NEW to Flight Games! First Post.

[Envisage]

Hi guys, Envisage here.

I'm totally new to flight games, but am really looking forward to Elite Dangerous. I've purchased premium beta just 2 days ago, and whilst initial reaction to loading the first scenario was utter disappointment in being unable to even maneuver, 2 days later now, I'm up to the 2nd last combat scenario.

I'm currently considering my input options. I was looking at the Saitek x-55 Rhino, as it appears to be robust... to say the least. But a new idea has started to take shape. I'm feeling that as this game is space, not air borne combat, I've being mentally toying with the idea of dual stick controls!

The way I'm seeing it is having left stick (can you even get left handed sticks?) would be thrust and roll, with right stick being pitch and (limited) yaw. This puts all my aiming in one hand, and most of my flight in the other. As a totally new to flight sims gamer, this SEEMS to make sense to me.

Oh, side note: I was going to put vert and horizontal thrusting on a 8 direction hat on right stick, with binds to enable 8 axis thrusting as well as weapon groupings on a hat on left stick. This would be so whilst I have split them into nav and combat, I'm still able to use both hands at once for any given scenario with out slowing my self down with playing too many buttons on each hand at a time.



SO. Is this even possible to set up dual stick?
Any major concerns I should be aware of?
What sticks might I be looking at when I won't any longer require twist options (I was looking at the X-55 Rhino from Saitek as mentioned before).

Finally, hello to the community.
I was hoping someone could point out "beginner threads" I should read given my nubness level regarding any kind of game like this one. I plan to get good at it quick, and master it eventually

Thanks for reading, and extra thanks to any replies.

Cheers,
Envisage.

 

[mr71mb0]

Hi, glad you took the plunge and are enjoying it

Elite might not be a flight sim in the conventional sense but actually it does fly and control very similarly to an aeroplane. In this respect a hotas flight stick is perfect.

I fly with a saitek x52 Pro and it's officially supported in Elite D. Every button is mapped to something sensible.

The main stick in your right hand is pitch, roll and yaw ( twist the stick). So all of your aiming is in the right stick already. Throttle is handled by the left, and on the back of the throttle is an 8 way hat which is your vector thrust (up / down, left / right strafe). It all feels right and totally intuitive to me.

The x55 is a newer model but fully supported buy Elite D ( I think), but you can also customise all the confirms totally if you need to.

My personal view of you suggestion of 2 sticks is that trying to maintain accurate control of 2 analogue sticks might reduce your accuracy. While trying to sim accurately with the right, I think you might end up drifting with your left for example. But I've not fm tried it so it may not be an issue.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Finally, hello to the community.
I was hoping someone could point out "beginner threads" I should read given my nubness level regarding any kind of game like this one. I plan to get good at it quick, and master it eventually .

Hi Envisage

Welcome to the forums - hope you enjoy Beta.

A good place to start for information on the game, whilst not set in stone of course, would be the DDF Archives. FD from time to time post an interesting concept or suggestion; the DDF think it over and give their ideas; FD take the responses into consideration and some of the idea may make it to game.

 

[Anthony Jones]

Hi Envisage

I have an x65f and it works well for me. If I was to get a joystick now it would be the x52 pro or the x55

You may find this thread on joysticks in ED helpful
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10967

 

[neogeo]

Hi, glad you took the plunge and are enjoying it

Elite might not be a flight sim in the conventional sense but actually it does fly and control very similarly to an aeroplane. In this respect a hotas flight stick is perfect.

In addition to what mr71mb0 said, the ships are designed to be able to fly into and out of planet atmospheres (observe the way the ships are designed) so keeping an aeroplane like joystick setup may help when the 1:1 planetary atmosphere flythrough and planet landings expansion comes later on (current ETA is sometime in 2015). However from what I have read on the forums, your proposed setup is definitely feasible.

Also a great site to get loads of info on E: D is the unofficial wiki @ http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/

 

[Enride]

Hi guys, Envisage here.

I'm totally new to flight games, but am really looking forward to Elite Dangerous. I've purchased premium beta just 2 days ago, and whilst initial reaction to loading the first scenario was utter disappointment in being unable to even maneuver, 2 days later now, I'm up to the 2nd last combat scenario.

I'm currently considering my input options. I was looking at the Saitek x-55 Rhino, as it appears to be robust... to say the least. But a new idea has started to take shape. I'm feeling that as this game is space, not air borne combat, I've being mentally toying with the idea of dual stick controls!

The way I'm seeing it is having left stick (can you even get left handed sticks?) would be thrust and roll, with right stick being pitch and (limited) yaw. This puts all my aiming in one hand, and most of my flight in the other. As a totally new to flight sims gamer, this SEEMS to make sense to me.

Oh, side note: I was going to put vert and horizontal thrusting on a 8 direction hat on right stick, with binds to enable 8 axis thrusting as well as weapon groupings on a hat on left stick. This would be so whilst I have split them into nav and combat, I'm still able to use both hands at once for any given scenario with out slowing my self down with playing too many buttons on each hand at a time.



SO. Is this even possible to set up dual stick?
Any major concerns I should be aware of?
What sticks might I be looking at when I won't any longer require twist options (I was looking at the X-55 Rhino from Saitek as mentioned before).

Finally, hello to the community.
I was hoping someone could point out "beginner threads" I should read given my nubness level regarding any kind of game like this one. I plan to get good at it quick, and master it eventually

Thanks for reading, and extra thanks to any replies.

Cheers,
Envisage.

Hi and welcome!

I know some ppl are experimenting with dual stick options but my advicebwould be to (at least initially) begin with a hotas such as the x55.
It will give u full control at a very intuitive setup that will work well with any and every flightgame.

Later on, you can expand with pedals or if u prefer a second stick suitable for left hand operation.

In any case, welcome to a wonderful hobby that knows no boundaries (or cost limits )

 

[Envisage]

Ok, So this is all very interesting information.

ESPECIALLY the fact that it will have atmospheric flight. It's my understanding that THIS is where a throttle comes into play. It seemed rather ill fitted for space combat, due to lack of vert/horz thrusting precision, in place of thruster accuracy.

It appeared to have a reverse focus of what I will find useful in combat. But in atmospheric flight I've read that you NEED accurate thrust control.


I still love the idea of micro movements right hand and macro movements left hand. I'm about as close to ambidextrous as you get with out being a circus freak So the challenge of two sticks at once is something I'd find engaging.

I have not yet seen where I will want pedals in this system however.



Some deeper reading of this forum has given me some concerns over the direction of the game. The server structure is set up for multi-player, but the mechanics are not? I'm epic confused on this topic. Will I be able to fly in on someone with some friends and engage them?

Will I even be able to play with my friends? The plan is to drag 4 experienced pilots in after I give them beta impressions, and up to 5 total noobs like myself.

Don't tell me I should have bought Star Citizen. It's fraught with technical issues and I don't have a lot of faith in an on time release that doesn't feel like a beta, and I've held out a lot of hope for this game based on smatterings of "details" that have arisen over the last 6 months on the net. It seemed highly appealing.

What's your impression? Did I misread the game intention? Or shall I be pleasantly surprised. One impression I get is I might end up playing both the major competitors. ED for flight experience, and SCitizen for pvp pew pew.

I would prefer my desires be fulfilled in this one game.

 

[Envisage]

Side Note.

I can buy the X-52 Pro today, and have it delivered in about 5 days. The price is good.

I can wait a month for the x-55 Rhino to come in stock... the price is VERY good (hardly anything more at all really)

I can't find any left handed joysticks that have many buttons on them Especially not one with an 8 direction hat on it.

 

[Lestat]

My personal view of you suggestion of 2 sticks is that trying to maintain accurate control of 2 analogue sticks might reduce your accuracy. While trying to sim accurately with the right, I think you might end up drifting with your left for example. But I've not fm tried it so it may not be an issue.

I have played games with Dual flight sticks Descent 3 and I was very good at it. I just wish Elite would support both.

My old topic on Support for Dual controllers

I did get Saitek 52x classic and works great. The left hand not much in miro management But if you use Rotation controls you can get very close to that and use the hat control for full power controls for up down left and right Thrusters

 

[Xzanron]

Some deeper reading of this forum has given me some concerns over the direction of the game. The server structure is set up for multi-player, but the mechanics are not? I'm epic confused on this topic. Will I be able to fly in on someone with some friends and engage them?

Will I even be able to play with my friends? The plan is to drag 4 experienced pilots in after I give them beta impressions, and up to 5 total noobs like myself.

Yes. Is the short answer.

Elite will have Mutli-Player (MMO style), Online Single Player (Shared universe, but no one else), Offline Single Player.

This post should answer a lot of questions: http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2721

 

[Envisage]

Ok great

Now I'm going to get the Rhino for my first HOTAS, but I'll be mailing Saitek concerning an appropriate left handed flight stick as well. I think problem solved at about +100 dollars. I have a left handed friend so if I don't prefer it I can pass it on to him and drag him into the game as well

He's also spent money on me in the past on games, so a little returned favor (perhaps) won't go astray.

So. How do I manage getting people into my "friends list" to play with them regularly? I just read it might not be possible at all?!

I have a TS3 50 man server. It rarely gets used, I think I might offer it up to the forum users here as a meet and greet location, and set up some rooms for people? Would that be of benefit at all to anyone?

Finally, can I download the beta yet?

 

[Slawkenbergius]

If you have an Xbox Controller (or similar) you could test various dual-stick configs, as that's basically what the thumbsticks are. Personally I prefer HOTAS, so the Rhino should be quite good for that. The twist (for yaw) really helps, though maybe pedals would be even better.

One totally over-the-top solution I could think of is:

• Right-hand stick: Pitch/Roll/Yaw
• Left-hand stick: Vertical/Lateral thrust
• Pedals: Forward/Reverse thrust

Finally, can I download the beta yet?

It's out on the 30th. Fingers crossed...

 

[Tylermon]

What to fly with. This always seems to be the question and when space games are involved this becomes to some, much more interesting.

In space, you can move in any direction.
But you also need to remember, you have a forward facing cockpit.

There is, for all sakes and purposes an up down, forward and backwards while within your own ship.

As for a throttle. Think of this as your main engines. In all honesty a ship is not going to have engines of equal strengths on all sides. The rear engine is the most powerful and offers "forward" thrust.

So a throttle makes perfect sense.
And in my opinion offers much more control on maintaining and operating specific speeds than a stick can.

There is also the consideration that most jets and aircraft use a pedal system to control Yaw.
Foot pedals might be a good investment.

Some fanatics have argued that spaceships shouldnt use pedals because they dont have traditional rope/rudder systems.
To those people I always say its not implementation, its the use. Those pedals can still easily control thrusters that control the yaw of a ship.

These cover all of your main controls. What you are missing is vertical and strafing movement.
These thruster are easily assigned to hat switches on most throttles.

Fun fact, The Thrustmaster Warthog has a slew control(works much like a stick in itself but is moved with a finger on the throttle)
This could be used to control vertical and horizontal movements.

keeping a full range of motion right at your fingertips.

And providing high accuracy and control.

Not to say two sticks does not work.

But looking at even helicopters(same range of motion as a spacecraft(for the most part)) we use one stick.

I guess I am saying if you are going for good control and realism, pedals would be a good consideration over two sticks.

 

[Severian]

Much the same advice as Tylermon, but using CH Products. Mini analogue joystick on the CH Throttle for thrusters, and CH Peddles for yaw, along with the CH Combatstick all work together very intuitively.

 

[RickDangerous]

The way I'm seeing it is having left stick (can you even get left handed sticks?) would be thrust and roll, with right stick being pitch and (limited) yaw. This puts all my aiming in one hand, and most of my flight in the other. As a totally new to flight sims gamer, this SEEMS to make sense to me.

Oh, side note: I was going to put vert and horizontal thrusting on a 8 direction hat on right stick, with binds to enable 8 axis thrusting as well as weapon groupings on a hat on left stick. This would be so whilst I have split them into nav and combat, I'm still able to use both hands at once for any given scenario with out slowing my self down with playing too many buttons on each hand at a time.

I use a Xbox controller, and have it set up EXACTLY as above, for same reasons. Large movement on left stick, small movements on right. Vert/horizontal on the hat, but split so that in combat they are target ahead, closest hostile, target subsystem, and next fire group.

Works for me

 

[Eleazyair]

The main stick in your right hand is pitch, roll and yaw ( twist the stick). So all of your aiming is in the right stick already. Throttle is handled by the left, and on the back of the throttle is an 8 way hat which is your vector thrust (up / down, left / right strafe). It all feels right and totally intuitive to me.

I was wondering how the setup would work!