If you feel like FD has yanked the fun out from under you since 2.1, here are some suggestions

[V'larr]

The maneuverability of my larger ships is drastically increased with FA-OFF, heck I wouldnt be able to pull off half the stuff I do in my T9 or Cutter if I flew FA-ON

I contend that you can. I've flown the T9 and Anaconda too, with the correct control of throttle and lateral thrust (and perhaps use of boost, tied with that), you can achieve the same effect.

Bear in mind, of course, I use keyboard & mouse, and I believe you use dual joysticks - FA-off may feel more natural with that setup.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

i would like to add to my above post where i said i knew what my ship could do and when it was time to run and when i could realistically fight; i forgot to add that in 2.0 i also had the time and opportunity to get out of there if it was time to run. with npcs never missing and loving to ram, that time doesnt exist now. hence my destruction when i was attempting to use advice someone gave me in these very forums, about dont boost away from them, you wont make it, boost PAST them and make them turn and repeat until fsd is ready then swing onto the vector.

 

[lomac]

i would like to add to my above post where i said i knew what my ship could do and when it was time to run and when i could realistically fight; i forgot to add that in 2.0 i also had the time and opportunity to get out of there if it was time to run. with npcs never missing and loving to ram, that time doesnt exist now. hence my destruction when i was attempting to use advice someone gave me in these very forums, about dont boost away from them, you wont make it, boost PAST them and make them turn and repeat until fsd is ready then swing onto the vector.

Yoda that's just bad advice. I tried that too back pre 2.1 when I was doing Robigo smuggling runs, when I was first trying to figure out how to avoid scans. I was NEVER able to face at the NPC and boost past. If you do the mines thing you are likely to be just fine.

Once I had avoiding scans down to a science, the only time I'd face an interdictor is if it was a cop so I could shoot him just once to get him to stop scanning and fight, then I'd just turn and run

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Nice post.

You can up your range my almost 2ly by upgrading your sensors from E to D - still works, power-wise with the hangar powered off/prioritised down. (You might've just forgotten to change the sensors in coriolis, though, yes, yes)

Good point I'll update it. D seems to be the way to go for lightest, I missed that in the tradeconda build because I don't have it set up that way anymore.

 

[lomac]

The sole problem simply is that the vast majority of players want to rp as tough badass CMDR in 'Don't hurt me' mode.

That's not really a problem per se. That's the point of most of these games isn't it, to let you pretend you're a badass <whatever>. No one wants to pay money to pretend they're someone's whipping boy do they I'm sure some do.

 

[lomac]

Iomac i understand what you are saying, but you say that enemies CAN be 1-2 ranks above and thats the issue. if anything is in the hold they are ALWAYS 2 levels above, in a fully kiited out combat ship which totally outmatches the asp. the interdiction game DOESNT WORK. period. i could be in a fully kitted out sidewinder where its easy to keep the sights on the escape vector and same thing WILL happen. you will STILL get the blue side not move and then suddenyl the drop and the red side up top and its a good chance even if you submit at that point it will FSD fail anyway. and often you cant fly evasive - i get threatened in the chat window by contacts THAT DONT EXIST YET. then they magically appear right behind a few minutes later and insta-interdict - that is you wind up tumbling with damage fsd fail OR back in SC before you can react. thats happened multiple times. then there are the obviously glitched interdictions where there is flickering and two different escape vectors so you HAVE to submit right away. once in normal space with them behind you are relying on jumping out system ASAP and thats unlikely when they have a fully combat fitted viper mk4 or vulture or imperial cutter or clipper or whatever it was destroyed me last - with NO cargo capacity to take anything you drop btw because its all shields and weapons and chaff. surviving long enough to jump is pure luck.

and its not fun. none of it. i got an engineer weapon but each time i die i lose mats i need - and i die a lot trying to make it to the engineers to make low level mods to level them up so i can get something to help me survive...no. 2.0 was more fun than this.

and reset combat rank is no solution. in a few months you are right back in same situation with constant npcs, 98% of whom are 2 levels above and the other part are mostly even higher but very rarely lower or only 1 level above and ALWAYS in ships you have no hope of fight no matter what i stick on my asp. the issue with reset combat rank doesnt fix the issue of the combat rank not reflecting ability in combat but cumulative kills made. you could get to elite by killing lower ranked enemies. assuming you lived that long. yes each victory over a higher opponent would be epic fight and make you feel great but i would lose far more often. maybe its because im too old now, reflexes gone or something.

cargo ships would not exist in such a universe. the only trade would be done by the corvette class warships and be carried by naval vessels not private vessels. if you want an example of what would be the reality in this galaxy if the AI and npc for interdictions generation stays the same, play assassins creed 4 black flag. there the brigs and frigates and men o war of the spanish and british navies are the ones carrying cargo - there are no civilian ships larger than fishing vessels, due to the kind of piracy in that game. all cargo carried by naval ships in that game.

realistically in this game for trade to work there MUST be convoys now escorted by heavy naval forces. explorers would either send data back via long range transmissions or by going to heavily fortified and patrolled military outposts far enough out of the bubble that no npc ships other than naval forces from the superpowers would be in system - and other explorer npcs. being an unarmed explorer is unviable as being a miner or trader now. no combat is no fun. no combat ship all the time in no fun. losing a ship of any kind when you dont have billions of credits is no fun and leads to my situation - where i only plyed the game once recently. why? because last week i got a new gaming laptop and i wanted to see elite in all its graphical glory, to see what the game i used to love and enjoy looks like on this thing, and its beautiful. but unplayable. i will see what the next patch brings. but if i die one time in it i will be waiting for the next patch. if that turns out to be next season its too late and i will move on.

2.0 i was dead certain to buy into season 3. now im probably going to be spending that money elsewhere. not on No Mans Sky because i dont want to play a cartoon space game. and unless star wars franchise gets a modern xwing type combat game it wont be that either. space will be gone to me unless someone takes 2.0 and makes a spin off game from it and calls it elite fun.

Some good points, since 2.1 I haven't won the interdiction mini-game, I used to beat it all the time smuggling before. I get that bug where it shows the "funnel" in 2 places too. But I do manage to submit almost 95% of the time, rarely do I still get spun around if I submit - I just have to make sure I am going slow enough when I do submit I guess.

With mines your cargo ship can thrive and just kill what interdicts it - just have to submit early. SOmeone threatens you and they're not even in your contacts, if you think you have time to get to your destination go for it, but if not slow down and let them catch up, kill them, and move on.

You're right about cargo ships though, I wouldn't trade in an unarmed ship now, has to have mines, that's just the way the game is as long as they have pirates.

Re: the rank reset, it has worked for some. I'm not resetting mine because I found a way to deal with the NPCs but others have and they've let me know it does help somewhat. BTW the ranks are Harmless, Mostly Harmless, then Novice. If you're Novice you could get reset back to Harmless maybe that will help.

Maybe FD will find a way to make the game more accessible for more casual players, maybe not. Hope you find something to spend your season 3 money on. My kids and I really enjoyed playing the Borderlands 2 series together. If you haven't played that you might enjoy it. Not a space game but really fun anyway and it's always on sale on Steam. As with most games it's more fun with friends.

 

[Siranui]

i am an ARMED trader of the kind from the original game.

Which is what i spend most of my time doing, also in an Asp.

Which means that you can hold your own against other armed traders or smaller and less well equipped combat ships, but surely you see that an otherwise all-things-being-equal pure combat ship will beat you, because it has combat stuff insid it, instead of 50tons of cargo slowing it down. If I want to fightproperly, then the cargo comes out and girders get welded in place. The Asp is multi-role, but it's not strictly multi-role all with the same load-out.

I don't try to fight what the computer tells me are better pilots (high combat rating) in larger ships built for killing. That's going to end badly. I certainly don't pick on Deadly vultures when I have a hold full of cargo.

now, even a vulture can kill my asp.

Mate, a Vulture is in the same price category as your Asp, except it's a pure fighter. It turns better, has better shields, better guns. I'm not sure why you're looking down your nose at one, demanding to be able to defeat them: It *should* be kicking your backside!

so why does that rank have ANY bearing on the ranks of the enemy npcs generated for me?

Would you rather they completely disregarded it and sent a true random sampling of ships and skills against everyone?
True random NPC skill levels is likely to make heavily mis-matched encounters more likely, not less likely.

 

[lomac]

Mate, a Vulture is in the same price category as your Asp, except it's a pure fighter. It turns better, has better shields, better guns. I'm not sure why you're looking down your nose at one, demanding to be able to defeat them: It *should* be kicking your backside!

Well the fact is that with the way mines work now and the way the AI works now (flies right through the mines in a straight line pursuit) my AspX built for long range smuggling with 3A shileds (not 5 or 6) can kill anything sent after it including Deadly and Elite ranked just by submitting to interdiction and then lining the bad guy up directly behind him and non-stop mine launching from the 4 small hard points. You see something similar in my video in the original post where my type 6 with only 2 launchers kills stuff.

It shouldn't be that way, a combat ship should shred you, but with mines they way they are and the AI the way it is that's how the game works.

If we didn't have that working like that, we really would not be able to run trading ships at all. If I had any other weapons on my asp other than mines I would be toast.

Not a problem in my A rated conda with 256T cargo, I can kill anything the game has thrown at me (I'm Dangerous so all the mission NPCs end up being Deadly or Elite). Until ppl can get to a ship that can have significant cargo and be a real combat machine (I've got like 500 mil in this thing) they're SOL if mines are ever changed or the AI learns to not fly right through them.

From a realism point of view, a vulture interdicting you to assasinate you (ships sent against you due to mission) makes sens. A vulture or FDL interdicting you for cargo - doesn't make sense they usually don't have cargo bays.

FDL needs to do some balancing to allow people who prefer to just trade and smuggle to not have to do it in an A rated conda. The mines and brain dead AI serve that purpose now, but it's not ideal or really fun.

 

[ROSS-128]

Well the fact is that with the way mines work now and the way the AI works now (flies right through the mines in a straight line pursuit) my AspX built for long range smuggling with 3A shileds (not 5 or 6) can kill anything sent after it including Deadly and Elite ranked just by submitting to interdiction and then lining the bad guy up directly behind him and non-stop mine launching from the 4 small hard points. You see something similar in my video in the original post where my type 6 with only 2 launchers kills stuff.

It shouldn't be that way, a combat ship should shred you, but with mines they way they are and the AI the way it is that's how the game works.

If we didn't have that working like that, we really would not be able to run trading ships at all. If I had any other weapons on my asp other than mines I would be toast.

Not a problem in my A rated conda with 256T cargo, I can kill anything the game has thrown at me (I'm Dangerous so all the mission NPCs end up being Deadly or Elite). Until ppl can get to a ship that can have significant cargo and be a real combat machine (I've got like 500 mil in this thing) they're SOL if mines are ever changed or the AI learns to not fly right through them.

From a realism point of view, a vulture interdicting you to assasinate you (ships sent against you due to mission) makes sens. A vulture or FDL interdicting you for cargo - doesn't make sense they usually don't have cargo bays.

FDL needs to do some balancing to allow people who prefer to just trade and smuggle to not have to do it in an A rated conda. The mines and brain dead AI serve that purpose now, but it's not ideal or really fun.

I will agree that they need to tune up pirate target and ship selection. Pirates should be fitted for pirating: they should have cargo scanners, and they shouldn't demand cargo when they know you don't have any. And even though NPC pirates never actually scoop cargo, they should still have room in their ships set aside for cargo racks and limpets (hatchbreaker and/or collector) because it's silly for a pirate to not even be *capable* of picking up the cargo they're allegedly after. A side-effect of this is that pirates should heavily favor ships that have room for these things, meaning they're going to lean more toward multirole ships.

That is more about making pirates act like pirates instead of wandering serial killers though.

As for "combat traders", being a combat trader is still possible, you've just got to use the right ships and you're going to take a hit to cargo capacity. To do that you've basically got to fit your ship like a pirate, minus limpets. Which gives you a slight edge over pirates in similar ships, because you can use those limpet controller slots for other things. The Federal Dropship and Imperial Clipper can both pull off fairly decent combat trading, just put a combat loadout in them but leave the Class 6 and Class 7 slot open respectively, giving you 64/128 tons of cargo space. The Dropship can be a bit tricky because it flies differently than most other ships, but someone who learns how to use one well can stand up to most NPCs as long as you don't run into the turbo-SCB bug.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

I don't try to fight what the computer tells me are better pilots (high combat rating) in larger ships built for killing. That's going to end badly. I certainly don't pick on Deadly vultures when I have a hold full of cargo.







Would you rather they completely disregarded it and sent a true random sampling of ships and skills against everyone?

yes i would rather random. because when i am competent in an abviously not combat ship why should i get nothing less than master level wings of vipers, or a vulture, imperial eagles, federal assault ships with eagles wings, which are usually dangerous - master and expert are exceptions and lower ranks than me are almost never... so why? yes i agree even a vulture can kill me what i should have said was 'before i have a chance to hi wake out'. in 2.0 you had a chance to escape. 2.1, interdictions are completely broken so you have to submit, and you STILL get trashed because its never anything i can fight, i cant avoid interdiction ships that warn me but are not in contacts... and no combat at all is no fun at all and its not elite. the game is now combat focussed not sandbox focus because you CANNOT CARRY ANYTHING and not get interdicted everywhere almost all the time except in uninhabited systems (Which you cant exactly trade to) or 1500 LY away from the bubble which again makes accessing engineers and trading a little bit utterly impossible. and i dont want to sell the ships i sweated and worked hard with trading and the odd comunity goal to earn, have to be sold to play a combat game in a combat ship because thats the only way to play unless you outfit with mines and pray your mines kill them before their railguns shred you. and even if you survive you never make enough profit off the cargo to cover the damage repairs.

 

[ROSS-128]

yes i would rather random. because when i am competent in an abviously not combat ship why should i get nothing less than master level wings of vipers, or a vulture, imperial eagles, federal assault ships with eagles wings, which are usually dangerous - master and expert are exceptions and lower ranks than me are almost never... so why? yes i agree even a vulture can kill me what i should have said was 'before i have a chance to hi wake out'. in 2.0 you had a chance to escape. 2.1, interdictions are completely broken so you have to submit, and you STILL get trashed because its never anything i can fight, i cant avoid interdiction ships that warn me but are not in contacts... and no combat at all is no fun at all and its not elite. the game is now combat focussed not sandbox focus because you CANNOT CARRY ANYTHING and not get interdicted everywhere almost all the time except in uninhabited systems (Which you cant exactly trade to) or 1500 LY away from the bubble which again makes accessing engineers and trading a little bit utterly impossible. and i dont want to sell the ships i sweated and worked hard with trading and the odd comunity goal to earn, have to be sold to play a combat game in a combat ship because thats the only way to play unless you outfit with mines and pray your mines kill them before their railguns shred you. and even if you survive you never make enough profit off the cargo to cover the damage repairs.

What game are you even playing? Because what you're describing doesn't sound like the Elite: Dangerous I'm playing right now at all.

You trade in a trade ship, you fight in a fighting ship. If you want to fight while trading, you get a fighting ship that has spare cargo space with the understanding that it won't trade quite as well. Small ships don't multirole very well, because you need space to multirole and small ships, being small, don't have much space.

You say you want combat, but complain that the game gives it to you. It sounds like you want fights that aren't fights: fights where the NPC lets you kill them with whatever you happen to be flying with not much more than token resistance, you stroke your ego and move on. But then, given your username, I suppose that attitude isn't surprising.

 

[Riverside]

What game are you even playing? Because what you're describing doesn't sound like the Elite: Dangerous I'm playing right now at all.

You trade in a trade ship, you fight in a fighting ship. If you want to fight while trading, you get a fighting ship that has spare cargo space with the understanding that it won't trade quite as well. Small ships don't multirole very well, because you need space to multirole and small ships, being small, don't have much space.

You say you want combat, but complain that the game gives it to you. It sounds like you want fights that aren't fights: fights where the NPC lets you kill them with whatever you happen to be flying with not much more than token resistance, you stroke your ego and move on. But then, given your username, I suppose that attitude isn't surprising.

Not so much room for emergent gameplay I think. Fewer choices and feeling forced down certain paths do not make this game a better one.

 

[Mr T]

....The changes put in in 2.1 expose the 'magic' that AI require to be able to compete against a human....

I think the key word you've used in this statement is "expose". A lot of the tactics (including bugs) the AI have (like ramming) weren't introduced when 2.1 came out. They were simply exposed to players more than before because you now have to face the higher ranked AI instead of the lower ranked push overs. Should these tactics and bugs be reviewed by FDev? Sure. However, that will take time and will take time to implement changes if they decide to go down that route. My point being, to actually make the AI themselves more intelligent or "better" it will take a lot more time and effort which probably isn't at the top of FDev's priority list.

Disclosure: I haven't actually seen FDev's priority list so this is just an assumption based on what I've seen

 

[FutronBob]

Great post, OP! Agree with everything except for the part about combat logging. Frontier have stated that killing the game process to avoid ship destruction is considered cheating and is a punishable act, no matter what game mode you're in.

Regardless, everything else in your post was great and very helpful. +Rep!

PS: I would like to reveal one tip I've been using for a long time:

Go into control settings, and find the option for "Set ship speed to 50%." Setting a key to this will allow you to set your throttle to the exact center of the blue zone at the press of a button, giving you the absolute optimum turn rate. I have mine set to "R" for "rotation speed."

Fly safe, Commanders!

 

[Mr T]

PS: I would like to reveal one tip I've been using for a long time:

Go into control settings, and find the option for "Set ship speed to 50%." Setting a key to this will allow you to set your throttle to the exact center of the blue zone at the press of a button, giving you the absolute optimum turn rate. I have mine set to "R" for "rotation speed."

Fly safe, Commanders!

Nice Tip Bob, I never would have thought of that. You can have +1 rep too....

 

[TR7]

I stopped playing the game until it changes. It will definitely change IMO, just like huge repair costs have changed.

Now of course depending on one's views on what the game should be like and what players should be like it can be seen as me just being a poor player and lazy and expecting no challenge etc. I accept everyone has different expectations and that before 2.1 combat was too easy. I accept I am not an excellent pilot and I never was great at 'arcade' games. I understand that there are some exploits or tricks depending how you want to call them that could help me.

But PERSONALLY I find no joy when I enter a combat, hear 'burner attack' (some 3-5 times out of 10) and find myself stripped of my 6A shield within few seconds, then either destroyed or badly damaged while I try to escape. I imagine a lot of people feel the same way. I also imagine that the last thing a game dev wants is to see people quit playing the game as a result of a drastic change of game's balance.

 

[CMDR Cillian Raynor]

no matter what you call it, and if you personally call it house rules, combat logging is considered an exploit by frontier - independent from mode you are playing in (open, group, solo), see here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ging”-Update?p=1642728&viewfull=1#post1642728

"For clarity’s sake, “combat logging” is when a Commander ungracefully exits the game (e.g. using ALT + F4 then shutting down the game process) to avoid defeat, destruction and damage.

Commanders might use this exploit the moment they are interdicted or the moment before they are about to be destroyed.

Although this is flagged primarily as a multiplayer concern, the issues (and solutions) apply equally to the single player game."

please FD don't try to tell me what to do when i'm playing by myself. thanks.

In any case it's not like FD knows when i log. Against another player, they can report me, but by myself?

 

[Mr T]

I stopped playing the game until it changes. It will definitely change IMO, just like huge repair costs have changed.

Now of course depending on one's views on what the game should be like and what players should be like it can be seen as me just being a poor player and lazy and expecting no challenge etc. I accept everyone has different expectations and that before 2.1 combat was too easy. I accept I am not an excellent pilot and I never was great at 'arcade' games. I understand that there are some exploits or tricks depending how you want to call them that could help me.

But PERSONALLY I find no joy when I enter a combat, hear 'burner attack' (some 3-5 times out of 10) and find myself stripped of my 6A shield within few seconds, then either destroyed or badly damaged while I try to escape. I imagine a lot of people feel the same way. I also imagine that the last thing a game dev wants is to see people quit playing the game as a result of a drastic change of game's balance.

Well, that's up to you. Personally, I still enjoy the game and will keep playing it even though I'm not the greatest combat pilot.

Out of curiosity, what ship are you flying?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Nice Tip Bob, I never would have thought of that. You can have +1 rep too....

Works nicely until additional thrusters are used (left/right or up/down), at that point the speed will go out of the blue zone quickly.

 

[lomac]

Great post, OP! Agree with everything except for the part about combat logging. Frontier have stated that killing the game process to avoid ship destruction is considered cheating and is a punishable act, no matter what game mode you're in.

Regardless, everything else in your post was great and very helpful. +Rep!

PS: I would like to reveal one tip I've been using for a long time:

Go into control settings, and find the option for "Set ship speed to 50%." Setting a key to this will allow you to set your throttle to the exact center of the blue zone at the press of a button, giving you the absolute optimum turn rate. I have mine set to "R" for "rotation speed."

Fly safe, Commanders!

Good tip re: keybind for 50% throttle.

 

[Fallout300]

What about if you log when the NPC get's his infinite-ammo, no-heat no-miss Rail multi-cannon out?

Do two cheats make a right?

I spent 10 mins the other day shooting a clipper in my vulture, not one did his shields weaken or go down......got bored and flew off. Great game FD!