General / Off-Topic EU Referendum (UK only) - to Brexit or not to Brexit
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Doubt it.
The issue that keeps popping up is immigration. It is immigration that is the real sticking point here.
Most of the complaints over the years, about the EU have had little to do with it and everything to do with the UK government's obsession with not actually governing. Health and Safety being a principal example.
Leave or stay, but Britain should decide it fast. Both EU and Britain are sitting on a time bomb.. the markets are growing restless and both EU and Britain will feel it soon, what has happened now is just the beginning. As long as Britain will delay their resignation both sides will keep getting pummeled by the market forces. Markets need to know where we are heading next.. its the uncertainty that will rock the boat. Ofcourse there will be some repercussion for Britain leaving EU, but for the long term they arent going to be so bad.. it would be insane for EU to hurt itself by cutting trade too much with Britain.
k, of come the gloves (ooh its cold)
</rant
that posted pessage;
'one of my house mates is crying in my room...'
aaaw diddums, shame we didn't have message boards around when the fishermen where forced to destroy their boats and get different jobs. Yeah they got paid to do it, but it was not a choice.
'my mom g out because the UK just basically put xenophobia and racism ahead of its Owen interest'
what? this just show that the person has not understood the motive behind the leave side, and that they probably voted remain because they have not clue what leaving was about (tax on tampons as a luxury good?).
This does not make leave voters racist, but it does show that some people don't know what they are voting for and have voted to remain so they don't 'look' racist. (yes i am aware some racism will be in there, let not go down that endless road of stupidity)
'i'm living in the Netherlands rn and the pound plummeted so much that the money i budgeted at the sta...'
But, didn't the remain campaign tell us this would happen, even the leave campaign admitted it would. I know what I did a good time before the vote, planned for possible market outcomes, and made sure I hade a little bit extra aside (yeah, had to cut back on other stuff, not nice, but have the rent and bill covered).
why has the pound dropped, well most know, but don't forget it the dam rich stock market players making cash/reducing losses... Not loyalty to the UK (would not expect them to) and these sort of people control our economy with their money games... just hope they stay out this time.. Blood first vampires!
They have no interest in the companies they investing, just see 'short selling'. they F-up peoples lives to make some fast cash, and to hell with the people and economy. I hope the financial sector moves out of the UK, it doesn't benefit me or most (mainly London, were we saw the most remain votes), we don't see the advantages of such practises, but we feel the effect.
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Yes and with how full up on debt and derivatives finance and governments are it may be time to put a little aside, something useful if it all goes Pete tong.
And here we Go.
EU Leaders started Announcing that we need more European Control.
"We need to Help the Memberstates Fix the Problems that they cannot Solve themselves. We need to Answer the Worries and Problems of the EU Citizens Directly. And step in where the National Government alone cannot Solve the Problems of the People alone"
I was somewhat interested what the EU Leaders would do now.
If they would Switch towards an more Federal System with Memberstates getting more Competences.
Or if they would move towards more Control for Europe.
And given the current Speeches. It seems they have decided.
The Reference towards the already taken Steps to make Outer Border Control an EU Competence made me Laugh.
The Open Statement that the EU now wants to move towards using this System in other Areas as well is Pretty Surprising tough. I didnt think they would make it so Obvious.
EU Leaders started Announcing that we need more European Control.
"We need to Help the Memberstates Fix the Problems that they cannot Solve themselves. We need to Answer the Worries and Problems of the EU Citizens Directly. And step in where the National Government alone cannot Solve the Problems of the People alone"
I was somewhat interested what the EU Leaders would do now.
If they would Switch towards an more Federal System with Memberstates getting more Competences.
Or if they would move towards more Control for Europe.
And given the current Speeches. It seems they have decided.
The Reference towards the already taken Steps to make Outer Border Control an EU Competence made me Laugh.
The Open Statement that the EU now wants to move towards using this System in other Areas as well is Pretty Surprising tough. I didnt think they would make it so Obvious.
he analyses every statement to create context before commenting on it. Sorry its not quick and snappy, the truth isn't. This is what people talking untruth rely on, the unwillingness of people to research and the willingness to be hip and short the short flashy messages.
I relay suggest you do force your self to watch it all, from start to finish, there is also a second video ... yeah that a lot of watching. Its never a good feeling when your wrong (i know that feeling, has happened to me, happens to everyone) but don't try to defend a mistake (your video as any sort of information on trump 'But that doesn't make the problems he shows up any less real')
republican,maybe ,maybe not, what are the parties in Australia? hes not from the U.S.
and you say 'I can get my own informations and I don't need a republican video for it.'. yup, you sure can, and what a great job your doing [haha]
He does not analyze every statement about Trump, he analyzes every SENTENCE in the video. That's simply unnecessary, especially in the parts which are obviously not serious meant.
I'd be fine if he'd analyze every statement and brings proof that Trump isn't the racist idiot the media claims him to be.
Also I tried to find two key statements of Olivers video and the answers from Mr Molyneux.
David Duke - "Maybe he didn't remember." Seriously? You'd expect from a candidate for the presidency that he at least immediately condemns a white supremacy group like the Kukluxklan. He implied a link between vaccines and autism in the next minute, too, which is straight up .
On Trump suggesting you need to 'take out their [terrorists] families' - whatever he's interpreting in there, Trump suggested in live TV that you should kill civilians in a war. Don't kid yourselves by trying to relativate that.
Like I said, I wouldn't have the time to watch the whole thing even if I wanted to.
You don't have to be from the US to side with the republicans
It's irrelevant where he's from.You can support the republicans in the US as much as you want, not my business. But don't try to label me as willfully ignorant, political correct liberal. You know basically nothing about me or the reasons why I have my political view.
I admit, John Oliver exxagerates much and rips things out of context. But there are many other Trump quotes out there which clearly show that he has neither a consistent opinion nor an idea how politics and world economy work. And I'm really wondering why the US population votes for him.
But that makes Trump neither a likeable person nor a good president.
And maybe he deserves the flung unto him if he's a person mocking a disabled journalist while you're recorded.
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sort of, i live in a nation in UK which voted to remain far more consistantly than the total uk vote to leave, we also recently voted to remain in the UK as a whole and in many cases this was based on our continued membership in the EU (better together remember) so understandably alot of people are feeling pretty buttsore right now. being told 'stop winging and comply' is not the best argument for democracy and is a very strong case for a second independence ref debate.
In other words given how folk voted and given the results (and their distribution) it is precisely this feeling that 'democracy is a foreign land' which is gonna fuel growing divisions in the UK, especially given how much of the leave campaign was spearheaded by the growing (not terribly democratic) far right movements in England.
strange days indeed.
oh well, at least our bananas can be any shape we can imagine now
Like I said, making Trump out to be a good guy requires some impressive mental gymnastics. Of course it's easier if the starting place is "liberals lie all the time" so you then start with the assumption that anything Jon Oliver said must be mean spirited and wrong. Confirmation Bias and all that.
He does not analyze every statement about Trump, he analyzes every SENTENCE in the video. That's simply unnecessary, especially in the parts which are obviously not serious meant.
I'd be fine if he'd analyze every statement and brings proof that Trump isn't the racist idiot the media claims him to be.
Also I tried to find two key statements of Olivers video and the answers from Mr Molyneux.
David Duke - "Maybe he didn't remember." Seriously? You'd expect from a candidate for the presidency that he at least immediately condemns a white supremacy group like the Kukluxklan. He implied a link between vaccines and autism in the next minute, too, which is straight up .
On Trump suggesting you need to 'take out their [terrorists] families' - whatever he's interpreting in there, Trump suggested in live TV that you should kill civilians in a war. Don't kid yourselves by trying to relativate that.
Like I said, I wouldn't have the time to watch the whole thing even if I wanted to.
You don't have to be from the US to side with the republicans
You can support the republicans in the US as much as you want, not my business. But don't try to label me as willfully ignorant, political correct liberal. You know basically nothing about me or the reasons why I have my political view.
I admit, John Oliver exxagerates much and rips things out of context. But there are many other Trump quotes out there which clearly show that he has neither a consistent quote nor an idea how politics and world economy work. And I'm really wondering why the US population votes for him.
But that makes Trump neither a likeable person nor a good president.
And maybe he deserves the flung unto him if he's a person mocking a disabled journalist while you're recorded.
but my post was in reference to your video post, and i gave a video explaining that video, not on any of the other subjects surrounding trump. Don't expand this beyond the scope of your video being a statement on trump.
you posted that video as a kind of 'truth' about trump (stared to back track quite fast with, hea's just a comedian argument). i pointed out its not a truth (no 'ridiculous Trumps behaviour can be if he has an ill mind towards you') , and now you want to escape that error but pulling on any other tread of possible truth you can find about trump. like you, i don't have all the time in the world to watch videos, so i'm not going to go down the path of reaching and correcting where needs, or agreeing on some points, that have nothing to do with your video link response.
Sometimes (in this case) people will expand and argument until they get the upper-ground on one point and use that to undermined the past discussions (done it myslef
).its not whether trump is good or not, what i don't like is media, and how people spew it out like it means something. It hurt people in the long run, because they cant make choices on their own understanding. this happened in the UK media so much (both sides)
you may have found one thing in all of the video posted ' take out their families' sound wrongs to me (very bad), be he says before that about 'reducing civilian casualties' (in the original video), and i would like to know what trump said after that statement. did he clear up his wording? has it been taken out of context?
all the videos i see cut right after he says that sentence, and it dosent look like the interview ended there... i'm struggling to find a 'Full length' version of that interview , without the cut at the juicy part. if anyone has it, i would like it. Then i can judge what he said in its full context
added:
this \/
'And maybe he deserves the flung unto him if he's a person mocking a disabled journalist while you're recorded. '
at the time he didn't know he was disabled, and trump was just being an ass!
but that became, 'trump mocked a disabled person'... not,' trump unknowing mock a person that was disabled'... 2 very different motives and not saying mocking someone is okay
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but there is info that he did know him... i don't know my self. so its a case of did trump realy not know, or is trump liying... its opinion and something i wish i hadnt added to this post
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I am debating if I should write a letter to the Times (open of course). The reason being I thought we had left Europe but when I awoke this morning i was shocked to learn we are still next to France.
This is unacceptable.
Not that I object to the French in any way you have fantastic food and wine!
This is unacceptable.
Not that I object to the French in any way you have fantastic food and wine!
So now the UK doesnt want to be part of the EU and this topic already stating this is an UK-only thing, will we EU people get our EU forums? (Something like forums.frontier.eu?)
Million sign petition for new EU referendum !!!
You have to laugh at the remain voters intelligence, we are out, never going back and even if you have 300 more referendums, UK voters will still vote out. If on the 299 referendum you won, the out voters will demand another vote to get out and keep doing so until the vote went their way, Hilarious.
Accept democracy and stop whining and throwing your toys out of the pram. It Just proves they remain voters want to strip UK identity and democracy for a united states of Europe .
You have to laugh at the remain voters intelligence, we are out, never going back and even if you have 300 more referendums, UK voters will still vote out. If on the 299 referendum you won, the out voters will demand another vote to get out and keep doing so until the vote went their way, Hilarious.
Accept democracy and stop whining and throwing your toys out of the pram. It Just proves they remain voters want to strip UK identity and democracy for a united states of Europe .
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Absolute apologist . Trump knew full well. He has always been a bully, and he knows exactly what he's doing when he goes into personal attacks on people's appearance, gender, etc. You are deliberately closing your eyes to his character. Either that or you like what you see but know it needs to be spun as it's unpalatable to most people.
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Funny. Somehow the Leave activists didn't want to accept democracy and the fact that this vote had already been held long ago.
but my post was in reference to your video post, and i gave a video explaining that video, not on any of the other subjects surrounding trump. Don't expand this beyond the scope of your video being a statement on trump.
you posted that video as a kind of 'truth' about trump (stared to back track quite fast with, hea's just a comedian argument). i pointed out its not a truth (no 'ridiculous Trumps behaviour can be if he has an ill mind towards you') , and now you want to escape that error but pulling on any other tread of possible truth you can find about trump. like you, i don't have all the time in the world to watch videos, so i'm not going to go down the path of reaching and correcting where needs, or agreeing on some points, that have nothing to do with your video link response.
Sometimes (in this case) people will expand and argument until they get the upper-ground on one point and use that to undermined the past discussions (done it myslef
I've posted that video as exact what you're claiming it is. A statement on Trump. Not some kind of 'truth'. I'm not hypocritical enough to claim that my opinion is better than yours or that I know what's true and what not.
Anyways, we're not going to agree here. Your video 'proofs' that John Olivers statement is biased. But the argumentation in key aspects is incredible poor.
Media is manipulating a lot, yeah. But media always has done that and especially as politician you need to be very very careful what you're saying.
Saying stuff like "The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families" is preprogrammed to backfire in whatever context you say it and whatever you correct afterwards.
Even if he didn't meant to kill those families, what would he do? Take them as hostages? Intentionally involving civilians into a war isn't something a sane human being should propose.
Anyways, we're much much off topic here.
Soliluna posted a very good video about the Brexit and the legal steps afterwards a while ago.
[video=youtube;USTypBKEd8Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y[/video]
You need to make sense when you place words together in a sentence, as this makes no sense or logic
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If, at some stage in the future the people of Scotland decide to travel their own path, then I can only speak for myself in that I would wish you god speed and good luck.
As for the right wing/left wing stuff. I suspect the referendum vote transcended the traditional political boundaries.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster
Most of all, Brexit is the consequence of the economic bargain struck in the early 1980s, whereby we waved goodbye to the security and certainties of the postwar settlement, and were given instead an economic model that has just about served the most populous parts of the country, while leaving too much of the rest to anxiously decline. Look at the map of those results, and that huge island of “in” voting in London and the south-east; or those jaw-dropping vote-shares for remain in the centre of the capital: 69% in Tory Kensington and Chelsea; 75% in Camden; 78% in Hackney, contrasted with comparable shares for leave in such places as Great Yarmouth (71%), Castle Point in Essex (73%), and Redcar and Cleveland (66%). Here is a country so imbalanced it has effectively fallen over.
The above article does pretty much chime with my personal viewpoint (Confirmation Bias?).
Furthermore I don't believe the EU is a friend to it's constituent citizens, a view formed by visits to friends in Greece over the last five years. Workers rights are only any good if you're actually working, yet we see a generation of youth sacrificed on the altar of European Integration.
I must have missed the good bits that outweigh the pain it continues to inflict there, yet still allows people to still see it as an organisation on the side of ordinary people.
Take care.
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FTSE 100 rallies to BETTER level than start of the week after early Brexit slump.
"As traders looked for bargains amid the chaos the markets improved. By mid-afternoon, the index had staged a partial recovery to sit at around 6,186 - down around two per cent from yesterday's close of 6,338."
So UK are riding the storm and not nose diving as 99% of the EU supporters have claimed here
[url]http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/682970/ftse-100-plunge-brexit-markets-open
[/URL] What is occurring in the EU...They are the ones getting hit hard .
Stocks tumbled in Europe. Frankfurt .GDAXI and Paris .FCHI each fell 7 percent to 8 percent. Italian .FTMIB and Spanish .IBEX markets posted their sharpest one-day drops ever, falling more than 12 percent, led by a dive in European bank stocks .SX7P. Italy's Unicredit (CRDI.MI) fell 24 percent while Spain's Banco Santander (SAN.MC) fell 20 percent.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-idUSKCN0Z92MZ
"As traders looked for bargains amid the chaos the markets improved. By mid-afternoon, the index had staged a partial recovery to sit at around 6,186 - down around two per cent from yesterday's close of 6,338."
So UK are riding the storm and not nose diving as 99% of the EU supporters have claimed here
[url]http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/682970/ftse-100-plunge-brexit-markets-open
[/URL] What is occurring in the EU...They are the ones getting hit hard .
Stocks tumbled in Europe. Frankfurt .GDAXI and Paris .FCHI each fell 7 percent to 8 percent. Italian .FTMIB and Spanish .IBEX markets posted their sharpest one-day drops ever, falling more than 12 percent, led by a dive in European bank stocks .SX7P. Italy's Unicredit (CRDI.MI) fell 24 percent while Spain's Banco Santander (SAN.MC) fell 20 percent.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-idUSKCN0Z92MZ
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Javert
Volunteer Moderator
I highly doubt there will be a new referendum but, it's not completely outside the realms of possibility if, over the next year or so, it becomes clear that the negotiations are going badly for the UK and it ends up that the reasons a lot of people voted leave were a sham.
What should actually happen now if David Cameron hadn't painted us into such a corner with the referendum wording is that we should negotiate an exit deal, and then have a second referendum to approve it.
The BBC are reporting that Nigel Farage stated during the campaign that if the result was 52/48 in favour of remain, he would continue to campaign for another referendum and the fight would go on. Should the same not be true in reverse? That said, I don't have a corroboration or video / audio of that statement so I would be interested if anyone has a link that proves it.
Furthermore, if there was a chance of winning a 2nd referendum for remain, there is very probably a majority in UK parliament to approve the necessary legislation, possibly in opposition to the new PM - we are now sailing into uncharted waters.
Even article 50 specifically states that any nation that leaves the EU could request to rejoin, so in theory there could be another referendum in future.
The statement that leave would always win forever into the future is very confident but may not be true, especially as younger people voted decisively in favour of being in the EU, and as we know there are only two sure things in life.
I know many people who voted remain and a few who voted leave. I don't know a single one who wanted a united states of europe and we had already negotiated a cast iron opt out on that, so your other assertion is also incorrect.
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