The Star Citizen Thread v5

[dsmart]

If you insist on posting about the warlord at least make sure you don't miss the interesting stuff at the bottom...

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/9X1GqR4.png

yeah, especially when the end result is that a bunch of dimwits on Reddit got hilariously schooled, leading to them deleting the entire thread because we simply couldn't stop laughing at them

http://i.imgur.com/Rf2lx9Q.png

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/746033759166799872

 

[bitstorm]

It's official. The CIG "Marketing Team" (quotes in purpose) is already spreading the word with the new estimated delivery date of 2017, earlier 2018.

http://massivelyop.com/2016/06/21/star-citizen-changes-refund-clause-for-new-backers-plans-procedurally-generated-planets-for-2-7/?lf-content=167090177%3A529545977&hubRefSrc=permalink

So is Squadron 42 till 2016? Or has this date been revised too?

This is the most interesting thing IMHO.

SC, who cares, it's now so far off.

CIG have no publisher pressure due to Kickstarter, but with COD:IW & the new Mass Effect on the way there now is publisher pressure for CIG to complete Sq42. (Activision & Electronic Arts, release dates Q4 2016 & Q1 2017)

Is sink or swim time AFAICS.

 

[dsmart]

Do tell, it will be between you and the internet

It involves a bungalow, a hooker, blood, and a midget.

You're laughing?

 

[Ozram]

So is Squadron 42 till 2016? Or has this date been revised too?

This is the most interesting thing IMHO.

SC, who cares, it's now so far off.

CIG have no publisher pressure due to Kickstarter, but with COD:IW & the new Mass Effect on the way there definitely is publisher pressure for CIG to complete Sq42.

Is sink or swim time AFAICS.

Sort of sink or swim. It looks like the hardest work they've been doing is shoring up their money so I imagine CR and Actress have quite a bit of it in "salary" (anyone know how much they skim of the top for their "pay"?). As previously mentioned the few refunds managed to be yanked from CIGs greedy maw have come from a variety of places (not where they were originally sent to) so I gather that's the real work being done, not the "game". Have I put enough quotes? This whole shabang is so "quasi".

 

[lysan]

It involves a bungalow, a hooker, blood, and a midget.

You're laughing?

LMAO, Oh man don't put these pictures in my head, sounds tempting

Sorry I don't have photoshop skills, but if I had, your face would be there LOL!

 

[Osmanthus]

For a long time, CIG had only marginal promises to worry about: "all" they had to do was deliver a game which only marginally matched its promises. A game, you know, a passable-to-mediocre one, with janky animations but hey, at least it's in the reasonably good-looking Cryengine 3 and, you know, it has a story. There would be outrage from some quarters, but the game would eventually fall into obscurity, notable only for its huge crowdfunding campaign.

Now, here is CoD: IW, and ME:A, and suddenly it has pressure on both time and quality. Promised release dates aside, if these other games release first they steal the thunder CIG worked so hard to trap. That's one thing - but the quality will be the killer. If SC, if SQ42, release, then suddenly the public, with these other two games on the one hand, are confronted with Wing-Commander-Movie levels of script quality, janky animations, an almost certain plethora of bugs (although who knows), and graphics that we can only, depressingly, call dated because they didn't know how to make the engine really shine (or maybe it's just old...)

Star Citizen will not fade into obscurity: it will become notable not just for its huge crowdfunding game but for how little it had to show for it. That would have been one thing without these other games, but they provide a 'length scale' that shows just how far short CIG has fallen. CIG will face not obscurity, but humiliation.

 

[Darkpriest667]

As a gamer I give a stuff about games, and discuss them warts and all. I want games to be good, I don't want games to be inaccurately advertised and I don't want gamers to be ripped off. As a space-game fan I don't want the genre killed (again) by a massive record-breaking expensive flop. I do this on gaming forums, like this one.

I think car's are bad for the environment, gun's kill people and members of the public don't need them, capitalism is short shortsightedness of the most damaging kind and most sports are an outlet for xenophobic tribalism. But I discuss them in other non-gaming forums, or dedicated threads in gaming forums as it's off-topic here.

This is the star citizen thread of a games forum, it's exactly the right place for criticism of star citizen.

Star Citizen is a very extreme example of run away crowd funding, scope creep, development hell, toxic community and a horrific lack of planning. This isn't a result of the industry being evil or capitalist pig-dogs conspiring it's just a very badly managed development process.

That is the understatement of the century.


It's also a very good example of the cult of personality.

 

[PiLhEaD]

So is Squadron 42 till 2016? Or has this date been revised too?....

If COD is likely this year, then unless they are super confident that their product can go toe to toe, on all fronts, then I really think RSI might be better off avoiding launching too close to CoD, and pushing it out to 2017.

Better to disappoint and hear the moaning, rather than having your game marked poorly in comparison to the opposition and the future funding evaporate.

Of course,.if they have the product, then they've no need to worry.

 

[bitstorm]

If COD is likely this year, then unless they are super confident that their product can go toe to toe, on all fronts, then I really think RSI might be better off avoiding launching too close to CoD, and pushing it out to 2017.

Better to disappoint and hear the moaning, rather than having your game destroyed by the opposition and the future funding evaporate.

Of course,.if they have the product, then they've no need to worry.

Yeah, I can't help feeling Sq42 Q2 2017.

Mass Effect is Q1 2017, but of course there's a risk *that* will be delayed so who knows.

But I'm thinking CIG announce delay to Q2 2017, but internally that will be tentative, with a risk they'll delay further.

 

[Adept]

Sort of sink or swim. It looks like the hardest work they've been doing is shoring up their money so I imagine CR and Actress have quite a bit of it in "salary" (anyone know how much they skim of the top for their "pay"?). As previously mentioned the few refunds managed to be yanked from CIGs greedy maw have come from a variety of places (not where they were originally sent to) so I gather that's the real work being done, not the "game". Have I put enough quotes? This whole shabang is so "quasi".

Developer hours and office rental adds up though. Surely they've actually burnt through quite a lot on those things (and a lot more on the mocap and CGI for the cinematics).

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LMAO, Oh man don't put these pictures in my head, sounds tempting

Sorry I don't have photoshop skills, but if I had, your face would be there LOL!
http://www.movie2u.pw/wp-content/up...--1996--hd-720p-|-full-movie-online-11398.jpg

Of all the possible pictures you managed to pull out one translated into Finnish. I guess we really were massively overrepresented on the internet back in the day.

 

[lysan]

Developer hours and office rental adds up though. Surely they've actually burnt through quite a lot on those things (and a lot more on the mocap and CGI for the cinematics).

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Of all the possible pictures you managed to pull out one translated into Finnish. I guess we really were massively overrepresented on the internet back in the day.

Cheesy but great movie back then, actually was tempting to watch it again LOL!
Angie Everheart was super smokin HOT as Lilith.

 

[Discourse]

Sorry to break it to you, bud, but that's 100% false. All of it. In fact, I had the story in my latest blog - for context - but removed it because I felt it had no place being in it. And even though I had a trace hint left, my Good advisers suggested that I remove the whole thing.

That's the thing with "stuff at work"; as long as more than one person knows, it's getting out - eventually.

If it's all the same I'll go with Mark on this one as he is probably the best source to know why he left, unless you have any evidence you wish to present to the contrary? You are entitled to your opinion but if you intend to state it as fact then you have to present evidence to back it up which you haven't done in your comment above.
In your latest blog you infer that the departure of Mark and Johnathan Dadley as a sign that they are getting out before CIG collapses -
"And some very talented people keep jumping out of the talent pool. Just last month, the much loved Mark Skelton resigned; Jonathan Dadley (yet another talented senior designer) is reported as also gone this month. And according to sources, several other high-profile (there is one particular person who, if/when he does leave, they should just shut everything down – immediately) team members are on the way out. While Chris and his friends are reportedly trying to entice and keep talent by offering copious amounts of money, they’re being laughed at and derided for the massive failure that he has turned the project into. In the coming months, my guess is that key people will continue to leave because, let’s face it, who wants to be part of this     -show when it collapses?"
In reality both guys have left for perfectly valid reasons that have nothing to do with the state of SC's development or its impending collapse.
Mark left because of the travel - https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/330905/gold-shirt-goodbye/p1
Jon left to pursue another role more in line with his interests - https://twitter.com/JonDadley/status/745897657135206400
In fact you have been implying that CIG are going to collapse since at least the departure of Travis Day in June 2015. He left to become a Senior Producer at Blizzard, also a perfectly valid reason for leaving that has nothing to do with CIG collapsing.

 

[Komemiute]

If it's all the same I'll go with Mark on this one as he is probably the best source to know why he left, unless you have any evidence you wish to present to the contrary? You are entitled to your opinion but if you intend to state it as fact then you have to present evidence to back it up which you haven't done in your comment above.
In your latest blog you infer that the departure of Mark and Johnathan Dadley as a sign that they are getting out before CIG collapses -
"And some very talented people keep jumping out of the talent pool. Just last month, the much loved Mark Skelton resigned; Jonathan Dadley (yet another talented senior designer) is reported as also gone this month. And according to sources, several other high-profile (there is one particular person who, if/when he does leave, they should just shut everything down – immediately) team members are on the way out. While Chris and his friends are reportedly trying to entice and keep talent by offering copious amounts of money, they’re being laughed at and derided for the massive failure that he has turned the project into. In the coming months, my guess is that key people will continue to leave because, let’s face it, who wants to be part of this -show when it collapses?"
In reality both guys have left for perfectly valid reasons that have nothing to do with the state of SC's development or its impending collapse.
Mark left because of the travel - https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/330905/gold-shirt-goodbye/p1
Jon left to pursue another role more in line with his interests - https://twitter.com/JonDadley/status/745897657135206400
In fact you have been implying that CIG are going to collapse since at least the departure of Travis Day in June 2015. He left to become a Senior Producer at Blizzard, also a perfectly valid reason for leaving that has nothing to do with CIG collapsing.

To be honest, Discourse- anyone leaving a job and hoping to stay in the same field would NEVER bite the hand that fed them...
A graceful exeunt is always classy...

 

[Discourse]

To be honest, Discourse- anyone leaving a job and hoping to stay in the same field would NEVER bite the hand that fed them...
A graceful exeunt is always classy...

I would agree with that; you should never bad mouth previous employers. What I take issue with is people making statements without any proof, it serves no purpose but to start rumours and cause bad blood between people.

 

[idkmybffjill]

To be honest, Discourse- anyone leaving a job and hoping to stay in the same field would NEVER bite the hand that fed them...
A graceful exeunt is always classy...

Except, no one forced people like Jon Dadley to come out and speak against the allegations. He did it of his own accord because he felt that he was being used and misrepresented in a psycho's narrative, which is the case. That's also why DS is so threatened by him and is now going to dedicate an entire section of his next blog to this one supposedly talented senior developer yet insignificant person.

 

[Ozram]

Developer hours and office rental adds up though. Surely they've actually burnt through quite a lot on those things (and a lot more on the mocap and CGI for the cinematics).

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Of all the possible pictures you managed to pull out one translated into Finnish. I guess we really were massively overrepresented on the internet back in the day.

Yes, I'm sure you're right about that too, not to mention all the ship revisions and other wasted efforts (illfonic).

 

[ghcannon]

And so many studios ... man .. my mind fails to comprehend .. why so many studios? The overhead, expenses & extra bureaucracy is crazy. Why not play it safe and have a medium-sized focused 'task force' group for the project? It'll make sure there's funding for a lot longer.

Since the very beginning it's boggled me that a crowdfunded startup has 300 employees in 4 world locations. I know Europe-US flights aren't that cheap also.

 

[Discourse]

And so many studios ... man .. my mind fails to comprehend .. why so many studios? The overhead, expenses & extra bureaucracy is crazy. Why not play it safe and have a medium-sized focused 'task force' group for the project? It'll make sure there's funding for a lot longer.

Since the very beginning it's boggled me that a crowdfunded startup has 300 employees in 4 world locations. I know Europe-US flights aren't that cheap also.

I can answer that. First two studios were in the US. Third studio opened in UK as the government has a program in place to provide subsidies to game developers, it makes good financial sense to house the majority of staff in the UK because of this. Forth studio opened in Frankfurt to secure the talent of the ex-CryTek guys (no need for people to relocate). I won't argue the pros and cons of one dev location vs four; I just wanted to let people know the reasoning behind multiple studios.

 

[Gully Foyle]

The dang ships sure are purty in SC

Guys - its a Star Citizen thread

Sorry Ian mea culpa

 

[Noctrach]

Having multiple studios work on different things is actually very much the way to go for development of game projects of this kind of scope. Lots of companies have different teams work on different parts, as well as outsourcing whatever can be outsourced to other places (a major part of game art assets are designed/high-poly'd in-house, then outsourced to different studios in different countries for creation of the models that will actually be implemented in the game).
However in their recent videos and public statements they make it seem as if CR is trying to micromanage all of them, which is where a system like this breaks.

Delegating tasks is only useful if you trust the people you're delegating the task to.

Using multiple studios is only useful if you allow these studios to have their own internal hierarchy and management, with frequent progress reports flowing from the local producer to main producer/CEO.
If you have to book flights to be present at the studios every other week or month to keep things afloat then you either have trust issues or there's something fundamentally wrong with your process management.
Personally I feel it's never too late to save a project like this and turn out a reasonably marketable product, but I fear it'd involve overhauling their entire internal hierarchy as well as relegating some really high-profile individuals from executive to supportive roles.