News NPC AI update

[dAlexis]

I've recently found out entering a Conflict Zone when being Hostile to one of the Factions automatically marks them Red before Faction is chosen in the right Panel.
So here's my heavily modded FAS entering a High Intensity CZ - despite instantly Chaffing, tapping Afterburner and entering the CZ w/ 4/2/0 Pips - Shields gone after 5-7sec (Modded Plasma but mainly modded Railguns hitting with grim accuracy)

Quite interesting to start the fight with 90% Hull, gone Shields and some random Module damage

However : interesting - but doable, at least in this heavily armoured Battle Rig.

[eaten by mice...]

all those issues I adapted to, to the best of my abilities. Works, but just often leaves a foul taste...

Enjoy new AI and flying on dumb piece of iron just 4 fight! . Nothing other.

4 me is completely unknown, what 2 do with large ships (exception - trade cutter & exploration clipper).
Trade - Python & Anaconda simply masslocked and beaten by Anaconda, Clipper too. Clipper can run away quickly, but trading possibilities are weak, because heavy Clipper is loosing speed more, and may be hit.
Fighht - Loud laughter. I was trying this on Python & Anaconda. Python with 2 shield boosters is 0 in fight with elite feds or Anaconda. Other is police scasnner & point defence. Cracked in 1-2 min with military composite, enginered shield boosters etc. Anaconda left 2% of hull after elite fed meeting. With 5 (Five) engineeres boosters 7th shield and 4th beam laser.
Explore - Cutter & Python are looking strange. Anaconda will be intercepted and destroyed, good, if going out, not returning back. Clipper with engineered FSD & trusters left, it can escape quickly enough, if intercepted.

Great "thanks" to devs and new "AI"! Maybe I'll collect Farseer level5 (currently 4) create good FSD, purchace a Clipper and fly away from this AI, new upsates, etc and do not see results of future patches and updates, which are making the game worse. And devs will not see my money in this case. I recommend 2 everybody disliking new AI - vote by money and simply fly away into galaxy from this horror. I hope, that exploration will remain the same, and what will be in the bubble - no mind. Will return 2 times per year, and look 4 AI improvement.

 

[persian]

Some people enjoy the hardcore fight and they like to fly like a champ that's absolutely fine but some other guys like me they like to have fun and enjoy the ease to separate themselves from difficulties which they are fighting with them in their real life and ooze in some sort of tranquillity and being the boss in the the game they love to play. As for me I used to play the the game on daily bases since the patch I just played it for 2 days and it was really maddening so I stopped playing altogether because lets face it we have enough stress in our life with our jobs and all that so I don't want to add on top of it so I pass on that

 

[777Driver]

Enjoy new AI and flying on dumb piece of iron just 4 fight! . Nothing other.

4 me is completely unknown, what 2 do with large ships (exception - trade cutter & exploration clipper).
Trade - Python & Anaconda simply masslocked and beaten by Anaconda, Clipper too. Clipper can run away quickly, but trading possibilities are weak, because heavy Clipper is loosing speed more, and may be hit.
Fighht - Loud laughter. I was trying this on Python & Anaconda. Python with 2 shield boosters is 0 in fight with elite feds or Anaconda. Other is police scasnner & point defence. Cracked in 1-2 min with military composite, enginered shield boosters etc. Anaconda left 2% of hull after elite fed meeting. With 5 (Five) engineeres boosters 7th shield and 4th beam laser.
Explore - Cutter & Python are looking strange. Anaconda will be intercepted and destroyed, good, if going out, not returning back. Clipper with engineered FSD & trusters left, it can escape quickly enough, if intercepted.

Great "thanks" to devs and new "AI"! Maybe I'll collect Farseer level5 (currently 4) create good FSD, purchace a Clipper and fly away from this AI, new upsates, etc and do not see results of future patches and updates, which are making the game worse. And devs will not see my money in this case. I recommend 2 everybody disliking new AI - vote by money and simply fly away into galaxy from this horror. I hope, that exploration will remain the same, and what will be in the bubble - no mind. Will return 2 times per year, and look 4 AI improvement.

If you are not good at fighting, at the very least you follow the advice from experienced cmdrs regarding escape tactics. You keep talking about mass lock when it is irrelevant, you always have the option to high wake and override a maslock.

I could post a video of an unmodified Python/T9/anaconda/Cutter, surviving against an Elite Anaconda or any other ship ingame... Never firing a single shot back, simply waiting for the cooldown and highwaking.

As I've mentioned previously, the issue is with certain cmdr's methods, clearly whatever methods you are using are getting you killed. Instead of analyzing and changing your methods, your solution is for the devs to fix the AI :/ (in other words make it so easy that you don't have to think about your method) It amazes me that you managed to get into the seat of a Cutter without realising this, I can only guess you fast tracked your way into a Cutter.

 

[Otherwhere]

There are still NPCs with super powerful weapons out there. I stopped into a USS Degraded Emissions (threat 0) that was a trap. I had lowered my cargo scoop when I got a message: "I can't believe that worked!" By the time I hit Retract Scoop, my shields were gone, followed by another hit and the "Eject, Eject, Eject" death screen. Total time: no more than 5 seconds.

I had 4 pips in SYS (my default) and 2 in ENG. Dead in 5 seconds. No chance to escape. OK - it was a trap. But it was a reminder that there are still uber ships out there. No time to jump, hardly time to react. If this were rarer than its been, that would be one thing. But this wasn't my first encounter with such enemy NPCs.

And I'm still Harmless for my combat rank. No idea what hit me. Viper Mk IV, I think.

I just chalked it up to: "Bad DM deathtrap" and went on with my rebuy. Had a couple other pirate encounters that day, but nothing like this. One escape was at 9% shields (guy was firing missiles), but I did get away, and that's been following the "submit/boost/boost/jump" with 4SYS/2ENG/0WEP setup.

I wish that FD would equip their pirates with cargo scanners. My deadliest encounters have all been when I have no cargo, no missions, no bounty, and am simply out scanning systems as an explorer.

 

[CMDR Rakzoid]

I think the AI is good as it is now. I concider myself an average player and will never be an above average. After last update I love the fact I got the option to fight or flee (I usually flee lol).
I have seen many solutions to evade a fight and eventually use the one that works best for me. 4 pips on engine and boost away from interdicting NPC. As long as I keep the NPC at my tail, only once in a while I get a little bit of hull dmg.
Best practice is submitting to an unannounced interdiction so the fsd is up fast and no pre dmg to ship due to being spinned to a stop.
If the interdiction is announced by the NPC (seeing the NPC chat to you) drop out of super cruise before being interdicted. This way you have no load time on the fsd and the moment you see the NPC land on your location hit supercruise again.
It can be fun even now and then . Most times I used the drop before interdiction in a single flight towards a station is 9, but got there whitout any dmg

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

i certainly think it is along the right lines.... at least so far as for those in the smaller ships (I cant comment in the bigger ones as i have been starting from the start again)

but i have seen the insurance screen more times in 2.1 than in the past 18 months of the game put together. if i had anything to add for improvments it would not be on how potentially deadly the ships are, but on their logic.

pirates need to act like pirates, and not ask me for cargo when i have none....... tho the assassins seem to do a fair job.

i also think the ai need to stop cheating, with their spawn interdictions and always being ready to attack when dropping into usses etc.. basically i would like to feel more like i am being actively hunted and am the prey rather than the game decide its time for a fight and it drag me in like it was final fantasy.

finally...... i have it on fairly sound authority (not risked it myself since 2.1) that any form of stealth build is still completely broken in 2.1 with the ships knowing where you are at all time.....


but, despite those issues the current ai is a leap in the right direction over 2.0 imo.

 

[Otherwhere]

but i have seen the insurance screen more times in 2.1 than in the past 18 months of the game put together. if i had anything to add for improvments it would not be on how potentially deadly the ships are, but on their logic.

I find this strangely comforting. (I joined 1 week before 1.6/2.1/Skynet dropped.)

 

[Aris_]

There are some cases that it's ever dumber than pre 2.0. But there are still unplayable opponents showing up (at least to me). I came across an opponent that I was able to shoot down his shield and started crunching down his hull but eventually he managed to drop my shields and in one shot he disabled my thrusters. Then he quickly finished me like the sitting duck I was. I was in an A rated Asp Explorer and he was in a Viper MK III I think. Should not have been such an unplayable dogfight I think.

I don't see anything wrong in having capable AI. The problem with this game is that it changed without any apparent adjustment period did not have the necessary balance. It still has not reached a good balance even after 1 and a half month later. I'm confident that the balance will be reached. But will the damage to the game's reputation be ever fixed? We'll have to wait and see.

As I explained in my previous post the fights became more tactical , every fight even 1vs1 when you are against an opponent above dangerous you can be certain that he has engr. Weapons and during your fight you take module damage and you don’t notice it.


You need to incorporate special modules, tactics to counteract the damage.

 

[dAlexis]

If you are not good at fighting, at the very least you follow the advice from experienced cmdrs regarding escape tactics. You keep talking about mass lock when it is irrelevant, you always have the option to high wake and override a maslock.

I could post a video of an unmodified Python/T9/anaconda/Cutter, surviving against an Elite Anaconda or any other ship ingame... Never firing a single shot back, simply waiting for the cooldown and highwaking.

As I've mentioned previously, the issue is with certain cmdr's methods, clearly whatever methods you are using are getting you killed. Instead of analyzing and changing your methods, your solution is for the devs to fix the AI :/ (in other words make it so easy that you don't have to think about your method) It amazes me that you managed to get into the seat of a Cutter without realising this, I can only guess you fast tracked your way into a Cutter.

OK, let's take a calculator and see.

Here is my current trade cutter (no money 4 8A shield)
https://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial...4040j03034r070505050437f42f.Iw18ZZA=.Aw18ZZA=
Boosters (all) are engineered a bit (Farseer), real shield strenght is 1810. 2 3rd lasers are bit engeneered too - small range blaster lvl 1, but let's threat them as stock

Here is maximum vulture, I can imagine, was met by me
https://coriolis.io/outfit/vulture/2patfFdledksif30v0v040400004a5d27252h.Iw19kA==.Aw19kA==

In real life it's impossible (power), but let it be flying.

OK, let's calculate:
Vulture common shield is 542+~600 (bank) = 1150 -1200, mine is 1810
Vulture firepower is 48 MJ per second. I am firing in 2 min at least 4 times from head during 4 sec. (32+24+24)*16 = 1280. I should throw all the shields away only from head shooting, but! I have at least 2 always firing turrets (+18MJ per secong, accordig to Coriolis). 18*60 = 1080. Shield should be slain ~2.5 times in 2 minutes.

What I see in practice - my shield is 1\3, when opponent's is off. And configuration I set 4 Vulture, is unflyable in reality. And this is with cell bank, which overheating the hull, and with 5A distributir with 41 MJ to weapons - pauses should be.
Hull crashing speed is another interesting thing, that cannot be imagined...

Blame me, because I know damned ariphmacy, but this knowledge cannot be forgotten! Tell me, that I need to change my methods, etc - maybe you are right. But because I just know fugures, and calculating well - "foul taste" will not be left. Do not see good things in such levels of cheat, and cannot imagine them.

P.S. My way 2 cutter was simple indeed. Side, hauler, Adder, Cobra, T6 - quickly, ASP - very long. After 6K LY mini-expedition - half a year of Python, imperial delivery and smugglinmg missions, sevelal additional ships for fighting in rings (latest - FdL, well fitted). After patch - Fdl sold, purchaced Anaconda, next sold Python & Amaconda 4 Cutter.

P.P.S. Made an error in vulture - 1 chaff should be changed 2 heatsink.

 

[777Driver]

OK, let's take a calculator and see.

Here is my current trade cutter (no money 4 8A shield)
https://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial...4040j03034r070505050437f42f.Iw18ZZA=.Aw18ZZA=
Boosters (all) are engineered a bit (Farseer), real shield strenght is 1810. 2 3rd lasers are bit engeneered too - small range blaster lvl 1, but let's threat them as stock
.

That is a strange build for a trade Cutter, seems more like a hunter. Are you saying you are having issues surviving with that build? I'm running this https://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial...w18ZZA=.Aw18ZZA=?bn=Cutter - Longhaul config

Not a single NPC or Cmdr can drop the shields on that build, my T9 runs at 540mj of shields, as of yet not had any Elite ranked NPC drop the shields with 4 PIPS in SYS, not even a Cmdr in a Python managed to drop 540mj of shields. You must be doing something seriously wrong if you are struggling with 1800mj of shielding.

I can provide any videos you need to back up my statement.

EDIT - Noticed that you are running a heavy beam loadout, how are you maintaining 4 in SYS when those beams are killing your WEP capacitor, your beams must be shutting down within seconds unless you are transferring everything to WEP and leaving yourself vulnerable.



Cheers

 

[pipo zelvelder]

If you are not good at fighting, at the very least you follow the advice from experienced cmdrs regarding escape tactics. You keep talking about mass lock when it is irrelevant, you always have the option to high wake and override a maslock.

Yeah, but that brings you in the wrong system and you have to start over again... With the enemy still there. Or am i missing something? looks like lose or lose to me...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Is it my fault that i have 30% to Combat Elite pre AI Change?
NO!
Beta Time was over long before Engineers Update and the new AI.
Why the hack no one fixes the Bugs of the old AI?
So i could get the Deadly Rank for killing Dumb NPC´s and now they blast me out of Space.
And i only get Interdicted by Deadly or Elite Pirates with Mod Weapons.
Where is the Option to reset the Combat Rank?
Why no hard Reset of all Ranks?

Just file a ticket and ask to have your rank reset. I did and got mine reset; which gave me the opportunity to gather 40M relatively easy... Hopefully my ship will help me when i am above average again...

 

[pipo zelvelder]

Hey pipo If you are just wanting to do trading in the game, then get 5A thrusters, good shields (biWeave or A) and when you are interdicted, submit right away (throttle to 0 when the interdict happens) and then just boost a couple times with your engines at 4 (if you are never fighting, then you should ALWAYS be at Engines for, SYS at 2, weapons at 0) then hit J to jump back away. He shouldnt ever get through to your hull if you submit, boost and jump.

As someone else mentioned, you will get chain interdicted. If it annoys you too much, boost to 3km off of him, then start circling at 3-4km until the cops show up and kill him for you. Then Jump away and do your trading. With 4A or 5A thrusters your boost should be around 350 to 400, so not much chance of anything the AI is running catching you.

Hope that helps!

Thanx, that is exactly what I do and it works great. However, in 10% of the cases this goes wrong and i am in dire straits! So far, I maneged to escape everytime for the last two weeks, but I still like it more if I would have some chance against these interdictors.. however, it works for me now.. When I have a better ship (want a clipper now), I hope to engage in combat a bit more

 

[Riverside]

Yeah, but that brings you in the wrong system and you have to start over again... With the enemy still there. Or am i missing something? looks like lose or lose to me...

I don't high wake just to jump back in again, to me that's just instance resetting, and wouldn't work on a real Cmdr. If I were to high wake out it would be because I'd failed to pass the 'blockade', and I would be giving up, waiting for the baddie to leave then sneaking back in later once they've moved away. Sadly the new AI doesn't seem to support this kind of gameplay, it just generates a new baddie.

While I'm not keen on people posting advice on how to cheat the system, it's down to you to decide how you want to play the game.

 

[pipo zelvelder]

Umm... What DO you do in the game??
There are landing tutorials. I suggest repeating them over and over until you can land decently.

-----------

I sometimes wonder, not about people's abilities, but more about people's ideas of what a *game* is about. To have fun? Yup. But to just sit there, in an asteroid field, doing your chores to earn money to not have anything of significance really to spend it on, with no challenge whatsoever from pirates, is fun?

To be honest with you: I like the prior 1.6 game. I traded a bit, mined a bit and shot a few NPC's down and in fact did whatever mission looked nice and brought a lot of money. The game was great fun for me then (died a few times, but hey, that's the game). However, 1.6 forced me into mining, because all other missions became to dangerous for me (but maybe that was nog 1.6 but my rank???), and 2.1 made me stop for several weeks because in the beginning it was unplayable for me. I then let my rank reduced to harmless and bought a DBS to learn to cope with 2.1 AI. After training a lot and shooting pirates and stuff, I went back to my ASP, only to get interdicted twice in a row and be bancrupted (althoug I got the money back after placing a ticket).

Tried the landing mission about 10 times and then decided to never try that again unless I have to, because i crashed must of the times and it frustrated the hell out of me. (for some reason, I cannot combine the upward/downward thrusters with the "normal" thrusters... something about my abilities probably...

So, just looking for that old pre-1.6 feeling...

 

[dAlexis]

That is a strange build for a trade Cutter, seems more like a hunter. Are you saying you are having issues surviving with that build? I'm running this https://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial...w18ZZA=.Aw18ZZA=?bn=Cutter - Longhaul config

Not a single NPC or Cmdr can drop the shields on that build, my T9 runs at 540mj of shields, as of yet not had any Elite ranked NPC drop the shields with 4 PIPS in SYS, not even a Cmdr in a Python managed to drop 540mj of shields. You must be doing something seriously wrong if you are struggling with 1800mj of shielding.

I can provide any videos you need to back up my statement.

EDIT - Noticed that you are running a heavy beam loadout, how are you maintaining 4 in SYS when those beams are killing your WEP capacitor, your beams must be shutting down within seconds unless you are transferring everything to WEP and leaving yourself vulnerable.

Cheers

1. Hmm... Is the seup real? Laden mass 2303 tn. 6A max mass shield - 1350tn. How can it be?
2. So huge pile of fixed rockets are looking more strange 4 trader from my viewpoint.
3. Max power for systems from 7A distributor is 41 MJ. In practice - lower, recharge speed is 8 minutes. You will be vulnerable in any case, I think, because A4 laser is transferring approx. the same power, and there are additional 2nd and 3rd lasers (Anaconde, FdL). Best defence is attack, I think. According 2 common sense, the largest ship in game should be able 2 kill most single smaller pirates. Somebody from new patch crew simply enjoy rockets...
4. I wrote a video about meeting with 3 ASP, and will try to calculate hull crashing speed. 2 of ASPs were killed by police, only one left, after my shield gone and I need time to make calculations.

 

[r3per]

:
AI is still broke - not talking about their skill or weapons - talking about AI Cheats. Watch the video. Daily occurrence that is starting to wear down my patience.
:
:
[video=youtube_share;WiNHl1woP-E]https://youtu.be/WiNHl1woP-E[/video]

 

[rrobes]

:
AI is still broke - not talking about their skill or weapons - talking about AI Cheats. Watch the video. Daily occurrence that is starting to wear down my patience.
:
:
https://youtu.be/WiNHl1woP-E

This is a common occurrence. You are forced to either jump to another system or just keep boosting til they drop from the scanner and then go to low wake to repeat the cycle until you get within range of your destination.

I have lost contact maybe one NPC by boosting away for long time span, otherwise you just have to break the cycle by jumping to another system.

This AI cheat is at least better that it was before when elite NPC's could follow you through system jumps and materialize right next to you.

The NPC's being able to fly backwards as fast as forwards is just as bad.

 

[777Driver]

1. Hmm... Is the seup real? Laden mass 2303 tn. 6A max mass shield - 1350tn. How can it be?
2. So huge pile of fixed rockets are looking more strange 4 trader from my viewpoint.
3. Max power for systems from 7A distributor is 41 MJ. In practice - lower, recharge speed is 8 minutes. You will be vulnerable in any case, I think, because A4 laser is transferring approx. the same power, and there are additional 2nd and 3rd lasers (Anaconde, FdL). Best defence is attack, I think. According 2 common sense, the largest ship in game should be able 2 kill most single smaller pirates. Somebody from new patch crew simply enjoy rockets...
4. I wrote a video about meeting with 3 ASP, and will try to calculate hull crashing speed. 2 of ASPs were killed by police, only one left, after my shield gone and I need time to make calculations.

1. Shield mass is based on stock hull mass, in the case of the Cutter that is 1100 tonnes.

2. Seeker Missiles have almost zero WEP capacitor drain, allowing you to remain heavily defended with 4 in SYS whilst having immense fire power at your disposal. AS far as I am aware mines also allow you to keep 4 in SYS with minimal WEP capacitor drain. (The missiles should be seekers not fixed)

A full beam load out will quickly drain your WEP capacitor, forcing you to remove pips from SYS and leaving yourself vulnerable, not ideal for a freighter build.

Look, am trying to help you here but you seem to have it all figured out despite the fact that you are dying in a heavily shielded ship.

I am merely trying to show methods that clearly work for anyone that is struggling. I've posted these videos before, it clearly shows what 500mj is capable of sustaining as long 4PIPS remain in shields whilst performing an attack. Wont bother posting vids of the Cutter, you can fight in your sleep in that ship and never lose shields.

This is a freighter build, no engineer mods running 500mj of shields, before the devs nerfed the AI

[video=youtube;gtAqjkho1ro]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtAqjkho1ro[/video]

[video=youtube;F8qre-cT2zk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8qre-cT2zk&spfreload=10[/video]

[video=youtube;bxzrDtMION8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxzrDtMION8[/video]

 

[777Driver]

:
AI is still broke - not talking about their skill or weapons - talking about AI Cheats. Watch the video. Daily occurrence that is starting to wear down my patience.
:
:
https://youtu.be/WiNHl1woP-E

It was a Expert FDL & Dangerous Anaconda, you are flying a Cutter, load up on basic weapons and kill them. The chain interdiction has been ingame for a long time, the cooldown definitely needs looking into

 

[dAlexis]

About "AI" - here are the file #1 and #2 (do not rememer, which is which )

https://yadi.sk/i/wOE_eEMrtWifY
https://yadi.sk/i/UaU63pXFtWiey

Addition: Please, do not threat the videos, as combat. Were captured just for AI measurement only.

In one file (meeting with ASPs) take a look om 4:25-4:27 - ASP is hitting cutter in 1% per second. With 2-nd weapons only. This was only expert ASP. Max - 2nd lasers and 4 1st, as I remember
In second file I am firing in elite Fdl from 2:18 up to 2:32. All turrets are often firing, at least 2 - always. All this time FsL's hull remains 90% - 14 (Fourteen) seconds!

Which level of stupidity devs are threating us with this cheat!? They made lasers completely useless. Forgot to record a battle with Fed, in which I found, that lasers with 4 pips are restoring much slower, than with ASPs, it was visible, maybe, next time. Enjoy rockets, guys, and forgot about other?