can assure you in a p2w/p2p environment, real life money gives so much more advantage than time, money > time in games. For instance, grinding for a legendary armor will require an investment of 50 hours or you can just acquire it via purchasing gold through the cashshop or RMT(which is usually cheaper) for $300 which is equivalent to 2-3 days of worktime at your job of 9 hrs a day thus a person who does not pay has to grind 50 hours but a person who pays only has to grind at work for 18-27 hours. This is how p2w, p2p games survive. They have to make money > time otherwise no one will spend on the game. They constantly need people playing the game and spend on the game. They need free players to grind for the paying players while all they do is introduce more grind to keep everyone too heavily invested in the game to leave. The disparity between gamers who have money and those who do not will be much, much larger than compared to the resource 'time'. Sure FD can remove the grind, spoon feed players but the longevity of the game will be adversely affected as will its future development and ultimately the game might even shut down as it lacks any form of holding power on the players, very little players can find reason to invest into the game in the long run. Or FD can go the p2w/p2p route...

I take it you are an avid supporter and participant of pay 2 win, pay 2 progress?

 

[Jex =TE=]

Yea, and this has been heaviely criticized since way before I joined these boards.
"everything is the same, there's no special rewards, effort does not get rewarded .. blabla"

There's two things in life you're forced to .. death and taxes .. ED has neither.

You're not forced into taxes.

 

[Kyokushin]

Except... they haven't. Choosing to grind is entirely up to you. You do not need engineer upgrades.

He also do not need to play ED at all.

 

[jmp470]

Well, there is truth in that. The gaming scene has evolved a lot over the years.

In the early days of MMO gaming, late 80s to early 90s, the grind was considered fair as there was no hardline cash shop option nor any RMT blackmarket. You guys remember those good ol' days?
Nowadays however, MMOs and games in general have been corrupted and plagued by such pay to win or pay to progress models. Personally i do not support the emergence of such models.

Elite Dangerous has so far stayed away from such gaming infrastructure thats why there are no direct player trading, no full blown player controlled economy, no dedicated mega server and no p2w/p2p cashshop nor any forced competitive mechanics etc, at least not yet. I am happy they did so, as you can tell i am not a fan of p2w, p2p. Its good to know that so far right now FD does not intend to encourage p2w, p2p gameplay.

I, like many others are your average salaryman with 2-3 hrs to play per day or sometimes 0 hrs even and i'm certain i'm at a disadvantaged compared to the younger generation still in school or other players with more flexible jobs. But i can assure you in a p2w/p2p environment, real life money gives so much more advantage than time, money > time in games. For instance, grinding for a legendary armor will require an investment of 50 hours or you can just acquire it via purchasing gold through the cashshop or RMT(which is usually cheaper) for $300 which is equivalent to 2-3 days of worktime at your job of 9 hrs a day thus a person who does not pay has to grind 50 hours but a person who pays only has to grind at work for 18-27 hours. This is how p2w, p2p games survive. They have to make money > time otherwise no one will spend on the game. They constantly need people playing the game and spend on the game. They need free players to grind for the paying players while all they do is introduce more grind to keep everyone too heavily invested in the game to leave. The disparity between gamers who have money and those who do not will be much, much larger than compared to the resource 'time'. Sure FD can remove the grind, spoon feed players but the longevity of the game will be adversely affected as will its future development and ultimately the game might even shut down as it lacks any form of holding power on the players, very little players can find reason to invest into the game in the long run. Or FD can go the p2w/p2p route...

I take it you are an avid supporter and participant of pay 2 win, pay 2 progress?

Actually, No, I'm not!

But, currently, FD's policies favor players that can spend all day playing the game, where as, other players are hampered by said policies.

Why is maximizing a players time in game considered spoon feeding? Many people on the forum assume this and are completely wrong.....

The game should be challenging, and rewarding... HOWEVER, jumping 100 times at 45 seconds or 1 minute per jump is neither.... Additionally, penalizing a players time because they prefer certain ships or game play styles is simply counter productive, in a good game. Unfortunately, it is exactly where FD is NOT headed with ED.

Moreover, if I was to sign on now and start running missions, where I'm all over the bubble, but then my friend signs off and I'm 300 LY away... I cannot simply go play the game with my friend... I have to waste my time and meet up with him/her. Additionally, many ships are not designed to partake in the games expansion and are left behind. Thus, in order to engage in many of the engineers upgrades you have to grind out missions with certain ships.....

All of which are counter intuitive to entertainment, IMO!

The truth of the matter is that

In engineers, what I was hoping for was a better way to maximize time, not be pampered.... So many peop