Sounds good long star. Please keep us advised at how your application to the Fdev Q & A department is going. We're expecting big things from you
Update 2.2: Hire a QA DEPARTMENT
- Thread starter Long Star
- Start date
Sounds good long star. Please keep us advised at how your application to the Fdev Q & A department is going. We're expecting big things from you
Agreed, and I have done the same work. The issue is not the QA department but rather "what" they are told to check and/or what specific test criteria is used. I think the complaint might have some merit if you had insulted the Play-ability Department and/or Play Testers (if they have such a group).
I am not bashing anyone, as I know how tough it is to make deadlines and produce work that hits the mark. I will not sit here and tell you that this has been a good set of patches, as I think they missed on a few things that have caused some havoc for those players that are not combat focused with game-style or ship builds, but I do see them working hard and are in the forums addressing the concerns; that is all most of us can ask.
Curious on this too. I'm sure he'd be the best member on the QA team given his (self-proclaimed) expertise.
I have to stick up for the QA guys. They've been superb, in my experience.
They have a lot of influx to deal with, and yet manage to get on top of most if not all of it.
A couple of the things fixed in 2.1.0.3 directly addressed things I myself reported on since 2.1, for instance.
I just wish they had the capacity to do more, but I mean...they are human like the rest of us.
They have a lot of influx to deal with, and yet manage to get on top of most if not all of it.
A couple of the things fixed in 2.1.0.3 directly addressed things I myself reported on since 2.1, for instance.
I just wish they had the capacity to do more, but I mean...they are human like the rest of us.
Already have a job.
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Sounds good long star. Please keep us advised at how your application to the Fdev Q & A department is going. We're expecting big things from you
Not really angling for a job at Frontier. I don't live in the UK. I'm angling for them to fix some bugs .
One of the smoothest Alpha/Beta releases I have ever taken part in... FDEV have trouble at times, but not QA / Bug kind of trouble.
Then you can imagine, how you would feel about someone, who doesn't know anything about your job, criticizing you for something you are apparently really good at.
Yeah totally baiting.
If the job were local and it met my salary requirements I'd consider doing it but realistically a job with FD wouldn't last until year 10. I can see why he wouldn't apply for the job. Not to mention who the hell would want to move to the UK? All that fog and crappy food!
If the job were local and it met my salary requirements I'd consider doing it but realistically a job with FD wouldn't last until year 10. I can see why he wouldn't apply for the job. Not to mention who the hell would want to move to the UK? All that fog and crappy food!
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I recommend a break from both the game and the forum to build up our collective stamina and tolerance
edit: I had 2 bug reports in my time playing here, both were dealt with swiftly and adequately. I am very pleased with the way FD handles them.
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Then you can imagine, how you would feel about someone, who doesn't know anything about your job, criticizing you for something you are apparently really good at.
Oh poor them. How terrible. Oh perhaps inspired to fix more bugs. Secure knowing you'll have work to do since it clearly isn't all done. Please tell me next how its a big game, big galaxy and so bugs are unavoidable, fixes too costly. Please also add that to the list of useless comments to threads on these forums. Thanks but no thanks.
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The point being here, that over half the posts are concerned with my career opportunities and not with the GD bugs. Hello?
Blackcompany
Banned
A lead game designer wouldn't hurt, either. Someone who can make a fun, compelling gaming experience out of the flight model and the terrible, disparate mechanics that exist all around it.
Because right now, Elite is not a game. Its a tech demo full of placeholder mechanics and unfinished ideas, none of which are connected in any meaningful way to the others. Its a mess, and it keeps worse with every day. Which is probably a product of trying to let logically oriented engineering minds who design flight models, lead a creative endeavor.
The point being here, you're not concerned about fixing the bugs, either. (See your OP)
If you were, you wouldn't be here, nonconstructively moaning.
You would encounter a bug, report it and let the guys at Frontier do their work. that's how bugs are squished. That's how most of us "fanboys" do it, because we care about the quality of the game.
Sniping at one another, here, in dangerous discussion, solves nothing.
Your opinion, I respect it. Please do the same for mine.
The truth about QA
G'day All. Having worked in "QA" for over 20 years, let me point out a few things.
Firstly, define quality. It's a lot like pornography - you know it when you see it. But the difficulty is defining it. Quality is a subjective statement, and what we all consider is "quality" may differ.
Secondly, A few people in the thread equate quality with an absence of defects. And yes, no defects would be a good thing, were it achievable. Consider the following, let's say we have some simple code that has 5 paths through it. Lets also assume that testing each path (writing and executing a test) takes 5 minutes. So in 25 minutes I have tested each path. Easy...
Now, lets say that these 5 paths are contained within a WHILE loop that could loop up to 20 times. The number of paths now are based on the exponentials of 5 (5, 5x5, 5x5x5) and so on up to 5 to the power of 20 (yep, 5 times itself 20 times). When you add all these together, it comes to 119,209,289,550,780! That's the number of tests required to test the aforementioned loop. If each took 5 minutes to write and execute, it would take over a billion years to test. How many possible paths/ loops/ conditions do you think are in the millions of lines of code that make up ED?
Thirdly, we could test for a verrrry long time, and cover as many possible test cases. But we cannot do them all, as that number is bloody huge. So lets say that we continued testing Horizons 2.2 until the end of 2017 (about 18 months). So not only haven't we put much of a dent in the number of possible tests, but now the users are complaining because the software hasn't been delivered.
Finally, please don't mention automation. Automated tests can be useful, but the majority of automated scripts merely throw data at a system. Automated tests should be designed to find defects, not break when they don't get an expected result. Besides, even if we could run 10,000 tests per minute, divide 119,209,289,550,780 by 10,000 and see where you end up.
So it's not as easy as "hiring a QA department..."
G'day All. Having worked in "QA" for over 20 years, let me point out a few things.
Firstly, define quality. It's a lot like pornography - you know it when you see it. But the difficulty is defining it. Quality is a subjective statement, and what we all consider is "quality" may differ.
Secondly, A few people in the thread equate quality with an absence of defects. And yes, no defects would be a good thing, were it achievable. Consider the following, let's say we have some simple code that has 5 paths through it. Lets also assume that testing each path (writing and executing a test) takes 5 minutes. So in 25 minutes I have tested each path. Easy...
Now, lets say that these 5 paths are contained within a WHILE loop that could loop up to 20 times. The number of paths now are based on the exponentials of 5 (5, 5x5, 5x5x5) and so on up to 5 to the power of 20 (yep, 5 times itself 20 times). When you add all these together, it comes to 119,209,289,550,780! That's the number of tests required to test the aforementioned loop. If each took 5 minutes to write and execute, it would take over a billion years to test. How many possible paths/ loops/ conditions do you think are in the millions of lines of code that make up ED?
Thirdly, we could test for a verrrry long time, and cover as many possible test cases. But we cannot do them all, as that number is bloody huge. So lets say that we continued testing Horizons 2.2 until the end of 2017 (about 18 months). So not only haven't we put much of a dent in the number of possible tests, but now the users are complaining because the software hasn't been delivered.
Finally, please don't mention automation. Automated tests can be useful, but the majority of automated scripts merely throw data at a system. Automated tests should be designed to find defects, not break when they don't get an expected result. Besides, even if we could run 10,000 tests per minute, divide 119,209,289,550,780 by 10,000 and see where you end up.
So it's not as easy as "hiring a QA department..."
Always nice in a thread like this when someone comes in who obviously knows what they're talking about. Cheers to you ... and a +1.
Difficult enough, even before you resort to rubbish like "oh poor them. How terrible".
Respecting opinions was never a problem, as long as they are attached to constructive discussions... :|
You know what, I actually read some of the recent criticism of Elite and found that yeah, it was good constructive criticism. Thought out points and solutions. Maybe I didn't agree entirely, but I respected them.
In this case, however, OP is just trying to join that bandwagon, but is missing the point entirely.
Criticizing without understanding what they are talking about. QA will never be perfect.
Criticizing one of the better departments in FDev. FDevs QA is one of the better in the industry. Bethesda titles are known for their buggyness. Many games from big publishers have been just plain broken on release.
Provide no solution. FDev already has a QA department and they are working hard, see the patch notes if you need proof.
You don't actually have to respect opinions. People you should respect. Peoples' right to have opinions you should respect. But the opinions themselves? If they're ludicrous they deserved to be mocked, there's nothing sacred about opinions.