Imagine seeing that the next time you visit your favorite Barnacle. "Hello there, I've been waiting for you."
UAs, Barnacles & other mysteries Thread 7 - The Canonn
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Imagine seeing that the next time you visit your favorite Barnacle. "Hello there, I've been waiting for you."
Agreed, here's an example sheet for a straight line flight method:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...6OnnagJyX0BSJfhFTb4gprw2os/edit#gid=898656723
Starting with a very coarse search at 10 degree intervals. Once there's reasonable coverage at that scale, then add the 5s, 1s, 0.5s, etc.
I just think flying in a straight line is a more reliable method than circling around a grid that will vary in size depending on how far you are from the equator.
Not too harsh at all I see your points. Be aware though I dont just pop in here with a crazy theory and then get cranky when no one gives me attention. I think about my theories and do my own tests SNIP
Good - now you have stated a testable hypothesis "An undisturbed barnacle will spread" Your early posts described some observations you were making and made requests that weren't in context.
Now you have a hypothesis. What experiments do you propose to test this? Yes, as you've noted all the science will be driven by one person (you), but if you make some very specific requests then others may help you gather some information. ie - "Please volunteer to check on one barnacle every day or so and report it's state in a Google Doc". You do have a well stated hypothesis, now you need to set out to disprove it with organized observations (not wishful thinking)
Perhaps the data you need already exists? LordZ has a spread sheet on the first page with current barnacle spawning states that is updated as people submit information. If he has a record of previous states then you could see how this changes over time. If the update that occurs on each PP tick is the result of the previous week's assaults in the barnie, then you could assume that a barnacle which spawns whole was undisturbed the previous week. Then you just need to start surveying around barnacles that are undisturbed for greater than one week (and one or two control barnacles that you smash regularly)
You may find that smashing is the cause - following your plant analogy.
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On a separate note, I spent a couple of hours flying around 5c last night looking for anything, with some fun canyon flying the order of the day. In the end, I visited one of the barnacles to verify just how easy it is for me to see anything in VR.
Ironically, now that the screen res is better, it's actually harder to see a barnacle - especially destroyed ones that have fewer glowing parts! Might have to chance my arm in the SRV instead - pick a direction and drive
Shortly after the first barnacle was discovered back in January, I did an experiment with it to determine the best way to actually locate one. I did flybys at different altitudes, took screenshots, and compared them to see how easily you could see them. Turns out they are hard to see even from just 1km up, well below the altitude you'd be flying at if you're looking for blue circles. The experiment eventually culminated in a ground survey at which point I discovered the wave scanner could detect a barnacle at a much greater distance than it could be easily seen from the air. Here is the video of that experiment: https://youtu.be/3nSGJdu2Slw
I don't know if they have changed the way Barnacles sound in the wave scanner since I haven't been back to repeat the experiment since, but it still shows you are more likely to detect the Barnacle on the surface than you are from the air.
Do you guys remember when I tried to organize a grid-based search of the planets in the Pleiades back in January? Now that we're working with a single planet (Merope 5c), maybe it would be more viable. Here is the link to it, I've made some small updates to it for the current search effort: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Tbqm8Y4GlGrdbk0UXBKO-Mt7cexa8B-dcLeqREdtCuI
I'm not sure about this system. Google Docs provides a way to collaborate with others but it doesn't really have a proper shared mapping function. If anyone has a better way, please either let me know about it or use that instead. If we can find a good way to coordinate grid searches, that would be ideal.
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Just saw this after my previous post. My mapping system went with a more detailed scale than yours, and as a result it's far more cumbersome since the map is far bigger than most screens where it would be easy to read. Google spreadsheets aren't exactly designed for mapping, but they are shareable and easy to use for collaboration. Perhaps we might find a better option somewhere?
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Is it just me or is the ambient background noise on the surface of Merope 5c kind of creepy - lots of kind of electronic hums and clicks and sort of howls. I don't hang out on ice chunks much so I don't know if this is 'normal'.
I've clipped a lot of Saool's post for brevity, but he is quite correct. Moreover we need to understand a basic fact about research- a lot is shared from an early stage, however for very human reasons a lot is not until a scientist has confidence in his theory and evidence. In RL this is due to IPR concerns, security and other factors, but this is also because when you publish scientific results and theories you are opening your pet theory (and sometimes yourself) to criticism, sometimes very harsh criticism.
So while a lot of ideas, speculation, hypotheses, and some more concrete thoughts ideas & results are shared on this thread juggernaught, don't be surprised if some are withheld until a researcher is sure of their facts.
The UA has these sounds too (at least it does now, post 2.1). It was the first thing I noticed after the update (made a post about it here), and the first thing I noticed about the UP sound.
Well eventually, the grid would become the same size as yours as the search becomes more refined. I just think it makes sense to start with something broad and then get more specific.
One change I need to make on mine is to mark the dividing lines as the latitude or longitude, and make clear the box represents the search path between them.
It would be beyond helpful if the previous states of barnacles were still available, so far I have been relying on myself checking and rechecking barnacles and it is a long process for one CMDR. Although I have only a small test group of them to go by so far these are my findings;
Previously "destroyed" barnacles are now in a "ripe" productive state. (suggests regeneration, previously I thought they would die completely but I admit I was wrong there)
Some previously ripe barnacles are still ripe (suggests renewable harvesting practices, not so much traffic etc.)
Some previously ripe barnacles are destroyed (suggests harvest, too many harvests etc.)
The only one double barnacle I went to was previously ripe, now destroyed. (again suggests too much harvesting)
I have not been able to find a previously ripe barnaclethat is now in a double (reproduction?) state. (too much harvesting? Needs more data for thus)
Nothing concrete and still mostly speculation but to me there it seems there are obvious states the barnacle can be in, and player interaction is what decides the state. I obviously need more evidence to claim this as fact and I will endeavor to get it when I can.
Edit: Correction for above, (some?) previously destroyed barnies are ripe now, but have defenses. Not sure if this is always the case, but I did take note of it at least one site I can recall off the top of my head
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Yeah, I agree. Thing is, when I made this mapping system back in January I did it based on the fact that those grid squares are huge. If you're flying about 2km up and you're in the middle of your current coordinate space, you can see the entire 1x1 grid space, but just barely. And you may not be able to see things in mountains and craters. Even at my 1x1 scale, it's incredibly easy to miss something. Add to that the fact that the barnacles are almost impossible to see, even if you're only 1km up and directly overhead and I came to the realization that even though my 1x1 scale map was cumbersome and way too big for a single screen, even that probably wasn't detailed enough to be accurate.
Ideally, the search will have commanders spaced out liberally across the planet. The map only aids in telling us which spaces have already been searched so that we can direct our searches away from the others. Your map and mine both accomplish the same thing, yours just does it on a single screen, which is at least easier to read at this stage.
As I discovered later, the SRV wave scanner has quite a great range compared to the human eye (or monitor), and can detect Barnacles from over 2km away if you know what to listen for.
But that doesn't help that much, we're still talking about searching an entire planet here. No matter how we organize this, it's going to be cumbersome. This may actually be the first time in history humans have done an exhaustive search of an entire planet. Even though it's all a game, we're still dealing with realistically scaled planets. It's not like trying to find a baseball in the neighbor's overgrown back yard.
The methods we come up with for doing this may end up being the basis for actual planetary search operations years from now. To think...
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Exactly, the search is huge which is why it makes sense to start with something limited and achievable and then refine it.
Actually, the spreadsheet is flawed (the west to east path for a box isn't the same search path as a north to south one - let me rethink how to track the results), but I still think the search methodology is sound.
1 - Fly every line of longitude and latitude in a straight line at 10 degree intervals to provide coarse grid coverage.
2 - Repeat at the intermediate 5 degree intervals.
3 - Repeat at the intermediate 1 degree intervals.
4 - Repeat 1-3 in SRVs!!
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That's good, it sounds like they havent changed. So we still know what to listen for.
I plan to head to Beagle Point with UA-s aboard, and I wonder if anyone here would contribute or sell a UP to the expedition. If not, then I'll still try to get one of my own, but if I don't manage to do that before Friday, then I'll leave with just artefacts and meta-alloys onboard. So, if anyone here would be willing to part with one for long-range ‼Science‼, look me up please!
Also, you can find more info on the expedition here.
Also, you can find more info on the expedition here.
It's easier to see them higher up on the dark side of the planet because Barnacles glow. That being said, maybe we're not looking for barnacles but something else.
If you get there, I can give you the coords of where I dropped a MA at BP. It was checked a few weeks afterwards, and no sign of it (not surprisingly)
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Currently flying -10.4,X at 75% speed at an altitude of about 100-150m.
Have flown about 45 degrees of the line, and finally spotted something !!!
Twas only a Nav Beacon, but as soon as I slowed down, 3 ships appeared, Asp and 2 Vipers. Didnt pay me much notice.
Still rather happy that I spotted something...anything, especially as they tend to look just like rocks
I have made my Merope 5C map editable by anyone, so you can add your survey results to it by coloring the squares you search as follows:
Green - Barnacle Present (confirmed)
Red - Ground Search Conducted
Blue - Aerial Search Conducted
Purple - Both Ground and Air searches have been done here
Number - number of searches that have been performed here
Name - for green squares, the name of the commander who discovered the Barnacle
So for your first flyover you'd make the coordinate blue and put a 1 there. If someone else also visits there (either becuase they are verifying your survey or just didnt know someone else was already there, they add 1 to the number, so it'd be 2). Red and Blue make purple, so where there have been both aerial and ground searches the color should be indicative of that.
If you find a Barnacle, make it green and put your name on the square (might not fit, but we'll deal with that when the time comes). If you find something else, something that's not ordinary that is, well we can jump off that bridge when we come to it. Maybe a nice Teal? Or orange?
Green - Barnacle Present (confirmed)
Red - Ground Search Conducted
Blue - Aerial Search Conducted
Purple - Both Ground and Air searches have been done here
Number - number of searches that have been performed here
Name - for green squares, the name of the commander who discovered the Barnacle
So for your first flyover you'd make the coordinate blue and put a 1 there. If someone else also visits there (either becuase they are verifying your survey or just didnt know someone else was already there, they add 1 to the number, so it'd be 2). Red and Blue make purple, so where there have been both aerial and ground searches the color should be indicative of that.
If you find a Barnacle, make it green and put your name on the square (might not fit, but we'll deal with that when the time comes). If you find something else, something that's not ordinary that is, well we can jump off that bridge when we come to it. Maybe a nice Teal? Or orange?
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Not too harsh at all I see your points. Be aware though I dont just pop in here with a crazy theory and then get cranky when no one gives me attention. I think about my theories and do my own tests to find my own results, and I try to report my observations when I can here, whether it is already known or not. Sometimes when I really believe in something, it is hard to play devils advocate and see where it wont work. That is why I post my theories, so they can be shredded and picked apart. If i am forced to defend my theory it is easier to see the flaws and it helps the theory evolve.
I just get a little frustrated at times, and I guess some of what I said came across the wrong way. I am not saying you guys are hiding information from the public and are conspiring to doom the galaxy haha. We just disagree on how certain things should be done, or sometimes on what is relevant information and what is not. Doesn't make anyone wrong, just different. That wont make me stop reading this thread or posting in it, truly is the most mentally stimulating forum I have ever seen and I'm not bailing out just yet haha. If you wanted to continue discussing this matter further feel free to PM me, but I don't want to derail the thread anymore than I have already
Because everyone is a volunteer it can be hard to get assistance with a theory. There's really no way around that. All you can do is prove it yourself or propose some sort of organised approach and hope you can inspire some other people to join in. This is often most effective if you set up a spreadsheet for data collection and start collecting yourself first. If you're looking to the Canonn council to help organise something the best plan would be to put together a proposal and then contact someone prominent such as Lord Zoltan, Patau82, or Rizal. Obviously we're more likely to get excited about a proposal from a Canonn member, but who knows...
As for feedback, In your case I think you're not getting a lot of feedback because (IMO) your theory is reasonable and not really disprovable as far as I can see. Personally I don't find it particularly compelling simply because I have yet to see any evidence that barnacles are spreading versus simply being discovered for the first time, but that's just me being skeptical really.
Now that's an impressive spreadsheet :O
You know i was thinking on the barni growth thing, Its quite possible that if its related to UA's that FD keep track of locations, Its also likely they have some form of system to say "This planet and this area" will get "Seeded", Also likely that any Spread on a planet would work under the same pretense "Its been mined this many times" or It matchs whatever they use to place them on planets(temp etc)
Its quite possible that one Barn that is on the other side of the planet was from the first one on that planet....That or its random gen and you/us/everyone has no input, I'm betting on that its half and half we do something and they get placed or certain planets would be easy to find them on(Or for example leaving a UA grows one nearby and etc)
I mean MB did say they have certain conditions to spawn(but he can't reveal them) And its possible we could get one to spawn/grow if we had certain conditions(There might be some that could be influenced by placers/npcs)
Its quite possible that one Barn that is on the other side of the planet was from the first one on that planet....That or its random gen and you/us/everyone has no input, I'm betting on that its half and half we do something and they get placed or certain planets would be easy to find them on(Or for example leaving a UA grows one nearby and etc)
I mean MB did say they have certain conditions to spawn(but he can't reveal them) And its possible we could get one to spawn/grow if we had certain conditions(There might be some that could be influenced by placers/npcs)
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