Horizons Fan boy here admitting huge issues...

SlackR

Banned
I've been here pretty much since day one and have played my way through all of the versions starting with only a few systems in the first Alpha, but I feel that we are at a crossroads and I am for the first time in danger of moving on, or at least stopping for a while. In my opinion there are too many things at the moment that need addressing before Frontier should even start to think of adding more functions. I am on holiday at the moment and so have had plenty of free time to really knuckle down and "rank up", gain rep and improve my bank balance. I have done all of those things but not once did it feel like the game was balanced...

Missions giving out only one or two percent rep, charity donations of a million credits not being much more beneficial than giving 25000, hours spent hunting for resources (don't even get me started on polonium) etc. If I get pulled out of super cruise by a pirate threatening to take my cargo... I cannot get a bounty for attacking him before he fires at me! I don't care if he is a virgin pirate or just paid of his bounty... Pulling me out of SC with a threatening message should be justification for me to open fire! The list goes on!

I am actually for the first time unhappy with the state of the game! Despite changing what I do and how I play I keep coming back to the same conclusion - that the devs aren't logging enough hours actually playing the game and asking themselves ..."is this fun?". Even open ended games need goals and the mileposts are either too far out of reach or require a specific style of play to reach.

I don't want to drive around on a planet that I have been told has a very rare element that I need for hours... I mean think about that.. Hours! That's not effective gameplay and it's not fun! It's also impractical to all but a few hardcore gamers. Imagine then if you role a crappy upgrade and have to go hunting for more resources! I think that'd be enough to stop me playing permanently! Fingers crossed the next update addresses this.

When I upgrade my ship, I need to store those treasured upgrades guys because they took a week to earn! I should also be able to acquire all but the rarest in more realistic ways... Black market, player trading etc.

I don't want to have to "stack" missions or log in / out to stand even a chance of aquiring what I Want / need in order to progress in a certain area! It feels like cheating and is immersion breaking but to not do so would take far too much time.

The actual concept and scope of this game will always amaze me, especially in VR, but there are just too many unbalanced features that have been thrown together with no real consideration of how much time the average person can commit in the real world. To be honest even if they could commit the time, would they want to drive / fly around endlessly doing the same thing with no guarantee of success at the end of it?

This game never really came out of Alpha for me and I'm perfectly ok with that because the game I want is still three or four years away. But this is the first time I have actually been worried that quantity is replacing quality. Even then it is only the illusion of quantity because of the amount of repetition required to accomplish a specific goal. Normally a feature comes out, gets assessed and then gets tweaked before the next set of features are implemented. But lately we are getting more features without the previous set having been balanced / reconsidered.

I think that the numbers need seriously looking at and reset / rebalanced in a more realistic way. I certainly don't want to see billionaires and cutters flying around everywhere after a week of playing like in the beta times, but nor do I want it to take as long as it currently does, forcing the player to either grind or fall behind. The game right now doesn't permit us to play our own way, because in order to accomplish certain things, there is currently only one way they can be accomplished. The flexibility is still there or course, but only if you stay away from certain mechanics. I wanted a clipper, I wanted an fsd upgrade- That meant my holiday was spent doing too much of the same things for WAY too long!

Sorry for the rant but DB and MB need to lock themselves away for a weekend and just play the game they are building... It needs looking at guys.
 
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The game is designed around long progression times. The game is designed around taking years for the average player. This game is not trying to an instant gratification game like all the others. Many people find it fun and very rewarding compared to games where you get stuff with minimal effort. If you don't want to stack missions or whatever else you consider cheating. Don't do it. Simple. Don't hold onto to cargo for engineers for weeks, get the materials first then get the cargo the once you have everything else.
 
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SlackR

Banned
The game is designed around long progression times. The game is designed around taking years for the average player. This game is not trying to an instant gratification game like all the others. Many people find it fun and very rewarding compared to games where you get stuff with minimal effort. If you don't want to stack missions or whatever else you consider cheating. Don't do it. Simple. Don't hold onto to cargo for engineers for weeks, get the materials first then get the cargo the once you have everything else.

I don't disagree with the longevity aspect of the game, but you need to strike a balance... You can't spend "years" doing the same thing to accomplish a specific goal... That not a game - it's work! Time spent has to be varied and dynamic. I don't want a quick fix but I also don't have years to play. There must be an in between that would suit a broader player range.
 
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Those I really good points and I agree with most of it.

I enjoy the parts that work enough to forgive the ones that don't so far. And it does get noticeably better.
At least from my point of view - we seem to employ different things into out gameplay.

If you start noticing the flaws too much and you feel like you start grinding, it probably means that a break is in order.
 
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SlackR

Banned
Those I really good points and I agree with most of it.

I enjoy the parts that work enough to forgive the ones that don't so far. And it does get noticeably better.
At least from my point of view - we seem to employ different things into out gameplay.

If you start noticing the flaws too much and you feel like you start grinding, it probably means that a break is in order.

You could be right... Its been a few years now! :p
 
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Yup - taking a week off myself, just to see if it helps.

Engineers are just too tedious. I don't mind the rep grind so much, but then having to keep finding stuff to do upgrades is just boring.

I got to g5 with all but 3 engineers, and now it's almost impossible to find what I need to do more mods.

I haven't changed, but something must have.

Just too tedious and boring. Not to mention futility of grinding for hours and getting nowhere.

I'm done until next beta at least, maybe longer.

I guess that after 3200+ hours it's time for a break.
 
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I feel you.

I don't enjoy driving around in the SRV. It feels empty, lifeless - and less so than empty space. I would think of it differently if i could do something productive on a planetoids surface; maybe setting up mineral extractors (which might even mine materials for me, please, pretty please) - even if i can only carry two at a time! I'd do it!

The rep gain for donations is a good point too. Those are spread out weirdly anyway - I tend to see donation missions issued by factions i am already allied with and only very rarely so with factions who are not my allies yet. And the rep gain being the same regardless of the action is just plain wrong.

I read a few good suggestions about black markets earlier today; quite like what you suggested here. The jest of one suggestion was that a player defines what material he wants and with enough rep, a shadowy employer (black market contact) then composes a (set of) mission(s) which are appropriate for the reward, in the example taking the players combat/trading/exploration ranks into account when suggesting missions.
 
This game never really came out of Alpha for me and I'm perfectly ok with that because the game I want is still three or four years away. But this is the first time I have actually been worried that quantity is replacing quality. Even then it is only the illusion of quantity because of the amount of repetition required to accomplish a specific goal. Normally a feature comes out, gets assessed and then gets tweaked before the next set of features are implemented. But lately we are getting more features without the previous set having been balanced / reconsidered.

^^^ This is so true!
 
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Excellent post, and +1 repped. I've only logged a few hours in ED this year, when 2.0 landed, (that old joke) and again when RNGineers landed. Spent 2 hours looking for the stuff to get a tier 1 FSD range upgrade, which once done, gave me like a 4% range increase. So, it took me 2 hours to get to Felicity, another 2 hours to get to Mia and back with her sodding "hearts desire" and then antoher 2 hours of driving about on a plannet to get some rocks... so that now I can jump 10.04 LY.

I've not logged in since.

I'm still hopeful that ED turns around, the focus on random grind (from PP to RNGeneers) is putting me off coming back. I hope FD listen to the OP. He and I are both Alpha backers who, I think, have been pretty understanding.
 
It needs looking at guys.

You held on, but in the end, you still failed and that counts. You failed FDev and DB personally, by not understanding how the game should be played and how great it works and how NOT boring it is. If you have doubts, watch dev educational videos ask as for support.
FDev is willing to share part of the fault. The game is of course perfect, but sometimes, they fail to communicate how perfect it is and how you are supposed to approach this perfection. Anything beyond communication is your fault.

Just kidding. You are probably a stubborn sob for holding on for so long, despite terribly bad game design going downhill since CG update. Game devs no longer love games or their work, they just deliver what they think will do. Nothing more.
 
I also agree with the OP. The game is too geared to people who have lots of time on their hands. Such a game will always have lower longevity and population than it could have. I like ED, but a lot of the time it seems as if things have been designed to waste peoples time for little reward. Why can't we jump directly to planets that are far away from the system's sun. There are cheap paying courier missions that require you to travel 200K LS from your point of entry. We can travel faster than light, but we don't have a comms system to find out the prices of commodities on any station. Inaccurate descriptions for rare mats meaning you spend hours searching the wrong place. The whole game seems to be set up this way, and isn't particularly casual friendly. It is the reason why I left Eve Online, requires too much time investment.
 
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I also agree with the OP. The game is too geared to people who have lots of time on their hands. Such a game will always have lower longevity and population than it could have. I like ED, but a lot of the time it seems as if things have been designed to waste peoples time for little reward. Why can't we jump directly to planets that are far away from the system's sun. There are cheap paying courier missions that require you to travel 200K LS from your point of entry. We can travel faster than light, but we don't have a comms system to find out the prices of commodities on any station. Inaccurate descriptions for rare mats meaning you spend hours searching the wrong place. The whole game seems to be set up this way, and isn't particularly casual friendly. It is the reason why I


...pressed "post reply" too soon? :)
 
Excellent post, and +1 repped. I've only logged a few hours in ED this year, when 2.0 landed, (that old joke) and again when RNGineers landed. Spent 2 hours looking for the stuff to get a tier 1 FSD range upgrade, which once done, gave me like a 4% range increase. So, it took me 2 hours to get to Felicity, another 2 hours to get to Mia and back with her sodding "hearts desire" and then antoher 2 hours of driving about on a plannet to get some rocks... so that now I can jump 10.04 LY.

I've not logged in since.

I'm still hopeful that ED turns around, the focus on random grind (from PP to RNGeneers) is putting me off coming back. I hope FD listen to the OP. He and I are both Alpha backers who, I think, have been pretty understanding.
Same here, last time I logged in Elite was right before the 2.1 dropped. I don't like the direction FD is going with the game, somehow, I had more fun when I first played the Beta a few years back. The game is getting too gimmick for me
 
I agree with a lot of what OP says.

the simulation of the milkyway is breathtaking
the flight model fun
the audio to die for
the graphics really good
the VR support (rift at least) super.

but the actual game aspect feels like a quickly bolted on afterthought sometimes...... That said, if it was any other game I would be happy, I have already had my monies worth no matter what happens, its just.... the game is so close to brilliance that it makes it all the more painful.

other far inferior games do a much better job of making you feel IN the game universe imo, and at least makes some effort to hide the rng and the grind.

I am easing off a bit for now... no biggie tho, I will keep coming back, and, I am actually looking forward to passenger missions to beauty spots. I am not so fussed about finding the beauty spots on my own but I will happily spend many hrs taking missions to the nicest spots all found by the real explorers.

holding off for a bit may not be such a bad idea anyway.. I would hate to be triple Elite and burned out before we even meet the thargoids for instance.
 

SlackR

Banned
I agree with a lot of what OP says.

the simulation of the milkyway is breathtaking
the flight model fun
the audio to die for
the graphics really good
the VR support (rift at least) super.

but the actual game aspect feels like a quickly bolted on afterthought sometimes...... That said, if it was any other game I would be happy, I have already had my monies worth no matter what happens, its just.... the game is so close to brilliance that it makes it all the more painful.

other far inferior games do a much better job of making you feel IN the game universe imo, and at least makes some effort to hide the rng and the grind.

I am easing off a bit for now... no biggie tho, I will keep coming back, and, I am actually looking forward to passenger missions to beauty spots. I am not so fussed about finding the beauty spots on my own but I will happily spend many hrs taking missions to the nicest spots all found by the real explorers.

holding off for a bit may not be such a bad idea anyway.. I would hate to be triple Elite and burned out before we even meet the thargoids for instance.

Well said sir. I too have had more than my money's worth, though the PC rig and VR giznomotry I shelled out for wasn't cheap! The game is so close to being everything I hoped it would be that it's frustrating that much of the gameplay is tacked on instead of woven into the fabric and mechanics of the Elite Universe. For example, I wanted a clipper and worked hard to get one... Though once I'd gotten it the shields felt so paper thin even after serious upgrades that I went back to the Anaconda. Now having read many of the books and just using a bit of common sense... If you were a ship dealer and a Baron of the Empire wanted to fork out over 250 million credits to buy an Anaconda with some slick upgrades you would think it'd be them contacting me rather than me having to fly around hoping to get lucky and land at a station that stocks them! It's that kind of thing that really irks me! Of course there are some amazing resources created by some very thoughtful commanders out there to help with such things but I Fly in VR and don't really want to be looking on the internet anyway.

I stand by my original post that the devs need to lock themselves away and set specific goals in the game to accomplish to gain a better idea of the time, resources and mechanics involved. Some things just need tweaking, some things need adding and some things just need to go!

I love this game more than I should, but it's flaws are not cute like they are in my wife ;) they are annoying... Why am I flying 150000 ls to complete a mission that pays no better than one 10ls? Why have I just lost my grade five upgrade when I bought a new ship? Why does the idea of driving around for hours on desolate planets hunting for polonium seem like a good game mechanic to the devs? Did they try it for themselves?

The game needs to be played a bit more before these mechanics are released into the wild guys! I also really really want to change the floor colour in my Conda from 1970s orange... Though the bridge is large enough to have a roller disco! :p
 
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