General / Off-Topic EU Referendum (UK only) - to Brexit or not to Brexit

[Luniticisi]

Funny. Somehow the Leave activists didn't want to accept democracy and the fact that this vote had already been held long ago.

The referendum that was held in 1975 was for the common market, that's how it was sold. the EU only became a political union for the UK in 1993 when the Maastricht Treaty was signed by John Major.

As it stands when Ted Heath signed the European Communities Bill (the start of what became the EU) in 1972 he was in violation of British law and breached the constitutional convention which requires a prior consultation of the people (either by a general election or a referendum) on any measure involving constitutional change.

So we shouldn't have been in it in the first place ..

 

[Fyrd Judge]

FTSE 100 rallies to BETTER level than start of the week after early Brexit slump.


"As traders looked for bargains amid the chaos the markets improved. By mid-afternoon, the index had staged a partial recovery to sit at around 6,186 - down around two per cent from yesterday's close of 6,338."

So UK are riding the storm and not nose diving as 99% of the EU supporters have claimed here


http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/682970/ftse-100-plunge-brexit-markets-open



What is occurring in the EU...They are the ones getting hit hard .


Stocks tumbled in Europe. Frankfurt .GDAXI and Paris .FCHI each fell 7 percent to 8 percent. Italian .FTMIB and Spanish .IBEX markets posted their sharpest one-day drops ever, falling more than 12 percent, led by a dive in European bank stocks .SX7P. Italy's Unicredit (CRDI.MI) fell 24 percent while Spain's Banco Santander (SAN.MC) fell 20 percent.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-idUSKCN0Z92MZ



Now all we have today is drag our feet in getting out and keep the pressure up on the EU bullies to behave.

 

[Cosmos]

Who's going to deal with them?

Labour have been un-electable for years - even more so now with Corbyn. The only reason they got a sniff in the last couple of decades was because they got hijacked and used by Blair & Co.

Libdems - lol

UKIP - bigger lol

Monster Raving Loony Party - well you know - more credible than Labour or Libdems - but even so..

Its depressing atm I agree. I don't think Corbyn is unelectable and it surely has to be better than voting for the Tories. My complaint with Labour is that they don't seem to understand the grievances with the mass immigration we've seen. Yet they are the least worst option as it stands. I think Corbyn's heart is in the right place but talking about nuclear disarmament and suggesting immigration isn't an issue, is problematic.

The Tories on the other hand are single handedly destroying the UK; the Scots had enough and so the SNP emerged. Milliband said he wouldn't put the UK at risk of Brexit but people voted for the Tories, and they can't even get along amongst themselves. They've also clearly not planned for the result, perhaps largely because they thought scaring people into submission would work.

Problem with the UK is the first past the post electoral system. We desperately need a system of proportional represnation. The present political class are idiots and have screwed up the country.

I'm pleased we got Leave vote but as you say there seems to be so few options for parties to vote for. I'd suggest creating a new one but getting directly involved in the UK political system is a nightmare. And then there is the right wing press..

 

[Becks]

FTSE 100 rallies to BETTER level than start of the week after early Brexit slump.


"As traders looked for bargains amid the chaos the markets improved. By mid-afternoon, the index had staged a partial recovery to sit at around 6,186 - down around two per cent from yesterday's close of 6,338."

So UK are riding the storm and not nose diving as 99% of the EU supporters have claimed here


http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/682970/ftse-100-plunge-brexit-markets-open



What is occurring in the EU...They are the ones getting hit hard .


Stocks tumbled in Europe. Frankfurt .GDAXI and Paris .FCHI each fell 7 percent to 8 percent. Italian .FTMIB and Spanish .IBEX markets posted their sharpest one-day drops ever, falling more than 12 percent, led by a dive in European bank stocks .SX7P. Italy's Unicredit (CRDI.MI) fell 24 percent while Spain's Banco Santander (SAN.MC) fell 20 percent.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-idUSKCN0Z92MZ



Now all we have today is drag our feet in getting out and keep the pressure up on the EU bullies to behave.

"The liquidity support promised by the Bank of England (and subsequently the ECB and Federal Reserve) appears to have been the main catalyst for the turnaround, especially given the fact that the afternoon was still littered with worrying news ..."

Oh noes, the EU bullies helped saving your butt ...

You do realize that it's absolutely not in your interest if the other european countries 'get hit hard' by the Brexit?

 

[Fyrd Judge]

The EU's £1TRILLION plans kept secret until AFTER the referendum.

Brussels leaders set out their new military strategy, an EU army, Where all nations forces join one EU force and that force will get its orders from Brussels.

Another lie the EU told us would never happen.



http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...raffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

You do realize that it's absolutely not in your interest if the other european countries 'get hit hard' by the Brexit?

Yes it is, they want a federal Europe, where all countries within the EU strip national identity and join the Eu. NO THANKS.

Look what they did to Greece, give the EU an army, weapons, and they will start marching in to EU areas threating people to their will.

 

[Yaffle]

FTSE-100 is a poor indicator as it's mostly INTERNATIONAL companies. The all-share is down a further 4% today.

Quoting Santander (significant base in the UK) does not help your cause. All banks fell. Check out HSBC or Barclays, both about 20% down too.

The liquidity Becks notes and 0% interest will help short term, but at 0% interest here and a credit rating of 'negative' it leaves a real issue over the UK raising finance, and maintaining the high inward investment it needs to feed our desire for imports of everything from food to iphones. Don't look at the bond market if you've just eaten.

 

[Sooden]

I've posted that video as exact what you're claiming it is. A statement on Trump. Not some kind of 'truth'. I'm not hypocritical enough to claim that my opinion is better than yours or that I know what's true and what not.

Anyways, we're not going to agree here. Your video 'proofs' that John Olivers statement is biased. But the argumentation in key aspects is incredible poor.



Media is manipulating a lot, yeah. But media always has done that and especially as politician you need to be very very careful what you're saying.

Saying stuff like "The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families" is preprogrammed to backfire in whatever context you say it and whatever you correct afterwards.

Even if he didn't meant to kill those families, what would he do? Take them as hostages? Intentionally involving civilians into a war isn't something a sane human being should propose.

Anyways, we're much much off topic here.


Soliluna posted a very good video about the Brexit and the legal steps afterwards a while ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

I watched the first 5 minuets and...joking,

'Professor of European Law at the University of Liverpool' maybe he could be a little bias? what happened to his job when we leave? probably be less classes and may not be needed at the university. just putting that out there.

but , good video. still not really getting to the issue of the problem, a lot in the are not seeing the befits of the EU and a lot are. This is why there is a split, and if only the movements had listened to the 'peasant classes', we would not be in this position.

The EU is a wonderful idea, but the UK is not in a position where it can work for the UK (all of the UK), probably in another 10 year in the EU and maybe the UK will have adjusted... wait 10 years, hmm. its good for big business and job related to them (that's all great but not for me )

so let give a personal example;

I'm self employed, with very small dealings with the U.S. and in a year, some links in Russia (not saying what that jobs about:x) the EU has directly affect my U.S. factors, as VAT was put on a service that didn't have VAT before (Ty EU), for a short while (while I adjusted, and lost about 3k in assets) I moved that service out of the UK to a friend in Norway (EU law makes me move my product out of the EU)

I really want to get into 3d printing products related to one of my type of work, as a small business in the EU, the regulations make that impossible, and I would struggle to see profits for over 5-8 years unless I expanded it to a medium or large business (taking on staff, and starting with a big loan to cover legal fees). I have no interest in growing big, I'm not after big cash, I just want to sell my work on a small scale, just for the satisfaction and enough to pay the bills.

Regulations cripple small businesses, what happened to customer feedback being the main show of quality, and buyer risk (yeah, some people take up a product that is new, and they know there is a risk its naff)

We already have the British standard society (optional and trusted), we already have health and safety laws in the UK, we don't need a bunch of other law we must pass in case we wish to sell to the EU. My3d printing would be sold in the U.K.,U.S. and I would rather just undergo their regulatory test and not the E.U. as well!

(i'm so racist, for voting leave /\ )

not saying the EU doesn't befit the UK, but not all of it, gotta look after your own... so here we are


Added:

also cant wait to see funny shaped vegetables back in shops [squeeeee]

 

[Becks]

Yes it is, they want a federal Europe, where all countries within the EU strip national identity and join the Eu. NO THANKS.

Look what they did to Greece, give the EU an army, weapons, and they will start marching in to EU areas threating people to their will.

I know you don't want to hear this and you probably won't believe me, but the UKs economy will suffer if the economy on the european mainland suffers.

I doubt that the EU will ever get ONE army under its direct rule. From my time in the military I know that there's some coordination stuff ... I think it was eurocorps ... but they're just coordinating military actions between certain memberstates. The UK isn't in there

Even if someone should propose such an EU army, the goverments will never accept that.

 

[Spook]

FTSE-100 is a poor indicator as it's mostly INTERNATIONAL companies. The all-share is down a further 4% today.

Quoting Santander (significant base in the UK) does not help your cause. All banks fell. Check out HSBC or Barclays, both about 20% down too.

The liquidity Becks notes and 0% interest will help short term, but at 0% interest here and a credit rating of 'negative' it leaves a real issue over the UK raising finance, and maintaining the high inward investment it needs to feed our desire for imports of everything from food to iphones. Don't look at the bond market if you've just eaten.

It's not just the UK banks suffering either..

https://mishtalk.com/2016/06/24/dont-worry-deutsche-bank-only-down-21-pre-market/

 

[Yaffle]

As far as I recall the only people mentioning this one EU army were exiters anyway. I guess it's on the list next to Turkey will join the EU, and millions of them will head to the UK.

Anyhow, how do we improve things?

What are thoughts for building the new Golden Age. We are were we are, so let's look ahead.

It's not just the UK banks suffering either..

https://mishtalk.com/2016/06/24/dont-worry-deutsche-bank-only-down-21-pre-market/

As I said, ALL banks fell. They have an exposure to the UK.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

The FTSE 100 is an index composed of the 100 largest companies listed on the London Stock Exchange (LSE). These are often referred to as ‘blue chip’ companies, and the index is seen traditionally as a good indication of the performance of major companies listed in the UK, doinG imports and exports.

This has been the indicator to judge the economy and as for the banks, the Bank of England has alread said UK banks have ten times more money in the banks than before the world bank crash, they can ride the storm out. The only people i see getting hit hardest are the rich and this is why most of them wanted to remain in the EU.

 

[Becks]

I watched the first 5 minuets and...joking,

'Professor of European Law at the University of Liverpool' maybe he could be a little bias? what happened to his job when we leave? probably be less classes and may not be needed at the university. just putting that out there.

but , good video. still not really getting to the issue of the problem, a lot in the are not seeing the befits of the EU and a lot are. This is why there is a split, and if only the movements had listened to the 'peasant classes', we would not be in this position.

He said that he's biased, but he also said that everything he's going to say is based on hard evidence.

Also if the UK needs to renegotiate aaaaall their stuff with the EU there will be tons of jobs for that man and his knowledge of EU law.

The EU is a wonderful idea, but the UK is not in a position where it can work for the UK (all of the UK), probably in another 10 year in the EU and maybe the UK will have adjusted... wait 10 years, hmm. its good for big business and job related to them (that's all great but not for me )

so let give a personal example;

I'm self employed, with very small dealings with the U.S. and in a year, some links in Russia (not saying what that jobs about) the EU has directly affect my U.S. factors, as VAT was put on a service that didn't have VAT before (Ty EU), for a short while (while I adjusted, and lost about 3k in assets) I moved that service out of the UK to a friend in Norway (EU law makes me move my product out of the EU)

I really want to get into 3d printing products related to one of my type of work, as a small business in the EU, the regulations make that impossible, and I would struggle to see profits for over 5-8 years unless I expanded it to a medium or large business (taking on staff, and starting with a big loan to cover legal fees). I have no interest in growing big, I'm not after big cash, I just want to sell my work on a small scale, just for the satisfaction and enough to pay the bills.

Regulations cripple small businesses, what happened to customer feedback being the main show of quality, and buyer risk (yeah, some people take up a product that is new, and they know there is a risk its naff)

We already have the British standard society (optimal, but trusted), we already have health and safety laws in the UK, we don't need a bunch of other law we must pass in case we wish to sell to the EU. My3d printing would be sold in the U.K.,U.S. and I would rather just undergo their regulatory test and not the E.U. as well!

(i'm so racist, for voting leave /\ )

not saying the EU doesn't befit the UK, but not all of it, gotta look after your own... so here we are

Sorry for your little business if the EU makes life hard for you.

But we're talking about economy on a national scale here. You should really watch the last 15 minutes of the video. He explains very good how the procedure for leaving the EU will go down.

I'm still studying so I may not have the experience of a businessman/woman who managed a business for years, but I think my grasp of basic international economics is relatively good.

And the EU does definitely benefit your national economy by granting access to the single market.

Also for that line: "(i'm so racist, for voting leave /\ )": I never said that and I never thought that. What I said was that parts of the campaign were driven by xenophobia, which is undoubtely true.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

I know you don't want to hear this and you probably won't believe me, but the UKs economy will suffer if the economy on the european mainland suffers.
.

Becks, i found something i agree with you on.

 

[Minonian]

Becks, i found something i agree with you on.

To cut the whole story short, nobody can come out of this in good shape.

 

[Becks]

Becks, i found something i agree with you on.

I'm not sure if you mean the first part of my sentence or the second. Anyway, wow, didn't thought that day would ever come.

 

[DD_Crash]

I wonder if the politicians/bureaucrats in Brussels feel any responsibility for the result? It looks to me that they made NO effort to make a positive pitch on how the UK has helped/lead the debate forward. The behavior of Junker and his mates and their arrogant statements made the remain campaign harder.

 

[Yaffle]

The FTSE 100 is an index composed of the 100 largest companies listed on the London Stock Exchange (LSE). These are often referred to as ‘blue chip’ companies, and the index is seen traditionally as a good indication of the performance of major companies listed in the UK, doinG imports and exports.

This has been the indicator to judge the economy and as for the banks, the Bank of England has alread said they have ten times more money in the banks than before the world bank crash, they can ride the storm out. The only people i see getting hit hardest are the rich and this is why most of them wanted to remain in the EU.

Please understand that those 100 are mostly multi-national companies, and as has been said propped up by central bank funding. As a benchmark for the UK as a while it's not very good at all. Despite that central intervention it's still down 166 points.

Also where does the Bank of England's money come from?

 

[Becks]

I wonder if the politicians/bureaucrats in Brussels feel any responsibility for the result? It looks to me that they made NO effort to make a positive pitch on how the UK has helped/lead the debate forward. The behavior of Junker and his mates and their arrogant statements made the remain campaign harder.

Hasn't Cameron asked them to stay quiet?

I can imagine what would have happened if they'd try to take influence.

"The bad eurocrats try to manipulate our public opinion. Vote leave. Don't listen to the experts!."

 

[Minonian]

I wonder if the politicians/bureaucrats in Brussels feel any responsibility for the result? It looks to me that they made NO effort to make a positive pitch on how the UK has helped/lead the debate forward. The behavior of Junker and his mates and their arrogant statements made the remain campaign harder.

He is an idiot, and im not really surprised if this was his intention all the time, and in this case, he deserves to kick his butt into tiny shards.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

To cut the whole story short, nobody can come out of this in good shape.

I agree and this is why both sides should not start a trade war and sort it out with agreement.

Brussels so far are acting poorly, with the wrong attitude. They are upset i understand, but that does not mean because you are i will punish you, That is an act of a Bully.