Actually, Wing Commander Privateer is extremely similar to Elite Dangerous, to the point that Elite has many aspects that were actually originally implemented in Privateer. Essentially the core gameplay experiences in Privateer actually feature the same "open universe" approach, including mission boards that spawned randomly-generated missions involving combat/trading/etc. The ship purchase and upgrade process was also very similar, with core ship classes that could be individually customized for different roles. In many ways I see Elite as the first true "successor" to Privateer that has captured the same "feel" for an open-ended space combat/trading universe.
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Actually, Wing Commander Privateer is extremely similar to Elite Dangerous, to the point that Elite has many aspects that were actually originally implemented in Privateer. Essentially the core gameplay experiences in Privateer actually feature the same "open universe" approach, including mission boards that spawned randomly-generated missions involving combat/trading/etc. The ship purchase and upgrade process was also very similar, with core ship classes that could be individually customized for different roles. In many ways I see Elite as the first true "successor" to Privateer that has captured the same "feel" for an open-ended space combat/trading universe.
Elite is the 'successor' to Privateer? Isn't that putting the cart before the horse?
Elite predates 'Wing Commander' by 6 years and predates 'Privateer' by 9 years.
That depends on how "modern" you view the original Elite, i.e., did it really have the full set of features that we saw in Privateer? Essentially Privateer, other than the graphics and procedural generation, does all the same things Elite Dangerous does, which is why I consider it the first "modern" open universe space sim. It's also debatable how much Privateer was "influenced" by the original Elite, given that at that point (1993) Wing Commander was a fully-developed franchise and game universe and didn't really have any need to "borrow" anything from Elite in any meaningful way. On the other hand, Privateer sort of "set the standard" for modern space combat/trading games, much like the original X-wing did for 3D space sims (although again, this was influenced heavily by original Wing Commander series). Personally I don't think the original Elite was "advanced" enough to really meet the benchmark that Privateer did in terms of having a complete set of features and a fully-rendered space combat engine.
Me personally, I see ED as the first true successor to Frontier Elite II and Frontier 2, First Encounters (with FE2 coming out in 1993, around the same time as privateer).
I would actually consider the X Series to be more of a successor privateer (especially privateer 2) and a bridge between that game and ED. Privateer (and indeed the X series) were actually heavily influenced by Elite, which came out in 1984, way before Wing Commander. By 1993, Elite was already on its second iteration with FE2, a game that came out around the same time as Privateer. It already had the open ended trade, and Exploring gameplay that it is famous for.
Then there was Frontier First Encounters, which hit the deck almost a year before Privateer 2. Granted it was full of bugs on initial release but the same exploration, and trading mechanic was still there.
In fact, the one thing (and only thing) that ED has in common with Privateer 1 and 2 (that didn't come from any influence by Elite itself) is the flight mechanic. This is the only thing that is similar, at least in space, to either of those games.
Many of the features in Privateer were also in Frontier: Elite II. The games were released the same year. Of course 'Privateer' had more features then the original Elite did: Elite was limited by the available memory and processing power of the old 8-bit home computer era while Privateer had the advantage of a 16-bit CPU and hundreds of kilobytes of RAM. Still, I'd argue that the original Elite was a better implementation. Neither Wing Commander or Privateer actually rendered a real 3D world. The full color '3D' enemy ships were actually bitmap graphics. If the enemy ship turned right the bitmap was replaced to simulate the ship turning in space. The original Elite and its successors actually calculated the enemy ships using either vectors graphics or polygons. In the end Wing Commander and Privateer did look better, don't get me wrong, but Elite is closer to what we see in modern video games then WC and Privateer.
I'm thoroughly familiar with the Wing Commander series but I never played the X Series games although I heard good things about them. I also never played the original Elite or the subsequent "sequels" in the 90's although if I had heard of them at the time I definitely would have been interested as Privateer was probably my favourite game of that entire decade. For some reason the Elite series never seemed to get the same popularity/advertising that the Wing Commander series got around the same time and my first introduction to the Elite universe was actually with Elite Dangerous. It's hard for me to tell which games were directly influenced by which as there was likely a lot of overlap that was due more to common themes and game design elements than necessarily "borrowing" anything directly between the different games. This actually reminds me of the debate they had when DS9 and Babylon 5 were first on the air, both were accused of "plagiarizing" the other when they were really cases of each series independently using many of the same features/plot lines simply because it made the most sense in both cases.
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Interestingly enough the first "3D" game engine that the Wing Commander series used was actually Wing Commander Armada in 1994 which used a primitive 3D engine that was a "testbed" for the engine used Wing Commander III. Prior to this it was really X-Wing (1993) that was pioneering fully-rendered 3D graphics so it was sort of inevitable that Wing Commander would go in that direction as well, although Wing Commander III pioneered the FMV cutscenes and live-actor "interactive movie" format. In this sense I suppose that Elite had been doing 3D-style graphics before either of these series although again it's debatable whether "wireframe" 3D models is really equivalent to the 3D graphics we got in X-Wing or Wing Commander III.
I don't expect good missions before walking around gets implemented.
The original 'Elite' (at least in its conversions to some of the other platforms) was not limited to wireframes. Elite on the Archimedes (1991) used polygons:
Elite: Plus was basically just an updated version that took advantage of better graphics on the IBM PC (also released in 1991) and sported similar visuals to the Archimedes version:
Not to mention that FE2 which came out around the same time as the original privateer used a 3d graphics engine, in 1993, had planetary landings and even a smidgen of texture mapping. That was running on the Amiga and on DOS.
Then there was Frontier First Encounters which, if you could get past its buggy nature, had absolutely gorgeous graphics for the time too.
I remember one or two planetary missions in WC3 but nothing to the extent that Elite could do.
Both games are still very playable (in some form) on modern PC's without the use of DOSBOX. If only someone could manage to port the flight model from ED over to their current iterations. I mean, as much as people liked the fully Newtonian flight model that they have I personally hated it.
Still loved both games, just really made use of the autopilot, something that nobody should ever really need in ED.
1984 vs
1984 (Elite):
1993 (Frontier Elite 2 PC):
1993 (Frontier Elite 2 Amiga):
1993 (Privateer PC):
1995 (Frontier First Encounters):
1996 (Privateer 2):
Just for completeness:
The modded versions that will run on a modern PC, in Windows:
Frontier Elite 2 (GL Frontier):
Frontier First Encounters (D3d):
Both of which can be obtained from here:
http://www.frontierastro.co.uk/index.html
If anyone wants to look at them.
1984 (Elite):
[video=youtube;x6m4DwkYgGs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6m4DwkYgGs[/video]
1993 (Frontier Elite 2 PC):
[video=youtube;NzveVFilqMU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzveVFilqMU[/video]
1993 (Frontier Elite 2 Amiga):
[video=youtube;GzEj4Gq7fT4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzEj4Gq7fT4[/video]
1993 (Privateer PC):
[video=youtube;FGg706GHCSk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGg706GHCSk[/video]
1995 (Frontier First Encounters):
[video=youtube;gcdnVmTb__g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcdnVmTb__g[/video]
1996 (Privateer 2):
Well I'd post it here but it takes almost half an hour of FMV, before you get into a space ship and see actual game graphics (which are quite good)...
Still, if you want to see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX8dAfEeBJE&list=PL75B227412649E155
Still, if you want to see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX8dAfEeBJE&list=PL75B227412649E155
Just for completeness:
The modded versions that will run on a modern PC, in Windows:
Frontier Elite 2 (GL Frontier):
[video=youtube;2t5vXCWzmYM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t5vXCWzmYM[/video]
Frontier First Encounters (D3d):
[video=youtube;35bqQpWc0Jw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35bqQpWc0Jw[/video]
Both of which can be obtained from here:
http://www.frontierastro.co.uk/index.html
If anyone wants to look at them.
WC1-2-3 and Privateer were a pinnacle of this genre. Ships had all very different cockpits, and cockpits at that time were designed to resemble an actual craft, with panels, switches etc; not something that magically appears in the air. Ship systems themselves were ofthen drawed in the screens, not written in lists; since WC1 we had a beautiful ship schematic with weapons and damage. Stations had different flavors, not only outside but inside too, with different actual environments/rooms, not some menu! There were characters to speak to, all nicely drawed, without ANY need to create a full-fledged first-person mode. There was nice music fitting for the mood of each specific place. Factions were few, but clearly defined, and npc encounters were simple but made sense; there was nothing like the respawning 'mob zones' of today or the furball-mix of ships going up and down without any sense whatsoever. In Privateer at every jump and navpoint you would encounter either: nothing, the law, pirates, a lone trader, aliens, or an ongoing battle between either 2 of those; after the fight was over in that particular instance, it was over, it wouldn't restart by respawning, as that would have killed immersion. In the 90s we used to know that such mechanics like spawning should be totally hidden in order to create a more immersive experience. Certain other games even had permanent npcs in the 90s which you could follow around the galaxy. Not to mention the brilliant implementation of space battles in the Xwing and Tie Fighter series. There were communications with the npcs, extremely simple but still interactive and with some variation. Difficulty and variation in the fights was just right, you could always reload a save if things went too bad for you, and you could try being the hero every time or die trying, without risking a heart attack or being put back in progress due to mmo-style losses. I strongly believe the complexities of making a 3D and online game got to the point were we miss certain basic stuff today, because the mountain is just too high to climb with this supercomplicated technology. ED is getting many things right anyway, and I havent been so hooked to a space game since Privateer itself, so it's just a general rant, we are only barely emerging from 15 years of death in the space genre. I'm hopeful, maybe in another 10 years everything will get right again.
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I agree ED is never going to have the story structure of WC. I also agree missions are getting better HOWEVER it boggles me why there are not 10x more templates for the existing missions and there are so many low hanging fruit missions missing (stealth recording people, planting a bomb kind of terrorism, sector patrol, ship escort and protect etc) the current ship in distress mission is done so badly it blows my mind.
The missions in the training mode feel more immersive than the actual game. I love what we have but imo some here are way to lenient on making excuses for FD imo
The missions in the training mode feel more immersive than the actual game. I love what we have but imo some here are way to lenient on making excuses for FD imo
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Yeah, this is very surprising/annoying. But IIRC, according to FDev (in one of their videos), even an apparently simple delivery mission can have 50 (?) different states to take account of (and the cloud database & networking doubtless complicates stuff further). Seems a bit crazy to me, but there you go.
I'm just hoping that now they've FINALLY settled on a Mission System with sufficient complexity to allow interesting mission events & multi-part missions, that they'll be able to (finish) debugging the current missions AND add even better new ones.
Do you realize it's two different kind of games, right? The first is a mission based simulator, while the second is an open game simulator.
At first, I was thinking someone was going to compare Elite: Dangerous with Frontier: Elite 2. There we could have some more ground up for discussions, like:
1 - Planets where landable in the first place, with no need for a poorly marketed season pass. (I got an horrible golden Asp skin out of it, for trusting FDev and preordering.)
2 - Much more ships in Frontier than in E: D.
3 - Taxi mission, that were present in the very first installment, again no need for the poorly marketed season pass.
4 - Pseudo-multicrew. If nothing you could man your turrets.
Obviously, the game got much more improvements on the piloting mechanics and general graphics, but still compared to earlier Elite Games you feel disappointed...