News NPC AI update

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pirates need to act like pirates, and not ask me for cargo when i have none....... tho the assassins seem to do a fair job.

^^this. That's my main criticism ATM. Not the harder AI or RNG silliness but the fact that pirates act more like psychopaths. It would a pretty simple fix as well (at least to my mind) - just give them the same behaviour as powerplay pirates, they interdict and immediately cargo scan you exactly like any normal, sane player pirate would.

Would also be nice if after multiple interdictions in which you run away they send a direct message something along the lines of "Screw this, I'm not doing this all day...you're luck this time dreg. :p" and jump out :)

+1 rep for you good sir.
 
I was unaware that Power Play pirates acted differently.

The ones I run into - far too often - don't cargo scan, and only give me 3 seconds to "drop all that tasty cargo" when I have none before they unload on me. And these types most often interdict me when I am simply toodling about scanning systems - no cargo, no bounty, no reason to destroy me.
 
About "AI" - here are the file #1 and #2 (do not rememer, which is which :) )

https://yadi.sk/i/wOE_eEMrtWifY
https://yadi.sk/i/UaU63pXFtWiey

In one file (meeting with ASPs) take a look om 4:25-4:27 - ASP is hitting cutter in 1% per second. With 2-nd weapons only. This was only expert ASP. Max - 2nd lasers and 4 1st, as I remember
In second file I am firing in elite Fdl from 2:18 up to 2:32. All turrets are often firing, at least 2 - always. All this time FsL's hull remains 90% - 14 (Fourteen) seconds!

Which level of stupidity devs are threating us with this cheat!? They made lasers completely useless. Forgot to record a battle with Fed, in which I found, that lasers with 4 pips are restoring much slower, than with ASPs, it was visible, maybe, next time. Enjoy rockets, guys, and forgot about other?

dAlexis -

Video 1 - You are firing at the FDL with an all beam load out, the ship is likely using Mirrored Surface Composite. Look how fast you drop it's shields, once you get to the hull it is different story. A mix of Energy & Kinetic weapons would have solved your issue. Energy for shields, Kinetic for Hull.

The video also confirms my earlier thought's on your PIP management, your WEP Capacitor is drained, you are getting your butt kicked with only 1 or 2 PIPS in SYS. If that was a PvP situation you would have been dead in under a minute. There is no cheating in that first video, just a misunderstanding of your ship and the opponent's ships capabilities.

Video 2 - Sorry but no other way to put it, your combat ability and PIP management is terrible, those beams are doing you no favors, at some points you have 1 PIP in shields when under fire.

The good thing about these kind of videos is that it demonstrates the AI is not the issue, the devs need to provide more in game training. I can't see how you got to Dangerous Combat rank and owning a Cutter when you fly like that.

Here's a basic graph that details the difference in shield strength with Various PIPS in SYS. It would be a very good idea if you followed some online tutorials on how to fight and defend yourself.

Combat tutorials - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hElXzArVdmM&list=PLST2VzDxDCrwvkU6wYfo-z4UhGbObjl_M

This is an old chart, still a very good guide. The curve was slightly flattened a few updates back
dmzi38.png
 
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dAlexis -

Video 1 - You are firing at the FDL with an all beam load out, the ship is likely using Mirrored Surface Composite. Look how fast you drop it's shields, once you get to the hull it is different story. A mix of Energy & Kinetic weapons would have solved your issue. Energy for shields, Kinetic for Hull.

The video also confirms my earlier thought's on your PIP management, your WEP Capacitor is drained, you are getting your butt kicked with only 1 or 2 PIPS in SYS. If that was a PvP situation you would have been dead in under a minute. There is no cheating in that first video, just a misunderstanding of your ship and the opponent's ships capabilities.

Video 2 - Sorry but no other way to put it, your combat ability and PIP management is terrible, those beams are doing you no favors, at some points you have 1 PIP in shields when under fire.

[eaten by mice]

First of all - sorry too, but it's strange 4 me indeed, that you are threating these videos as combat videos. Maybe you are right about my flight possibilities, I will not loose my sleep due to this, ;) however I am using pips more often in real combat.
BUT! So smart pilot should understand, that the videos are not combat, but MEASUREMENT videos. These videos are taken not to show my abilities, which are, maybe, poor, but to measure AI strenght. Because I am understnding something in testing (doing this in real life), all videos were taken from the beginning to see the full picture and avoid any suspect of cutting only "needed" parts using PlaysTV client.
About 1st video: Please, ask yourself, how can I measure my hull crashing speed w\o loosing a shield? (ASP video) Was doing something like my real tactics (escaple, and load the shields& weapons >3km from target) but it was more difficult, than real combat - at least 1 enemy should be lest after shield dropping. But was done well, due to police - only 2% of hull crashed, crashing speed taken
About 2nd video - was planning to take a video of turrets fire with full WEP bank, and escape. Nothing other.

Additional remarks:
1. "Very maybe" ;) , you are right, that my pips management is poor, but it's strange to hear it from you after advice of the build, do not require this management at all :) Do not remember, was it from you, or from other men, writing about "more challenges" in th new patch. This challenge now contains huge pile of self-targeting rockets, and pressing fire with 4 sys pips. Nothing else. It previous patch it was much more challenging to find a balance between greed, firepower and defence, Python can fight with 3 pulses, 2 multicannons, shield& thrusters "A-1", but now hull crashing speed & weapons strenght now is awful. Prevbiously pulses were enough, now beams must be...
2. About 2nd video - you wrote about mirroring armour. By the way, how much energy should mirror this armour!? 25, 35, 50% - possibly. But I threat as a cheat mirroring ALL in nearly quarter of minute! Maybe, I am getting grumpy old man, but I want to see the reults of my exact fire in undefended target. Maybe, 50% of normal result, but the result, not nothing!
3. About mixing weapons. From common sense you are right, but I was testing this on Anaconda. With 4-2-2 multicannons and 3-3-3 beams. Belive me, that the result often was THE SAME, as in 2nd video. Changed 2 4th beam - much better. Maybe, these armour were kinetic and mirroring at the same time. :)

I do not like this patch, because somebody decided to use rockets and nothing else.
What shoul be improved, from my viewpoint:

1. Special armour shoul be effective no more, than 50% - not 100%, as now.
2. OK, let elites be engineered, but police scanner should give a report, which things are engineered, or complete report os modules. Just 2 understand, is it able 2 be beaten, or not.
3. Hull crashing speed should be aligned, and pulse lasers neede 2 be restored.
4. Something needed 2 be done with federal AI ships. Will try to capture measurement video about theese.
 
Nice to see the AI and game play is still not very good, all they had to do was just give the AI a little tweak to stop the death spins but it seems the game itself has gone into its own death spin, now you only read about the ace pilots who made I would guess most of their money pre AI update to nutcase 2.0, these guys say GIT GOOD. Then you have the casual players who maybe played the original Elite ( or maybe didn't ) and the game now consists of running, get interdicted..... run some more. I used to play every waking moment, whilst holding down a real job but to be honest it really has gone      up on here, maybe frontier don't want my kind playing, I know that they've managed to get the 8 guys off my shift who were hooked on it to start playing other games and that's a real shame.
 
First of all - sorry too, but it's strange 4 me indeed, that you are threating these videos as combat videos.

Hey dAlexis, first things first, I may come across as blunt, we are just playing a game so no hard feelings mate ;) The videos we posted show the basics of combat, you can't post of video of yourself engaging in combat then claim it is not really combat, just a measurement of opponents strength. We can simply look at DPS/load out/Shield stats to understand an opponents strength.

Any live hostile engagement with an NPC or CMDR is a dynamic situation - Two different cmdrs can be in identical ships against the same opponent and have vastly different experiences. Hence why someone in a 1500mj Cutter can complain about being killed against cheating AI whilst another finds combat incredibly easy.

About 1st video: Please, ask yourself, how can I measure my hull crashing speed w\o loosing a shield? (ASP video) Was doing something like my real tactics (escaple, and load the shields& weapons >3km from target) but it was more difficult, than real combat - at least 1 enemy should be lest after shield dropping. But was done well, due to police - only 2% of hull crashed, crashing speed taken

Ok I understand you now, you are saying you let the NPC's beat you in order to see how much hull damage you would take with no shields :)

Do not remember, was it from you, or from other men, writing about "more challenges" in th new patch. This challenge now contains huge pile of self-targeting rockets, and pressing fire with 4 sys pips.

My videos using seekers are to demonstrate basic self defense, survival & combat techniques in a freighter with low shielding, the videos speak for themselves. We are not talking about high level PvP here, just being able to survive an interdiction or destroy any level of NPC that has pulled you out of warp. Seeker missiles or mines are a good option for anyone struggling, I am not claiming it requires a great deal of skill, my videos are demonstrating the exact opposite, follow a few simple rules (PIP management/good offensive load out/correct escape tactics) follow those rules outlined by myself and many others and you will find NPC's are a non issue.

You can name any ship or load out I & can post a combat video with actual active PIP management and how to survive in a Haz RES or PvP situation, it's not why I post here, the people having issues are normally peaceful traders in weak freighters trying to get from A to B, when I say PIP management in a freighter I mean at least understand how important it is to put 4 in SYS.

2. About 2nd video - you wrote about mirroring armour. By the way, how much energy should mirror this armour!? 25, 35, 50%

I can't answer you without knowing the exact loud out of the NPC - Here's something to mull over https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/246086-Official-FDev-Damage-Stats-for-Every-Weapon

I do not like this patch, because somebody decided to use rockets and nothing else.

Add me in game if you want - CMDR name FLEX1978

I don't just use seeker missiles, only on my freighters. Am often in a Viper/FDL/Python with various load outs. Seekers/Mines are a good defensive loud out, there are much better combinations if you are purely looking for combat.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

would guess most of their money pre AI update to nutcase 2.0, these guys say GIT GOOD. Then you have the casual players who maybe played the original Elite.

Get over it mate, that Git gud line is getting old. Any casual player can learn how to put 4 PIPS in shields and not run way in a straight line. It is not difficult, just requires some very basic understanding of the game mechanics.
 
Get over it mate, that Git gud line is getting old. Any casual player can learn how to put 4 PIPS in shields and not run way in a straight line. It is not difficult, just requires some very basic understanding of the game mechanics.

I play a Game to run away from NPC´s ?
Seriously?
No AI Fix = no return to the Game for me.
 
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Seriously? Why the hell not?
Watch a movie or something that you don't have to run away from then lol.

This something just contains converting a ship into dumb piece of iron, purchacing a pile of rockets or looking at 14 seconds of "unkillable caballjero". Nothing else. You may blame, or teach men, do not want to look on this, but, please, ask youself - do you beleive, that it'll successful? And give honest answer to yourself. You are just teaching disco fans to like rap. Will it be successful? Men, do not want to look at this new AI, will just leave these "drifting axes", ships are very looking like after patch. They will do exactly according to dumb, stupid, but at least a bit funny Russian short folk poem, excellently translated to English by somebody with perfect knowledge of both languages. In original "town of Byron" is "village Kukuevo", but other is the same

Down the river drifts an axe
From the town of Byron
Let it float by itself
F...reaking ;) piece of iron!

Floating axes will be left indeed, if no changes...
 
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Seriously? Why the hell not?
Watch a movie or something that you don't have to run away from then lol.

I do watch Movies and play other Games.
But in every Game i´ve play the Fun stands in front.
So tell me.
Where is the Fun if you need to run away from every second NPC?
I have no problems with harder Enemys and Boss NPC´s but they are standing in every Corner and waiting to catch you.
And i have a Problem with a AI Boost thats only possible by giving them Cheats (Unlimited Ammo, Unhuman Agility, fast Shield reload)
Is this sounds like Fun?
In my opinion it is not.
 
That is good news to hear! I have not really played much in the haz res sites when I sold my Vulture for an AspX. Now with my fully A-rated Python, I nearly died several times. Apparently, shooting at an Elite Python who has other NPC's of the same faction, will instantly start shooting at me (even though they're not in a wing). Haha. Maybe I should brush up on those skills of flying this tank (even though it's multipurpose oriented)? Oh well. Time to upgrade with more engineers.
Always good to hear the Dev team is working on something.
 
I was unaware that Power Play pirates acted differently.

The ones I run into - far too often - don't cargo scan, and only give me 3 seconds to "drop all that tasty cargo" when I have none before they unload on me. And these types most often interdict me when I am simply toodling about scanning systems - no cargo, no bounty, no reason to destroy me.

If Frontier cared about the player experience more than how "awesome their NPC AI is" they would allow us more variety in coming up with strategies to deal with pirates.

For instance, let the engineers - on rare occasions, create cloaked armour (with the Star Trek proviso you can't fire when cloaked)...so the defenceless cargo transporter is actually in a wing with something very big and very armed! Or, I love this idea, what about being able to rig a cargo canister with a mine with a timer on it...so pirates who are careless about their scanning, scoop on board a nice surprise. A minute later whilst you are in another system you get a nice little update and a bounty credit...

This is an almost infinite Universe - lets see some variety. I love the idea of getting out of a tight scrape with a bit of ingenuity or out of the box thinking. :D
 
If Frontier cared about the player experience more than how "awesome their NPC AI is" they would allow us more variety in coming up with strategies to deal with pirates.

For instance, let the engineers - on rare occasions, create cloaked armour (with the Star Trek proviso you can't fire when cloaked)...so the defenceless cargo transporter is actually in a wing with something very big and very armed! Or, I love this idea, what about being able to rig a cargo canister with a mine with a timer on it...so pirates who are careless about their scanning, scoop on board a nice surprise. A minute later whilst you are in another system you get a nice little update and a bounty credit...

This is an almost infinite Universe - lets see some variety. I love the idea of getting out of a tight scrape with a bit of ingenuity or out of the box thinking. :D
I'd hesitate to suggest such tactics in fear they may be embedded in a future release to the NPC AI :)
 
I'm a bit late to this thread, was out exploring until a couple of weeks ago. I had the absolute snot beaten out of me in Beta, so was a bit worried coming back, but to be honest I've found the AI now not exceptionally hard.

I'm in an Asp with light shields and a couple of beam weapons, and haven't died yet in 2.1 (non-Beta). Submit to every interdiction, boost away with 4 pips to shields, I don't even have to high-wake, I can boost to the 3-4km distance mark then just supercruise out. I had a couple of close calls (deployed weapons instead of retracting, the FSD powered down due to be power-management so needed boot-up time) but even then I got away.

I actually really like the NPC persistence. To me it's far more realistic than an enemy who just gives up if you run from him/her once. If it happens to me, I usually pay a visit to a station and when he follows me into the no fire zone... big baddie boom.

There are some oddities though:

- I'm getting the usual NPC smack-talk the instant I arrive in a system, even though no ship appears on the scanner for many seconds after this.
- I leave a fight at a signal source, I fly for several minutes with nothing around me or following me, I drop into a new signal source, and there my enemy is again. How? Issues like this with the instancing model are really jarring, IMO. I don't like "space magic".
- I'm Dangerous in Combat, and Elite in Exploration. I think that means I should see ships that are up to my combat rank +1, so Deadly. But I'm seeing being interdicted by Elite pirates.
 
I have watched this tread for a while and while there is a lot of whining and maybe bad flying and pip management going on there is still a problem NOT WITH THE AI but with the NPC load outs. I am sick of being interdicted by NPC ships loaded with heat shock and impulse weapons. I can just survive but no way fight back these engineer beefed up NPC are a complete pain in the     . Several times Anaconda A8 shields with 4 boosters have been dropped in less than 10 sec and before 777Driver asks, no I don't have videos, and resent that as you have implied in the past lack of video evidence suggests that the poster is lying or just incompetent.
Also in res sites once these uber NPC open up there is very little time to get in on the act before they destroy the target and god forbid you accidentally hit one with a stray shot, then the whole bunch with thermal weapons abandon their targets and descend with massive fire shields and thrusters gone in seconds rebuy time.

This needs sorted. PIP management and fancy flying mean nothing if its all over in a few seconds.
 
Several times Anaconda A8 shields with 4 boosters have been dropped in less than 10 sec and before 777Driver asks, no I don't have videos, and resent that as you have implied in the past lack of video evidence suggests that the poster is lying or just incompetent. .

An anaconda cannot even fit C8 shields. 7A shields with 4xA boosters is a little over 1000 MJ shields, and NPCs dont drop that in 10 seconds. NPCs also dont have modded weapons, thermal warnings are from standard, non-modded weapons that do thermal-type damage. When you finally add the 'poor me got a bounty for no reasons and my conda got destroyed in seconds again' the conclusion seems kinda obvious. Ask Driver777 if you are curious. :) There is ofcourse an alternative: you are a great pilot, you just keep losing massively expensive uber-ships in seconds to myserious opponents that no person who records his game has ever met. Its like bigfoot: you can claim what you want, but if you want to make such amazing claims in the 21th century, dont expect people to just take your word for it.
 
Sorry typo on the shields but the rest still stands. So the green and purple      that gets fired is from standard weapons?.
 
Sorry typo on the shields but the rest still stands. So the green and purple that gets fired is from standard weapons?.

Depends on what you refer to, but yes. For example, plasma accelerators are thermic type and coloured. People often confuse it for modded weapons, but they are not. They are rather powerful though, but a PITA to aim with. Against huge ships like condas they are grand though! :p A corvette with two huge PAs can remove your shield in five salvos. Will take a bit more than ten seconds though, even with perfect aiming and non-stop ashooting its 15, and that only happens if you fly in a straight line versus a high-ranked corvette with zero pips in system. FdLs or Condas can do it in 30-40 seconds. Which is ofcourse way too slow to prevent you from high-waking! Time more than doubles with full pips to system, so simply numerically speaking I cant believe the '10 seconds' or even 'within some seconds' without really convincing evidence.
 
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How do you kill this Enemy with 4 Pips on System?
My Shields survive the first Flyby with 4 Pips to System but then i´ve change 4 Pips to Weapons and before my Weapons have recharged iam already been attacked again.
NPC´s have much faster Turnspeed then Humans.
Or is the 4 Pips to Shield the gloryous "Run away from NPC´s" Variation of Zero Fun Gameplay?
 
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