General / Off-Topic EU Referendum (UK only) - to Brexit or not to Brexit

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain

    Votes: 155 50.2%

  • Leave

    Votes: 154 49.8%
  • Total voters
    309
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Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
In the Scotland, the vote is not enough clear, we expected more a report 80 % for the remain against 20 % for the leave. Therefore, the first Secretary of the Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, remained reserved enough for its very first statement this morning
 

Becks

Becks
ianw said:
Absolutely none - I can't fault them for saying that pre UK decision to leave - that's the time when you get all your threats and bluffs on the table. Assuming of course you think that threatening someone in that is both effective and a good example to onlookers. If you leave us we'll crush you! The EU preaching fairness to all!

Once the decision is taken however there is a brand new reality - and one in which the whole EU concept of ever tighter integration gets questioned in all the other countries where there are significant numbers of people that don't want further integration and in some cases seriously regret being in the single currency. They can try and be as punitive as some of them would clearly love to be but the reality they don't really have a free hand - or they do but they could just as easily damage themselves in the process.
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First, those statement weren't threats. If they wouldn't tell you what would happen after you leave you'd scream: "You didn't told us you'd do that, mimimi.". And it's perfectly fine to let another country know how you'll react.

You made your choice to leave. And suddenly the Brexit supporters, who never believed in their victory in the first place, stand there and say "Let's make no haste.".

Have you read article 50? As soon as you deliver the notification you have two years to negotiate the exit conditions. Not a day longer. And if you're not done by then and the EU hasn't unanimously agreed on an extension of that deadline, you're out without those exit conditions. Did they tell you that all those neat treaties with non EU states will be invalid, too? Since they apply to the EU.

It's not "If you leave we'll crush you.", it's "If you leave, we won't give you anything.".

They wouldn't even need to be punitive. They'd just need to buy time until the two years are over.

ianw said:
Probably a reaction to the once you're out you're out narrative talk to us now!

Umm, actually we'll talk to you when we're ready - you've already made it clear you're going to give us the shaft so what do we have to lose?
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Let's see how patient the EU officials are if you play this game for too long.

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Sooden said:
Nato , yeah, i agree... the one that wanted Ukraine to join them and sparked fears in Russia (remember Ukraine is Russia access to the black sea (trade routed), no wonder they panicked, but that is a very complicated subject).

Hate to see what they do to the UK if we don't keep them happy. so, good point i guess.

Scotland oil.. hmm. kinda why they here so happy to go independent. Then fracking started, then oil prices dropped... and now it not worth so much. Venezuela has a lot of oil :)
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The oil price will rise again, sooner or later. Venezuela .... Venezuela was horribly mismanaged, but I'm not really an expert in terms of Venezuela.
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
What is remarkable in the Brexit is that a country can take its decisions freely and autonomously. Freedom is inestimable compared to the goodies of the consumer society.
The secret of the happiness is the freedom and the secret of the freedom is the courage ( Périclès)
 
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Monk

Monk
Nasher said:
I think there's a few. But no where near enough to run the country on.

Other than oil they don't really have anything. Almost all the industry is in England.
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Marcus said:
Yes it has a refinery, but Scotland wouldn't need to rely on oil, plenty of small countries dont have oil and do fine. Scotland has a lot more going on :)
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Ok, follow up...I suppose I could google this but I want to hear from y'all.

Are we talking sweet crude or shale oil (like Canada)?

If the former, then that oil can bring in plenty of revenue even at prices below what we are seeing now.

Marcus, what does Scotland have going on that can support itself until it can secure aid from the EU?
 

Im_Lost

I
Monk said:
Ok, follow up...I suppose I could google this but I want to hear from y'all.

Are we talking sweet crude or shale oil (like Canada)?

If the former, then that oil can bring in plenty of revenue even at prices below what we are seeing now.

Marcus, what does Scotland have going on that can support itself until it can secure aid from the EU?
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Most of it is Crude. But it's well known that North Sea oil is running dry, they predict a few decades at most.

Scotland has a big fishing industry. Which is actually suffering badly under the EU, so it's surprising those areas voted in. That's why the east English coastal regions are heavily in favour of leaving.
 

ianw

I
Becks said:
First, those statement weren't threats. If they wouldn't tell you what would happen after you leave you'd scream: "You didn't told us you'd do that, mimimi.". And it's perfectly fine to let another country know how you'll react.

You made your choice to leave. And suddenly the Brexit supporters, who never believed in their victory in the first place, stand there and say "Let's make no haste.".

Have you read article 50? As soon as you deliver the notification you have two years to negotiate the exit conditions. Not a day longer. And if you're not done by then and the EU hasn't unanimously agreed on an extension of that deadline, you're out without those exit conditions. Did they tell you that all those neat treaties with non EU states will be invalid, too? Since they apply to the EU.

It's not "If you leave we'll crush you.", it's "If you leave, we won't give you anything.".

They wouldn't even need to be punitive. They'd just need to buy time until the two years are over.



Let's see how patient the EU officials are if you play this game for too long.

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The oil price will rise again, sooner or later. Venezuela .... Venezuela was horribly mismanaged, but I'm not really an expert in terms of Venezuela.
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Firstly, you seem to be assuming I made a choice to leave and/or that I even think it's the best way forward.

Secondly the point I'm trying and clearly failing to make to you - is that it looks fairly obvious that no-one knows or knew what is/was actually going to happen and that maybe in two years the EU won't be holding the cards they and you think they are holding now.

A lot of things may change - not just the UK's immediate prospects.

Or maybe negotiations may turn out better then they look from the point of view of today once the reality sets in all round.
 

Ironwolf

Ironwolf
Miklos Atreides said:
Turkish Top Leadership is currently busy with self posing for various mostly internal reasons.
I doubt they can take advantage. As long as Turkish governments deals with lawfull sate and
freedom the way they do today there is no chance becoming member in EU with or without Britain.

Miklos
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Yes, I hope that is all that happens...
 
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glynie

glynie
Just for the record, I voted to remain. Disappointed with the result. I think we should be united as a world, connected to and helping one another. In it together. To me this represents a step in the wrong direction.
 

Im_Lost

I
glynie said:
Just for the record, I voted to remain. Disappointed with the result. I think we should be united as a world, connected to and helping one another. In it together. To me this represents a step in the wrong direction.
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Doesn't mean we can't be united. There is no way the UK and EU is going to cut ties just because we are not inside the EU. It would hurt everyone.

We are still allies to most of Europe, share intel and trade with them.
 

Surfinjo

Surfinjo
Insomnia said:
Wanted to ask you British people... I've read about a murder that supposedly started, or accelerated Brexit.
What happened?
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The guy was a nut job and has been remanded in custody until his trial.

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glynie said:
I don't know what you're talking about - certainly didn't influence my decision.
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As it turned out, it didn't seem to affect most people.
 

ianw

I
Insomnia said:
Wanted to ask you British people... I've read about a murder that supposedly started, or accelerated Brexit.
What happened?
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I think it may refer to the slaughter of an unarmed unprepared MP by some lunatic.

She was by all accounts one of the few actually principled MP's we had and supported the remain side.

On the day it happened there was a surge in support for remain.
 

Becks

Becks
ianw said:
Firstly, you seem to be assuming I made a choice to leave and/or that I even think it's the best way forward.

Secondly the point I'm trying and clearly failing to make to you - is that it looks fairly obvious that no-one knows or knew what is/was actually going to happen and that maybe in two years the EU won't be holding the cards they and you think they are holding now.

A lot of things may change - not just the UK's immediate prospects.

Or maybe negotiations may turn out better then they look from the point of view of today once the reality sets in all round.
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Oh, I never assumed that you voted leave. If I remember right you were undecided yesterday (or the day before yesterday).

And I don't wish you economic doom or punitive measures by the EU. Seriously not, I'd prefer a Europe with drama which doesn't effect me like this (and I know many cool people from the UK, who definitely don't deserve getting punished for this).

Why should the hand the EU is holding change? Like I said, you're a country under very very close observation right now. And noone from outside of the EU wants to interfere at the moment. It's just that the longer the Brexiteers wait, the less they appear to have the guts to pull it through. And breaking a promise that big would break a few necks too.

Maybe negotiations turn out better yeah. But you're only negotiating the leaving conditions in the next two years. I doubt that the EU will give you an advantageous trade deal afterwards. And even if you should get a similiar trade deal to a membership or the Swiss/Norway treaties you'd still need to abide the regulations, pay a memberfee and guarantee freedom of movement, since those are very basics of EU trade deals ...

I honestly can't see a point in leaving. What happened was that the older generation      ed the younger generation over, since the younger generation was clearly for remaining in the EU.

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Nasher said:
Doesn't mean we can't be united. There is no way the UK and EU is going to cut ties just because we are not inside the EU. It would hurt everyone.

We are still allies to most of Europe, share intel and trade with them.
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Because you're still in the EU at the moment.
 
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