The Star Citizen Thread v5

[briguy168]

Actually, my release date was 2014. It was still part of the agreement for those orders too.

This is exactly why you aren't neutral, because you don't even know that the scope was still less than 17 mil when I ordered and the scope wasn't the 65 mil or even higher. Instead, you want to instantly jump the gun and place blame or state things were significantly different when they weren't and yet you consistently jump in to make it seem like anyone that brings CR/RSI/CIG under the heat lamp to expose their shenanigans appear as they what they are saying holds less water than it really does. It's like the rest of the SC faithful, always changing the requirements/goal posts/criteria which, oddly enough, is CR/CIG/RSI's mantra.

No, I'm showing you how wrong you are. That 2014 year was not listed on the RSI website except during the kickstarter. You keep on saying that they are late when the date you love to use for this claim was based on the kickstarter. The kickstarter ToS specifically says that it's not a release/fill-by date. Thereby, you are incorrect. You don't have to like it but these are the facts.

Again I have my concerns about this company but nothing is egregious as you proclaim them to be. And for the record, I said I wasn't a CIG apologist and not that I was neutral. Everything thing I have posted has been in defense of what the facts are (although I may have gotten some of the facts wrong).

 

[briguy168]

Star citizen's kickstarter estimated the delivery to arrive in november 2014, the date is still there on all packages on the original kickstarter. ToS 1.1 had this clause

Funny how you didn't bold this part "However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time."

Also, is there some defining date that clarifies what "on or before the estimated delivery date" means or are you assuming that it was the kickstarter date because it says estimated delivery date?

I'm going to re-read the this version of the tos (it's been a while since I read it) because if this is true than you all are correct.

 

[VidarSnipes]

Why would CIG include the "estimated delivery date" wording in their ToS and modified it twice, once extending that deadline, and once removing it altogether, if they didn't have any date in mind?

 

[Stigbob]

It would be ironic if the "fightback" against refunds killed the project by deterring potential customers.

 

[briguy168]

Why would CIG include the "estimated delivery date" wording in their ToS and modified it twice, once extending that deadline, and once removing it altogether, if they didn't have any date in mind?

They may have a date in mind but no where except the kickstarter, so far, that I've seen that the estimated release date was Nov '14. As for your other comment, I'm not an employee that works at CIG's legal team so I cannot comment about that. Does raise an eyebrow though.

 

[SkUnimatrix]

Yeah it's from 10ftc episode 75. The one where he gets annoyed at people asking about star marine. After that he talks about the upcoming stealth mechanics, like going through vents and putting up a holoduke (guess he finally played duke nukem 3D). He then adds, that they want cover mechanics in 2.2. (guess they missed it) and later versions will have vaulting and sliding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGreb21dKdg jump to 18:30 for the whole star marine thing

I guess that is now 2.7 or are they working on a magic version that will actually include Star Marine....or was that just last month? Sorry, it's been a crazy past couple weeks around my household so I've only been half paying attention.

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They may have a date in mind but no where except the kickstarter, so far, that I've seen that the estimated release date was Nov '14. As for your other comment, I'm not an employee that works at CIG's legal team so I cannot comment about that. Does raise an eyebrow though.

20 May 2013 interview with Forbes Magazine and Citizen Con 2013 presentation include those dates on slides as well as the kickstarter. Multi-references given, and the CitizenCon presentation was streamed on their website, would be enough to prove that was the estimated release date given to backers and reinforced throughout multiple public statements by company officers.

Now that home improvement projects are finished and wife's medical stuff is taken care we can sit down and do a couple videos covering some of these legal aspects in more detail.

 

[SkUnimatrix]

.
I am a backer and a Gold Ticket holder. Per the original and ONLY TOS I signed I want the financial reporting promised in the TOS and the PLEDGE that CR wrote to the backers. If your saying in the quote above that the TOS is binding on us, it is binding on them, and to chance the terms is fine, for those backers, NOT to those that agreed to the original terms. You can't have it both ways. Make a TOS people see, agree to, then later change it to read. Ooops sorry we will not do as we said this new TOS you did not agree to but makes it so we have to deliver nothing at all, or do as we said now rules oh and we did say we will show how the meney was spent. LOL sorry not happening we changed our minds and even though you didn't agree to the new TOS, your out of luck.
.
In plain language. They lied, have no intentions of showing the books as promised as their promises mean absolutely nothing they will just change all they promised and you have to live with it. They lied, deceived, and failed to deliver what they said they would. Why you believe anything they say is beyond me. They LIED. Or rather just changed the rules in mid game.
.
Calebe

My wife bought me a couple ships as my xmas present in 2013. Before doing so she read the TOS and was actually rather impressed at the time (she's a lawyer, she reads those kinds of things). Also at the time the Hangar Module was released pretty much on schedule (a delay of a few days or even a week or two isn't a big deal in my book) so thought things were on track for the DFM to be delivered in December. Then when she read the latest TOS last month she shook her head and asked if it was still the same company & management.

 

[frostypaw]

It would be ironic if the "fightback" against refunds killed the project by deterring potential customers.

It really should.

The way their forums are and how this new guy just twists and writhes.... that's not how pleasant companies to do business with work, not even just as a customer for when anything goes wrong - you don't want your complaint to be treated like a cat and mouse game of "aha!!! but".

You're not happy with what you bought? Here's your refund. The sound of a company confident in it's product and that it can sell to others, that it doesn't need to cling onto them with claws-in and all their glamours on to attract new prey

 

[Artemus]

I guess that is now 2.7 or are they working on a magic version that will actually include Star Marine....or was that just last month? Sorry, it's been a crazy past couple weeks around my household so I've only been half paying attention.

I believe after E3 they started talking about Star Marine and that it's coming back...After saying it was already in the game. I'll dig around and find the quotes and up date this post if I can find them. My google-fu is weak and I can seem to find them. Maybe someone can. I'm thinking it was talked about in one of the shows right after E3.

20 May 2013 interview with Forbes Magazine and Citizen Con 2013 presentation include those dates on slides as well as the kickstarter. Multi-references given, and the CitizenCon presentation was streamed on their website, would be enough to prove that was the estimated release date given to backers and reinforced throughout multiple public statements by company officers.

Now that home improvement projects are finished and wife's medical stuff is taken care we can sit down and do a couple videos covering some of these legal aspects in more detail.

Well currently we are slated for a release of SQ42 end of 2016, even though they are re-shooting motion cap, don't have the carrier finished, and are potentially missing a lot of key ships for SQ42. All that and they haven't said mum on if the date will be changed. Also no new trailers for SQ42, but ask any hard core backer and they say, "Good! I don't want to see anything that will spoil it!" Yet flying the released military ships doesn't count.

 

[briguy168]

20 May 2013 interview with Forbes Magazine and Citizen Con 2013 presentation include those dates on slides as well as the kickstarter. Multi-references given, and the CitizenCon presentation was streamed on their website, would be enough to prove that was the estimated release date given to backers and reinforced throughout multiple public statements by company officers.

Now that home improvement projects are finished and wife's medical stuff is taken care we can sit down and do a couple videos covering some of these legal aspects in more detail.

Surely you can, at least, agree that no date was listed when you order/pre-order/pledge money to them, nor is there a real date in the ToS; only something that alludes to the kickstarter date.

 

[ripptide]

I believe after E3 they started talking about Star Marine and that it's coming back...After saying it was already in the game. I'll dig around and find the quotes and up date this post if I can find them. My google-fu is weak and I can seem to find them. Maybe someone can. I'm thinking it was talked about in one of the shows right after E3.





Well currently we are slated for a release of SQ42 end of 2016, even though they are re-shooting motion cap, don't have the carrier finished, and are potentially missing a lot of key ships for SQ42. All that and they haven't said mum on if the date will be changed. Also no new trailers for SQ42, but ask any hard core backer and they say, "Good! I don't want to see anything that will spoil it!" Yet flying the released military ships doesn't count.

I seem to recall "Space Marine part deux" was never really a clear announcement, it was typical CIG doubletalk where Chris mentioned in a 10FTC that you might see "something rumoured to be dead soon". That way they could build hype without actually saying anything, the best kind of hype.

 

[FuriousMeow]

No, I'm showing you how wrong you are. That 2014 year was not listed on the RSI website except during the kickstarter. You keep on saying that they are late when the date you love to use for this claim was based on the kickstarter. The kickstarter ToS specifically says that it's not a release/fill-by date. Thereby, you are incorrect. You don't have to like it but these are the facts.

Again I have my concerns about this company but nothing is egregious as you proclaim them to be. And for the record, I said I wasn't a CIG apologist and not that I was neutral. Everything thing I have posted has been in defense of what the facts are (although I may have gotten some of the facts wrong).

Oh . I'm not sure what "website" you are referring to, but there was definitely a 2014 release stated, not for the whole thing but there was absolutely a promised date and then that slipped by. And it wasn't for the silly hangar module. You do realize that ToS - the 18 months of delivery? - was in the hangar module that could be downloaded in 2013. They absolutely said in 2014 SQ42's first chapter would be released for my order.

You are absolutely not "neutral." And when I say neutral I mean you wouldn't take an actual stance where you weren't actually defending CR/CIG/RSI's constant slipping of release times, double speak, constant slacking to product release and you continue to do it. There was absolute dates in the ToS and they kept on slipping by. So like it or not, you are wrong.

And even if I'm not held to some of the Kickstarter lingo, there are many more who are. So I'm not allowed to speak on their behalf either? Despite the fact I also have experienced the same they have although not to the same extent?

I can't state, which I have before and will again, that although I do not get any of the physical material there are many more who should and they keep getting the shaft because they haven't received it? I can't speak on that? Because that just even further proves the fact that you are absolutely defending them.

 

[Rolan]

Patch 2.5 feature list

https://i.redd.it/mshd9ftkw1ax.png



https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4th2e4/official_25_feature_list/

Uuu more info thanks

mmm landing zones 2.0 (Don't know what is this about)


Dont know to what extent item system 2.0(WIP) will affect the game, unless they introduce what we already saw in one or two videos


But at least this may mean that is feature locked(2.5) and that is in internal testing, if this or next week goes to the Avocados/Avocatis/thoseguys it may be Live for Gamescom.

It would be ironic if the "fightback" against refunds killed the project by deterring potential customers.

Well, right now, it seems that is the opposite really...

 

[ripptide]

Uuu more info thanks

mmm landing zones 2.0 (Don't know what is this about)


Dont know to what extent item system 2.0(WIP) will affect the game, unless they introduce what we already saw in one or two videos


But at least this may mean that is feature locked(2.5) and that is in internal testing, if this or next week goes to the Avocados/Avocatis/thoseguys it may be Live for Gamescom.


Well, right now, it seems that is the opposite really...

Hey yea, maybe they'll issue my refund, then it will go up even more!

 

[SkUnimatrix]

Surely you can, at least, agree that no date was listed when you order/pre-order/pledge money to them, nor is there a real date in the ToS; only something that alludes to the kickstarter date.

They had made multiple public statements to media, the press, and on their own website via live stream of estimated dates and therefore set expectations given the date of purchase on most of my packages/ships is November 26th, 2013. So at the time of those purchases they had given such expectations of a release date through verbal commitment, their public statements to media/press as well as citizen con. Since there is video of those presentations that would hold up in a courtroom, at least in the United States.

When you are an executive of a company you've got to watch what you say in public because you can be held to account for those statements someday in a courtroom. "But not in writing" doesn't work when there is video evidence or other record of statements being made.

 

[eminus]

comparison of 2 Devs playing their game

CIG/RSI



[video=youtube_share;ZWq8ynUq7wM]https://youtu.be/ZWq8ynUq7wM[/video]


Blizzard


[video=youtube_share;I3N4P-83G-U]https://youtu.be/I3N4P-83G-U[/video]

see the difference?

 

[Shinimas]

I don't think Croberts cares much about the game, to be honest. He probably doesn't even follow its progress. He's far more interested in making the SQ42 movie, but he doesn't realize it's a game... He's like an even less involved George Lucas of gaming.

 

[Atreiden]

Uuu more info thanks

mmm landing zones 2.0 (Don't know what is this about)


Dont know to what extent item system 2.0(WIP) will affect the game, unless they introduce what we already saw in one or two videos


But at least this may mean that is feature locked(2.5) and that is in internal testing, if this or next week goes to the Avocados/Avocatis/thoseguys it may be Live for Gamescom.


Well, right now, it seems that is the opposite really...

DiscoLando explains it in the reddit thread

"Landing Zones 2.0" might otherwise be referred to as "Landing Pads 2.0." It has nothing to do with previously referred to "Landing Zones" like ArcCorp or Nyx. It's more a continuing refinement of how you can approach and land on the platforms throughout the Stanton System, like Kareah, CryAstro, Port Olisar, and the upcoming GrimHex.

We anticipate this to be mostly "under-the-hood" improvements. We're likely to spend time with our old friend USE PROMPT for a while longer, yet.

 

[Skizomeuh]

mmm landing zones 2.0 (Don't know what is this about)

Dont know to what extent item system 2.0(WIP) will affect the game, unless they introduce what we already saw in one or two videos

At long last! Now they're talking about good stuff, about foundations, or at least I hope so, and we'll be fixed soon.

Landing zones 2.0 seems to refer to the landing procedure and docks/pads. Let's hope this will be something a little more constructive and logical in the context of the persistent universe (procedure, flight control interaction, parking of landed ships to secure them and to free pads for others ships, loitering,...)

Item 2.0: let's hope this will finally end the <<USE>> comedy at least.

 

[Shinimas]

I think sq42 already has a lot of mechanics that are not in the pu or else theres no way this would be coming out this year or even next year.

They are keeping it all quiet because they don't want any spoilers. sq42 is a lot farther along then most people think

^This is what they say on the official forums. Honestly, I'd feel sorry for them, but it's hard to excuse such naivete and downright stupidity. "The game is     , but they actually have a super secret build that works perfectly!". Don't be like this, people.