Is the Oculus dead? Harsh words by LinusTech

[Chaz]

As for the Oculus headphones, I also own a pair of Sennheiser HD 380 Pro's and whilst I'm not saying that the Oculus ones match them for sound quality, they are still very good none the less, and I'm quite happy to use those rather than stick the Sennheisers on.

It is all a moot point anyway, as with the Vive you can easily detach the headphones from the Rift and use your own if you so fancy. If you do decide to use your own headphones with whatever HMD, then my personal recommendation is to get a pair of wireless ones, as it really helps to keep cable entanglement down to a minimum, especially with the Vive.

@ Globusdiablo If you're still on the fence and not really chomping at the bit to get into VR, then personally I'd wait for the next round of HMD's or at least wait until early next year to see how things have panned out a bit more. Me, I couldn't wait to try out this first wave of consumer HMD's and it has not disappointed me. That feeling of being there in the game has in fact exceeded my expectations of how it would feel, although you do get used to it after a while and the impact lessens. The tech right now though it has to be said has it's limitations and they become more apparent when the "OMG THIS IS AMAZING!!!" phase starts to wear off. The resolution and visual quality of these VR devices still needs a lot of work. The screen door effect is still a problem on both devices and the resolution means that anything that isn't in your immediate vicinity in the game becomes a bit blurred and fuzzy. In ED for example this is most noticeable when you have say a station or planet targeted in super cruise, the HUD marker for it looks quite bad due to a combo of the SDE and low res.

Despite all that though the current tech still delivers on feeling the scale of things around you and making you feel like you're there and part of it. Taking a ship out in ED in VR for the first time is still an amazing thing. Sitting there IN the cockpit for what feels like the very first time despite all the countless hours you've spent playing it before and then piloting it out the dock and initiating a jump to hyperspace is just so damn cool. The vulnerability you feel sat there in front of your canopy as the whole sky gets sucked around you in a vortex is just awesome. My other favourite VR game right now is Subnautica, which also delivers an amazing sense of scale and vast space. Oh and playing Windlands on my mates Vive for the first time was absolutely terrifying. I suppose the other thing to mention is that right now for both devices there is still little to nothing in the way of proper meaty built from the ground up for VR titles. There are some short but sweet ones out for both, but really the only VR games with any longevity right now are the ones where support has been added into a regular game post release. ED kind of bucks the trend by having had support in from a very early stage. So another good reason to sit on the fence a while longer is to wait for some more substantial games to come out and for development on some of the early access titles to become a bit more fleshed out and rounded.

But if you really must buy one right now then either HMD will give you a good time, just go with the one that tickles your personal preferences.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

As for the Oculus headphones, I also own a pair of Sennheiser HD 380 Pro's and whilst I'm not saying that the Oculus ones match them for sound quality, they are still very good none the less, and I'm quite happy to use those rather than stick the Sennheisers on.

It is all a moot point anyway, as with the Vive you can easily detach the headphones from the Rift and use your own if you so fancy. If you do decide to use your own headphones with whatever HMD, then my personal recommendation is to get a pair of wireless ones, as it really helps to keep cable entanglement down to a minimum, especially with the Vive.

Will just mention on the Vive, there is a small lid where all the cables go into the HMD, you pop that and you can see that the cables are all detachable using regular HDMI\USB plugs in adition to the DC power, there is a spare USB port on the HMD, it's a bit cumbersome to use, but you should be able to plug a pair of USB headphones into it and just use the HMD as a pass through hub, in theory at least.

@ Globusdiablo If you're still on the fence and not really chomping at the bit to get into VR, then personally I'd wait for the next round of HMD's or at least wait until early next year to see how things have panned out a bit more. Me, I couldn't wait to try out this first wave of consumer HMD's and it has not disappointed me. That feeling of being there in the game has in fact exceeded my expectations of how it would feel, although you do get used to it after a while and the impact lessens. The tech right now though it has to be said has it's limitations and they become more apparent when the "OMG THIS IS AMAZING!!!" phase starts to wear off. The resolution and visual quality of these VR devices still needs a lot of work. The screen door effect is still a problem on both devices and the resolution means that anything that isn't in your immediate vicinity in the game becomes a bit blurred and fuzzy. In ED for example this is most noticeable when you have say a station or planet targeted in super cruise, the HUD marker for it looks quite bad due to a combo of the SDE and low res.

Despite all that though the current tech still delivers on feeling the scale of things around you and making you feel like you're there and part of it. Taking a ship out in ED in VR for the first time is still an amazing thing. Sitting there IN the cockpit for what feels like the very first time despite all the countless hours you've spent playing it before and then piloting it out the dock and initiating a jump to hyperspace is just so damn cool. The vulnerability you feel sat there in front of your canopy as the whole sky gets sucked around you in a vortex is just awesome. My other favourite VR game right now is Subnautica, which also delivers an amazing sense of scale and vast space. Oh and playing Windlands on my mates Vive for the first time was absolutely terrifying. I suppose the other thing to mention is that right now for both devices there is still little to nothing in the way of proper meaty built from the ground up for VR titles. There are some short but sweet ones out for both, but really the only VR games with any longevity right now are the ones where support has been added into a regular game post release. ED kind of bucks the trend by having had support in from a very early stage. So another good reason to sit on the fence a while longer is to wait for some more substantial games to come out and for development on some of the early access titles to become a bit more fleshed out and rounded.

But if you really must buy one right now then either HMD will give you a good time, just go with the one that tickles your personal preferences.

I agree completely, it's new, it's wonky, both have teething issues and yes the resolution is borderline on horrible.
And I don't care.

I was chomping at bits to get my HMD, any of the two, and it turned out I ended up with both.
Think I'm just going to swallow the credit card debt and keep both

Guess that means no UHD tv upgrade for me this year, or the next...

 

[Chaz]

But I don't consider that or the rift really as real VR anymore, it's playing games with a stereo HMD nothing more, it's a brilliant way to play but to me VR = room play.
Discussion done.

Erm, there was no discussion, just a statement of your preference.

Will just mention on the Vive, there is a small lid where all the cables go into the HMD, you pop that and you can see that the cables are all detachable using regular HDMI\USB plugs in adition to the DC power, there is a spare USB port on the HMD, it's a bit cumbersome to use, but you should be able to plug a pair of USB headphones into it and just use the HMD as a pass through hub, in theory at least.

Tried that and the cables still some how always end up in a horrible mess, even after cable tying them to the Vive's main cable. Trust me wireless is the way to go.

 

[DD_Crash]

I have to wear glasses so how do you adjust the focus on the VR headsets? I "sat" in a DCS P-40 at flying legends and was very impressed but it was blurred. The feeling of being in an aircraft was amazing and I even wanted to reach out to grab the throttle

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Erm, there was no discussion, just a statement of your preference.



Tried that and the cables still some how always end up in a horrible mess, even after cable tying them to the Vive's main cable. Trust me wireless is the way to go.

I meant that more as a descriptive statement on how a speaker setup will be ok for front facing experiences, like watching a movie, or playing a sim (facing in one direction type game), but as soon as you step out of that speaker sweetspot the benefits of a headset far out way the benefits that you now have lost using speakers.
Anyhoo, it's a digression and applies equally to either HMD.

I have to wear glasses so how do you adjust the focus on the VR headsets? I "sat" in a DCS P-40 at flying legends and was very impressed but it was blurred. The felling of being in an aircraft was amazing and I even wanted to reach out to grab the throttle

There is sadly no focus adjustment on either the Rift or the vive.
The vive can expand the room inside the HMD a little to accommodate bigger frames but this does not do anything to focus, and increasing the distance will decrease FOV greatly.
Since the manual sucks try this:
http://www.roadtovr.com/htc-vive-hidden-mechanism-maximum-field-of-view-lens-to-eye-distance/

In essence pull out the the circular 'bits' over the sidebands attachement point and rotate.

 

[dogbite]

I have to wear glasses so how do you adjust the focus on the VR headsets? I "sat" in a DCS P-40 at flying legends and was very impressed but it was blurred. The feeling of being in an aircraft was amazing and I even wanted to reach out to grab the throttle

I went to contact lenses which work out well, but I still found the heat from the OLEDs drying and with contacts you can't play with the position a little, like us old farts often do with our glasses, so I ordered these. https://vr-lens-lab.com/
A couple of guys at DCS were quite thrilled with the solution. I will post my opinion when they arrive. I expect in about 2 or 3 weeks as they are just finishing up their Kickstarter orders. For those interested, they come from Germany and with the blue light protection coating the cost was $200 Canadian. You can order just the adapters and have your Optometrist have the lenses made. After consulting with mine, he suggested I have them do the lenses as they will custom fit to the Rift or the Vive and the converted price was highly competitive. They accept Paypal.

You can't adjust focus in either headset, only adjust pixel density for sharper images. You can adjust IPD.

 

[DD_Crash]

Thanks for that You would think that with the number of people who wear glasses the market would be huge for them.

 

[JerryLove]

There is sadly no focus adjustment on either the Rift or the vive.

Focus is adjusted on the rift by raising and lowering the headset on your face.

The lenses have been sculpted to offer variable focus based on the angle of view.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Focus is adjusted on the rift by raising and lowering the headset on your face.

The lenses have been sculpted to offer variable focus based on the angle of view.

No their not, there might be a side effect where one angle works better for some with minor defects but I assure you its not intentional.

Its just finding the optimal position for the lenses for your face/eye position.
The gear vr and HDK2 are for now the only hmd's with actual focus adjustment. That I know of.

Of those I have the gear and the focus adjustment on that is large enough I can use it without glasses and with.
Neither with the cv1 or the vive are glasses or contacts "optional".

 

[Khaldur]

I have to wear glasses so how do you adjust the focus on the VR headsets? I "sat" in a DCS P-40 at flying legends and was very impressed but it was blurred. The feeling of being in an aircraft was amazing and I even wanted to reach out to grab the throttle

You cannot really adjust the focus on either HMD. I just wear either contact lenses or my normal glasses with my Oculus Rift. Perfectly comfortable either way for me. It depends on the size and form factor of your glasses whether they fit comfortably under the Rift though.

 

[dogbite]

If your considering a Rift or Vive and wear prescription lenses for distance, you will need them in either HMD.
My eye doctor was pleased I added the "artificial blue light" coating to my VR Lens order. Long exposure to this type of light (as we gamers are likely to do) can result in severe eye damage, adds to eye fatigue, cause headaches and disrupt sleep. given the proximity of these OLEDs to your eyes this type of filter is well advised regardless of your vision requirements. Food for thought.

 

[Chaz]

I have to wear glasses so how do you adjust the focus on the VR headsets? I "sat" in a DCS P-40 at flying legends and was very impressed but it was blurred. The feeling of being in an aircraft was amazing and I even wanted to reach out to grab the throttle

That blurriness of stuff that is not in your immediate vicinity is the current state of the resolution in VR, nothing you can really do about that.

If you need to wear glasses then I would either go with contact lenses as I have done or go for these https://vr-lens-lab.com/, they're prescription lenses that fit inside your HMD so that you don't have to wear your glasses with it. If your glasses can fit inside the HMD then you can of course wear them but I found it much more preferable not to. The glasses get pushed right up against your face and it's a pain to put the HMD on without moving them out of position. Even when the HMD is on you are generally constantly adjusting them by pushing on the arms behind your ears. Things get steamed up quicker and the glasses smudged easily if they get nudged against your eyes. Also if you have slim designer style frames that don't fill your whole vision then the tops and bottoms of the frames become quite apparent. Wearing glasses with a HMD is doable and bearable but it's just so much better if you can find a way of doing without them.

 

[NoshDaMinsk]

I have a CV1 (after owning a DK2).

Very happy with it.

It is comfortable.

ED works lovely.

I have not tried a Vive, but I am happy with what I have.

Games played - ED, Iracing, Dirt Rally, DCS.

VR is the future and we can all be part of it. Whether it is a CV1 or Vive.

OK, I need to check in with my Engineer.........

......laterz...

Nosh.

 

[dogbite]

Meanwhile back at the ranch. As the original post video was obviously biased for 2 reasons. 1 politics which, if you are bothered by the history or FB in general, I suspect would keep you from considering the Rift and 2 the lack of hand controllers which are suggested to make Vive games less "boring"
Let me say right off that the Rift has a lot of boring stuff. Of course the Vive doesn't because you get your "hands in the game" ---unless of course your these guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ0JTkBZdyw

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I consider myself a fair bit of an Audiophile or at least an AV geek.
But CATPAIN is also completely disregarding the physics and psychoacustics of audio.
Well that's also par for the course for most enthusiasts. And how the industry can sell $10000/m speaker cables.

You raise lots of valid points. However I'm not an audiophile, I just don't want to use headphones. I don't mind interference or an imperfect sweet spot as long as I can feel the bass and manage to determine a sound sources general direction. That shouldn't be all that hard to accomplish from a programming perspective.

Taking Raw Data (the game) as an example, it would be enough to calibrate my orientation whenever I beam to a new location and keep the rotation fixed from there. As it stands now, I consider that game unplayable. I don't use phones in my Apartment for the same reason I don't wear thigh-boots when doing a footbath or using condoms with my wife.

Meanwhile back at the ranch. As the original post video was obviously biased for 2 reasons. 1 politics which, if you are bothered by the history or FB in general, I suspect would keep you from considering the Rift and 2 the lack of hand controllers which are suggested to make Vive games less "boring"

There's always going to be some personal bias involved. You state the video is biased because it refers to "politics" and I'd state anyone ignoring the companies business conduct is.

IS sells fuel, their fuel may be just as good as anyone else's and it might even give you a little more bang for the buck. I'm personally not that fond of their political agenda, so yes: call me biased. And no - that doesn't make me an "Opec fanboy", I just choose the lesser of two evils.

 

[JerryLove]

I consider myself a fair bit of an Audiophile or at least an AV geek.

I've had some excellent conversations with the likes of Floyd Toole and Roger Russel.

Well that's also par for the course for most enthusiasts. And how the industry can sell $10000/m speaker cables.

No. Those are sold because of the placebo effect.

Speakers depend on a sweetspot and for most average living rooms that spot is maybe at most 50cm in all six directions.

Ummm. no.

Your biggest single issue, assuming you aren't having something like cone breakup, is off-axis fidelity (see "the acoustics and psycoacustics of speakers in rooms" by Dr.Toole as an example)

And the major tenant in audio and especially surround sound setups is calibration. Calibration calibration and more calibration. Of course after position position position.

There are only a few frequency ranges heavily impacted by calibration. Room modes and the like. Mostly in LF.

You move your ears half a meter up or down and you will move in and out of various standing waves especially for bass response, this could be as much as 20db! difference between one listener position and another at certain frequencies.

You may. This is why mutliple subwoofers is important to a proper home theater.

I have personally been in homes with equipment as expensive as the house and the difference between one seat and another is audio nirvana and just hell.

Me too. I've also been in any number (including my own) with an excellent area of good coverage.

Some of the worst offenders, especially in vertical, are the electrostatic speaker.

Even if you had 7+ absolutely identical speakers plus an array of subwoofers it would be impossible to get decent frequency response over the entire room unless you did some major software processing voodoo using 3d positional tracking.

well yes. If it put my ear to one speaker, it will be way too loud.

One problem so far is neither oculus or vive has given much care to audio, I honestly suspect they are having driver issues and I suspect the chief issue is from the windows hdmi audio driver that has a hard coded crossover at 80hz range settings, when you run audio out hdmi it is mostly to an av receiver, if you then don't have a sub it pushes that lfe back into the front speakers and it sounds a bit like at least the vive doesn't do that.
The rift might be using usb for audio, but it's kind of hard to tell since the on set headphones distort rather badly in the low end.

XMax issues. the lwer the frequency, the more air you must move. The higher the volume, the more air you must move. Small headsets will always have lF drop-off.

Personally I don't bother too hard with pc-audio you can only squeeze so much blood from a stone. I use my PC for gaming mostly and most game audio is just rendered from compressed to death assets anyways, using external "HiFi" dac's etc to output audio is also really not that good an idea considering latency issues, you kind of want to hear that audio cue on cue and not 400ms later.

The hi-fi DAC market is pretty similar to the $10k cable market.

So on the PC I play with regular cans and I do use the actually headphones supplied on the rift cause why not, they are practical and on par with pretty much any other gaming set of cans most games are designed to anyways.

I use the built-ins as well. They are quite sufficient. Might someday switch to one of my Sony or B&W cans. We'll see.

 

[dogbite]

.

There's always going to be some personal bias involved. You state the video is biased because it refers to "politics" and I'd state anyone ignoring the companies business conduct is.

IS sells fuel, their fuel may be just as good as anyone else's and it might even give you a little more bang for the buck. I'm personally not that fond of their political agenda, so yes: call me biased. And no - that doesn't make me an "Opec fanboy", I just choose the lesser of two evils.

The 2 videos that I posted offered opinions by people who own both HMD's and reviewed them based on the strengths and weakness of each and some of the available software. I referred to the original video as biased as he chose to attack the politics (as he felt about them) and the lame "hand controller argument" with no real evaluation of the strengths and weakness of each. Not a review, just a political rant and certainly not created to as he says " FINALLY check out the consumer version Rift"

If I were to adopt your criteria or his for making a purchase decision ( the alleged protectionist practices of large companies) I would own neither Windows or Intel and a lot of other stuff no doubt. I personally made the decision based on what I play and what I felt would achieve that best for me. I read a lot of reviews and watched a lot of video reviews (many were biased) and feel I met my goal. My point to the Op (an undecided) was to do the same and not let one slanted video guide his choice.

If one chooses to consider the politics in their purchase decision that is cool and your right but making a video while calling yourself "LinusTech" and flogging hardware commercials while only climbing on the soapbox to rant without real coverage of said issue or the bloody hardware is crap. Just my bias against crap videos.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...If one chooses to consider the politics in their purchase decision that is cool and your right but making a video while calling yourself "LinusTech" and flogging hardware commercials while only climbing on the soapbox to rant without real coverage of said issue or the bloody hardware is crap. Just my bias against crap videos.

You've got a valid point there Commander.

 

[dogbite]

You've got a valid point there Commander.

Thanks

 

[Drink!]

Thanks

You are welcome.