General / Off-Topic Hungary Calls EU Referendum on EU's Mandatory Migrant Quotas

[Minonian]

Nobody invited them.

Merkel.

And well guess what the Countries down there are doing.
Unfortunately its not that easy to keep millions of People away from a hundreds of km long line.

True... But hard does not means it's impossible, or we cannot do what we can.

And worse we cant keep em outside because that would mean we drown them in the Mediterean Sea.

Whoa! hold on just for a minute right there! Not we are the ones whom put them in the boats, but they doing it out of their free will. How this can be our responsibility?
Not we are smuggling them to the EU but the Human smugglers. Not we are the ones whom filling the crappy boats over capacity, and in consequence, taking an incredible risk of shipwreck.
How this can be our responsibility?

And finally The coast guards and navies of the EU do what they can, and save whom they can, but they can't save everybody. Got what i meant? And ultimately, to save them not means we must escort them to an EU port, with this much power we can also turn them back to their home port, after they pulled out from the trouble.

 

[Sunleader]

Merkel.


True... But hard does not means it's impossible, or we cannot do what we can.



Whoa! hold on just for a minute right there! Not we are the ones whom put them in the boats, but they doing it out of their free will. How this can be our responsibility?
Not we are smuggling them to the EU but the Human smugglers. Not we are the ones whom filling the crappy boats over capacity, and in consequence, taking an incredible risk of shipwreck.
How this can be our responsibility?

And finally The coast guards and navies of the EU do what they can, and save whom they can, but they can't save everybody. Got what i meant? And ultimately, to save them not means we must escort them to an EU port, with this much power we can also turn them back to their home port, after they pulled out from the trouble.

1.
Merkel didnt.
No offense but that ridiculous claim was made due to Merkel yaying she wont abandon the Human Rights Charta.
AFTER Refugees alfeady were coming enmasse and even more of an joke. It was an answer to an Jounalist which asked for Merkels stance AFTER experts had said that Millions of Refugees are underway.....

This ridiculous claim that they came because Merkel invited them is rubbish.....

2.
Well if your ready to Pay roughly 50 Billions for a Border Wall and roughly 10 Billion each year for Border control it might he possible.
That is if you really dont care that Millions will Drown.

Because
3.
Sorry but no we cant.
Entering and Delivering Refugees we fished out of the Mediterean Sea back to the Country they came from. Would be an Declaration of War to that Country. Because we would enter their Borders without permission.

So unless you suggest that we Declare War to the Countries down there and press back the Refugees with Military Force.

You have two choices.

Kill them by drowning them as you dont let them go to land thus resulting in them either drowning or starving to death.
(And again if you seriously suggest that pls at least have the mercy to shoot them because thats far more humane than just keeping them out on the ocean until they die.....)

Or take them back ashore in Europe.

 

[Minonian]

1, Than why the migrants keep saying her name?

2, The thing is, we must defend our border, migrant crisis or not?

3, Drowning? Thats a possibility if they had the boats overloaded. But in this case the coast guards must pull them out. Starve to death? Well... I don't think the crew also want to starve to death with them so they will turn back to the home port. But you are right this is a problem.
In the other hand? don't make us guilty because of the accidents, because we are not! The way they smuggled in is not our doing.

Edit; If they are overloading the boat jut to get them pulled out? Bad news! the ship will be prosecuted for smuggling, endangering lives, and breach of shipping regulations. No second turn if they get you. Not to mention the fate of the crew.

Prison.

 

[Sunleader]

1, Than why the migrants keep saying her name?

2, The thing is, we must defend our border, migrant crisis or not?

3, Drowning? Thats a possibility if they had the boats overloaded. But in this case the coast guards must pull them out. Starve to death? Well... I don't think the crew also want to starve to death with them so they will turn back to the home port. But you are right this is a problem.
In the other hand? don't make us guilty because of the accidents, because we are not! The way they smuggled in is not our doing.

Edit; If they are overloading the boat jut to get them pulled out? Bad news! the ship will be prosecuted for smuggling, endangering lives, and breach of shipping regulations. No second turn if they get you. Not to mention the fate of the crew.

Prison.

1.
Because People in Southern Europe kept telling them to go to Merkel AFTER they arrived in Europe.
Interestingly people down in Africa dont know the Name that often either.


2.
Against what ?
Starving Unarmed People who are desperately trying to find a place to life?


3.
They could have a Boat in Perfect Shape if you refuse to let em ashore they.ll drown sooner or later.
No offense Mate.
But the Genocide by Turkey was also done by simply having people marsh somewhere while starving.

Stopping and refusing a Boat on the Ocean to go ashore is the same as Signing these Peoples Death Penalties.
Saying it again. If you suggest we leave em to drown and starve down there at least be so humane to Shoot them.

4.
Smugglers are almost never on the Boat.
They pull the Boat to European Waters and then drive away.
Making an simple choice for the Coast Guard.
Save them or let them Die.
If they are catchet they ARE prosecuted.
Just almost never happens.
To begin with most dont even go to water at all they just provide the Boat and information.

 

[Minonian]

2 Than what we can do? Let us to be overrun? That's cannot be a good choice.
The sad thing is, there is no good choice. Humanity versus the defense of our world? No morally good choice, in things like this. In one way or another you come out short handed, blackened. My choice in this matter simple. I defend my own. Why? Because most of my responsibility goes toward them, and somehow i must choose.

Starving unarmed people? No offense mate, but you are still under the impression most of these people are refugees. But thats not entirely true! A lot of them are illegal immigrants, and coming with the idea to stay. What's not a bad thing and they are not all bad people, and there is no racism or hatred toward them, from my part, but understand this! This much people are simply exceeds the society stress bearing capacity, and so as the EU social supply capacity.

Somehow the quantity of refugees must be reduced, what means better border defense, and stricter selection.

 

[Sunleader]

2 Than what we can do? Let us to be overrun? That's cannot be a good choice.
The sad thing is, there is no good choice. Humanity versus the defense of our world? No morally good choice, in things like this. In one way or another you come out short handed, blackened. My choice in this matter simple. I defend my own. Why? Because most of my responsibility goes toward them, and somehow i must choose.

Starving unarmed people? No offense mate, but you are still under the impression most of these people are refugees. But thats not entirely true! A lot of them are illegal immigrants, and coming with the idea to stay. What's not a bad thing and they are not all bad people, and there is no racism or hatred toward them, from my part, but understand this! This much people are simply exceeds the society stress bearing capacity, and so as the EU social supply capacity.

Somehow the quantity of refugees must be reduced, what means better border defense, and stricter selection.

Defending your own is not only resulting Mass Murder it would also be more expensive than to just offer aid and shelter.

And once more.
Migration Rules are 100% national so latest if the War ends nobody will complain if you throw em out again.


Sorry Man.
But as much as i dislike Merkel.
If i got the choice between Mass Murder and living with Refugees i.ll prefer to let the Refugees in.


To begin with.
Paying Billions for people tending and feeding refugees.
Or Paying Billions for people tending and defending a Steel Fence.

By the end of the Day no matter if Social or Financial. The Smart Choice is always to take them in.
In the First place tough. I think that our Humanity and Ideals are worth holding up.
If we drop them the moment we see some trouble we maybe should apologize to China for handling its insane population like disposable ressources. Because apparently we cant even manage a Fifth of what they are capable off.

 

[Cosmo]

Always good when democracy works. Normal that the Hungarians decide how many people will welcome in their country. Merkel and Juncker have not decide for them

Yeah that is a national issue. It should never be dictated by eurocrats.

 

[Adept]

Yes it is obvious. Who can believe that millions of young europeans unemployed (and their parents) and millions of precarious European are happy to see of millions of young migrants ? Who can believe it ?

You keep talking of migrants when the current situation is about refugees. It's much easier to be heartless when you convince yourself they aren't refugees I guess.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

No, but do you think it's any co-incidence that ISIS has become so powerful just after the governments of Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Lybia lost theirs?

Isis started as a Sunni insurgency in Iraq and was lead largely by officers sacked from Saddam's army. It is also rapidly losing ground. The best thing we can do is help the Iraqi army and other regional powers crush ISIS once and for all, and then put some serious effort into rebuilding the prosperity and security of those countries.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

2 Than what we can do? Let us to be overrun? That's cannot be a good choice.

Jesus Christ.... overrun? By refugees? This is not some invading army. These are desperate people fleeing a war and the genocidal arseholes of ISIS. Do you even realise that those guys terrorise muslims to a much greater degree than anything they manage to pull in Europe?

 

[Adept]

Hungary is free to decide to be inhuman towards people in need, but they then need to either pay their share so that other EU members do what is right, or leave the EU and continue to suffer in their self created recession.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Sorry to Burst that Bubble but.

http://europe.newsweek.com/gulf-states-are-taking-syrian-refugees-401131?rm=eu

Actually the States down there have taken Refugees on a lvl rivaling Germany and France.
Russia is by the way also taking alot of Refugees.

Well US not so much... but my opinion of them is fairly low anyways so feel free to rant on them lol.

These are old news (2010-2013) In 2015 many things have changed ----- http://info.arte.tv/fr/les-syriens-indesirables-dans-le-golfe ----- https://www.google.fr/webhp?sourcei...gugiés syriens dans le golfe persique en 2015

 

[Patrick_68000]

You keep talking of migrants when the current situation is about refugees. It's much easier to be heartless when you convince yourself they aren't refugees I guess.

These are desperate people fleeing a war and the genocidal arseholes of ISIS.

It has been demonstrated that among the refugees, many are economic migrants. Many young men Syrians to 18/25 years alone, sent to Europe by their family, to evaluate the economic opportunities. Of neighborhoods in the villages have paid the contribution for one or two young people to pay the smugglers. Many photos of columns of migrants show the hoards of young lone men

 

[Minonian]

Jesus Christ.... overrun? By refugees? This is not some invading army. These are desperate people fleeing a war and the genocidal arseholes of ISIS. Do you even realise that those guys terrorise muslims to a much greater degree than anything they manage to pull in Europe?

Than again, if they are refugees of war, why they are targeting the richer countries with the intention of stay? Understand this in this mass are not only refugees, but illegal migrants too. And while our duty to help the refugees, illegal migration is a problem.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It has been demonstrated that among the refugees, many are economic migrants. Many young men Syrians to 18/25 years alone, sent to Europe by their family, to evaluate the economic opportunities. Of neighborhoods in the villages have paid the contribution for one or two young people to pay the smugglers. Many photos of columns of migrants show the hoards of young lone men

Not to mention the terrorists, and EU citizens whom returning from a little tour from Syria. What means if we let this to go uncontrolled it means a security risk what is too high. Only a few are Terrorist? True, but how many of them are necessary, to murder thousands? Just a few...

 

[Minonian]

By the end of the Day no matter if Social or Financial. The Smart Choice is always to take them in.

Tell that to Charlie Hebdo, and the other victims of terrorist attacks.

There are not only refugees, but immigrants too, and there are not only innocent people but terrorists and escaped war criminals too. And just like you can't condemn a whole race like the racists do, you either can't call the all innocent, bot are the same mistake. Placing people to the same basket without selection....

And while our duty to help the refugees, and make no mistake! I don't say otherwise! Terrorists, and immigrants must be filtered out of the system.

 

[Surfinjo]

Isis started as a Sunni insurgency in Iraq and was lead largely by officers sacked from Saddam's army. It is also rapidly losing ground. The best thing we can do is help the Iraqi army and other regional powers crush ISIS once and for all, and then put some serious effort into rebuilding the prosperity and security of those countries.

We could abolish world poverty and cure cancer at the same time, presumably?

 

[Minonian]

We could abolish world poverty and cure cancer at the same time, presumably?

No you can't. It won't work. But Adept is right about what he said everybody must fight his own battles, otherwise he cant develop, can't became better. That's their problem, to deal with it, but also ours so we must fight together. But but its their territory, their dirt to clean up so what we can and must do because they cant face it alone to help them.

 

[Surfinjo]

No you can't. It won't work. But Adept is right about what he said everybody must fight his own battles, otherwise he cant develop, can't became better. That's their problem, to deal with it, but also ours so we must fight together. But but its their territory, their dirt to clean up so what we can and must do because they cant face it alone to help them.

That isn't what he said at all.

Isis started as a Sunni insurgency in Iraq and was lead largely by officers sacked from Saddam's army. It is also rapidly losing ground. The best thing we can do is help the Iraqi army and other regional powers crush ISIS once and for all, and then put some serious effort into rebuilding the prosperity and security of those countries.

And given those ambitions, which you presumably share, can you say if you will be prepared to extend whatever wand you think is available to curing world hunger?

 

[Sunleader]

Yeah that is a national issue. It should never be dictated by eurocrats.

Your beyond help seriously....

These are old news (2010-2013) In 2015 many things have changed ----- http://info.arte.tv/fr/les-syriens-indesirables-dans-le-golfe ----- https://www.google.fr/webhp?sourcei...gugiés syriens dans le golfe persique en 2015

Ehm Mate.
No Offense to you. But I dont Speak French.
Also. Mate yes its Old News. Because by 2013 Saudi Arabia already had over 1 Million Refugees Taken in.

People on the Right Wing claim they aint taking in Refugees because Saudi Arabia is not part of the UNs Human Rights Charter. Thus Saudi Arabia has not actually agreed to take in Refugees. But is taking them in anyways just under a different Name.
So as Saudi Arabia is not Registering Refugees as Refugees under the UNHCR Treaty which they are not Part off. They are listed as having 0 Refugees.
Just that this is not True. There is currently an Estimated 4 Million People taking Refugee down in these States.

Sorry Mate. But yes the Article is from December 2015 and Listing Statistics from 2013
Unfortunately that means that in 2013 Saudi Arabia had already taken in Way more Refugees than most EU States.........


Do you know just how Pitiful it is that Saudi Arabia is able to Critizise us on our Humane Response of Refugees telling us that our Inhuman treatment of People who lost their Homes is Barbaric ?

Tell that to Charlie Hebdo, and the other victims of terrorist attacks.

There are not only refugees, but immigrants too, and there are not only innocent people but terrorists and escaped war criminals too. And just like you can't condemn a whole race like the racists do, you either can't call the all innocent, bot are the same mistake. Placing people to the same basket without selection....

And while our duty to help the refugees, and make no mistake! I don't say otherwise! Terrorists, and immigrants must be filtered out of the system.

Sigh you with your Immigrants.
Mate once more. Immigration Laws are 100% National. They have NOTHING to do with the EU.
The EU is demanding that the EU Countries either Pay or Camp Refugees for the Period of Refuge. This IS NOT Immigration. And unless they pass the normal Immigration Process of that Countries Laws. They cannot Immigrate. Period.

And also. FILTERING AND REGISTRATION of Refugees is also 100% National. And is in no Ways affected by EU Laws except that there is an Security Agreement about Sharing Information on Terrorist Activities to Protect each other.
So Sorry but thats also not in the least Affected by this.

Nobody Demands that you take the Refugees Relocated to you without Registering or Checking them. Well to begin with tough the ones Relocating are the ones which have been Registered and are Going through such Checks to begin with. As they need to Apply for this.


Unfortunately I have to Debunk another thing here.
The Right Wing Parties keep Crying about Refugees bringing Terrorists in. And even ISIS Continues Claiming they will bring in Terrorists with the Refugees.
Unfortunately I have to Dissappoint you.
Terrorists immigrating to a Country for Terrorism are actually almost NEVER coming as Refugees. In Opposite most of the Terrorists which come Planning to Attack have good Money Reserves and Education and thus are easily going over the Immigration Laws because Companies offer them Jobs to Immigrate.
The Few Incidents were People came as Refugees were Minor Incidents. And Joke is even in those Incident they were Radicalized over here by Media and Local Preachers and not before they came here.

The Reason why ISIS keeps saying they would bring in Terrorists this way. Is for 2 Reasons.

1.
Creating an Anti Muslim Scenery they can use for Propaganda and causing Refugees to be Treatet Badly helps Greatly in making them more gullible for ISIS Propaganda and Radicalisation.
2.
People leaving Syria is Killing the ISIS Economy. Similar to the DDR back then. If People are leaving your Country you lose Workers and Potential Recruits. Which is very bad for ISIS as they are in heavy need of Cash and Recruits.

Also just adding this.
Charly Hebdo was Killed by People Born, Raised and Radicalized in Paris. Not by Refugees.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...hebdo-attackers-kids-france-radicalised-paris

 

[Minonian]

Sigh you with your Immigrants.
Mate once more. Immigration Laws are 100% National. They have NOTHING to do with the EU.

The EU is demanding that the EU Countries either Pay or Camp Refugees for the Period of Refuge. This IS NOT Immigration. And unless they pass the normal Immigration Process of that Countries Laws. They cannot Immigrate. Period.

Don't you think this two are contradiction? IF its within our rights, than how they can do demands? Furthermore, as i said most of these people are selling them selfs as refugees, but in reality, they are immigrants.

Nobody Demands that you take the Refugees Relocated to you without Registering or Checking them. Well to begin with tough the ones Relocating are the ones which have been Registered and are Going through such Checks to begin with. As they need to Apply for this.

No? If they are punishing us, making us pay fees if we don't take them in than yes they are...

Unfortunately I have to Debunk another thing here.
The Right Wing Parties keep Crying about Refugees bringing Terrorists in. And even ISIS Continues Claiming they will bring in Terrorists with the Refugees.
Unfortunately I have to Dissappoint you.
Terrorists immigrating to a Country for Terrorism are actually almost NEVER coming as Refugees. In Opposite most of the Terrorists which come Planning to Attack have good Money Reserves and Education and thus are easily going over the Immigration Laws because Companies offer them Jobs to Immigrate.

Do you seriously think there is no one within them? Do you really think the radical propagandists are not coming with them? They are not trying to recruit the second and third generation immigrants? Do you seriously think the ones coming with them going to attack immediately? No... They are keep their head down, build in, strengthening their positions, picking up contact with each others, building up the cell structure of such organizations, and they are going to wait for years before they strike. be assured! They are already there. The ones came with the immigrant mass are not suicide bombers, but vanguard, and they are here to build up the organization in Europe.

Good morning!

We have been infiltrated...

 

[Sunleader]

Don't you think this two are contradiction? IF its within our rights, than how they can do demands? Furthermore, as i said most of these people are selling them selfs as refugees, but in reality, they are immigrants.


No? If they are punishing us, making us pay fees if we don't take them in than yes they are...




Do you seriously think there is no one within them? Do you really think the radical propagandists are not coming with them? They are not trying to recruit the second and third generation immigrants? Do you seriously think the ones coming with them going to attack immediately? No... They are keep their head down, build in, strengthening their positions, picking up contact with each others, building up the cell structure of such organizations, and they are going to wait for years before they strike. be assured! They are already there. The ones came with the immigrant mass are not suicide bombers, but vanguard, and they are here to build up the organization in Europe.

Good morning!

We have been infiltrated...

1.
Mate.
Refugees ARE NOT Immigrants.
No Doubt some of them Hope to Immigrate this way. But they are Stupid because this LOWERS their Chance to be Granted an Residence Permit.

Refugees are TIME LIMITED SHELTER. They get Shelter but they neither are allowed to take Jobs nor are getting Social Welfare etc etc.
And heck they dont get Residence Permits or anything else they could use to actually start a Life. They cannot steal your Jobs they cannot really do anything. Heck they cannot even move Freely in alot of cases and are Restricted to their Camps and Shelters.
Stop claiming that they would get Immigration Rights or something.

The EU is Relocating REFUGEEs. NOT Immigrants. There is absolutely NO Law which would Force anyone to give them Immigration Rights or anything like that.


2.
Ehm Mate. What Stops you from Registering them and Checking them ?
You think if you find a Terrorist and throw him into Prison the EU Will complain ????

Also. Ehm Mate. Your Part of the EU. An Community Lifes from everyone Helping out. In exchange everyone also gets the Benefits. Dont you think its pretty selfish if you demand to get the Benefits but dont want to help out when there is Trouble ?



3.
See Mate and exactly there is where your entirely wrong and Believing the Right Wing Bull    .

Think of it from the View of ISIS.

You got 3 Methods of bringing Terrorists to the EU.

1.
Send an Terrorist Cell which is Educated and brings some Money for Operations.
They are almost Guaranteed to get in as Companies need Educated Workers. They run little to no Risk because hardly anyone Suspects them in Public as they have an easy time to Integrate.
They easily get their Hands on the Stuff they need as they easily get Money and a Job.
And they got the Skills to actually cause Damage.

2.
Radicalize People on the Scene. To make them go Berserk.
This is easy because you always have unhappy people and its always easy to get some of these People Radical.
So unless you Suggest we Kill every Muslim we have (Genocide) you will never prevent this.
Risk to ISIS absolute Zero cause for them its just Wasting our Ressources not their own.


3.
Send Terrorists as Refugees
Extremely Risky Method because your Terrorist has take Risky Routes and might not even Arrive in Europe. Because if he comes other ways he will be easily Detected in later Checks.
He gets no Working Permission in most Places and cannot Bring Money along. Meaning his Capacity of getting Weapons or anything else done is very Low.
He cannot Integrate Properly because he is Viewed with insane Suspicion and cannot even decide to which Country he goes meaning he cant come with a Learned Language or Education for this Place. He cannot get Contacts or Integrate meaning he cant get his hands on stuff he Needs.
Generally the worst Terrorist Activity these guys can do is Attacking someone with a Knife.


So tell me. Which Method would you use when you Send Terrorists ?
Mate no Offense but this Terrorists coming as Refugees stuff is Nonsense.
ISIS has much much easier and more Effective ways to Send their People here.
They wont use an Inefficient and Restricitve Method like sending them as Refugees

 

[Minonian]

So tell me. Which Method would you use when you Send Terrorists ?

Both. Quality, and quantity together.

What you lack of numbers, you can make up with with preparedness. what you lack in preparedness you make up with numbers. Plus, the leaders are need foot soldiers too...
And these are going to come from within the migrants.