News NPC AI update

[Abomination]

How are people still talking about this? The AI is just a notch above 2.0 kabob status. Dying is still 100% optional even vs Elites when flying crappy builds.

If anyone is still dying, they are doing about 12 things wrong at the same time. You can get away with 11 simultaneous egregious errors, but the 12th one may be your downfall.

Dude.. you know perfectly well it's also about the ship you're flying.
Try a python. Get interdicted by a deadly or elite fas. Enjoy.
It's not too hard to escape them. That's not the issue.
Unless that same npc starts chain interdicting you across the whole bubble, instantly, whereever you go.
Something which I can confirm does happen occasionally. Must be mission related since it only happens to when taking those 'get x ton of this' missions. Normal delivery missions never give me that much problems, not even the high rank ones. Could be coincidence though.
For others reading this: Good thing we have better cops now, so the trick is to high wake to a high security system, take some fire and let the cops jump in and deal with it. And help them out when the npc is almost dead to get the bounty voucher (pretty fun to watch actually).
Anyway, too easy or too hard doesn't matter. The AI is cheating big time and this nonsense should have been fixed ages ago.

 

[pipo zelvelder]

Is it my fault that i have 30% to Combat Elite pre AI Change?
NO!
Beta Time was over long before Engineers Update and the new AI.
Why the hack no one fixes the Bugs of the old AI?
So i could get the Deadly Rank for killing Dumb NPC´s and now they blast me out of Space.
And i only get Interdicted by Deadly or Elite Pirates with Mod Weapons.
Where is the Option to reset the Combat Rank?
Why no hard Reset of all Ranks?

actually, that is just what I did. I asked to degraded me back to harmless and after three attempts, they did put me back and I am playing all over now, hoping to learn how to cope with the new AI. So far i am doing great, got myself almost 50 million and going fort a clipper soon...

 

[pipo zelvelder]

Just completed an utterly frustrating 2 hours where I was interdicted and destroyed 3 times. The last one that made me turn off was at the completion of a 400ly mission delivering biowaste in my DBX. Interdicted by an FDL, security arrive and scan me, I blow up - the same story over and over. I wish the AI wasn't so dumb that it sees that I am carry 24 tons of **** and thinks it is a valuable target.

I don't play games to get frustrated - I play them to relax, especially after a less than stellar week at work. </Rant>

Same thing here; flew over 400ly to deliver 40t of biowaste and was shot in the last system by an elite ship within 20 seconds. Bonus would have been 6 milion credits.... well, apparently WHEN IT LOOKS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT PROPABLY IS... now lost 1,5 million and 1 hours of flying time, instead of trading 1 hour of game play for 6 million credits... (after playing lots of mission to even get this mission...)

 

[pipo zelvelder]

To be fair, 777Driver knows his stuff & is what many consider to be an exceptional T9 pilot. His advice is worth paying attention to. However, to expect every Cmdr to be able to handle this is a step too far, people make mistakes. Some people will never be as good as a top pilot at managing their workload, and what seems easy to some is just too much for another.

I do wish more people would come to terms with this and accept that most of us are making an effort, even if the results don't always bear this out.

But the real problem is this:
I am the first to admit that i am a bad pilot; really! Pip management is even too hard for me, most of the times I forget my pips, and I die a lot of times because of this... I also can hardly land without docking pilot (crashing to death 20% of the time)...
... ... ... (just give you all time to let this get through to your heads, I am a bad pilot...)

Should this mean that i can not play this trading/mining part of this wonderful game? Should this mean that elite is not for me? I will never goto LOWRES HIRES places, even trying bounties is too hard for me... But the trading part, mission part, mining part etc. are all ok. I will never do PvP, so what? Why can i not play this game as a bad pilot? Until 1.6 I was really happy with the game, but since 1.67 interdictions spoil the whole game, often robbing me of cargo and ship and making it very difficult to progress.

Luckily, I managed to get de-ranked and slowly build a small fortune by doing missions, but i am fearing the moment I become Above Average again, because then my ship will be blown to smithereens again with every interdiction I can not escape from (sometimes running does not succeed as i forget the pip or make some other error; at the cuurent rank, I can survive it, but that will only last one or two ranks...)

So, the real question is, is there room in the game for bad pilots? Pre-1.6 there was and i am just hoping that there will be room for me in the game. Otherwise, Elite will not mean the 1984 Elite, but Elite for Pilots only

 

[avow555]

How are people still talking about this? The AI is just a notch above 2.0 kabob status. Dying is still 100% optional even vs Elites when flying crappy builds.

If anyone is still dying, they are doing about 12 things wrong at the same time. You can get away with 11 simultaneous egregious errors, but the 12th one may be your downfall.

If people are still having issues then a problem still exists.
Basing your opponents on your elite rank is not the way to go in the game.

 

[Sans Daring]

But the real problem is this:
So, the real question is, is there room in the game for bad pilots? Pre-1.6 there was and i am just hoping that there will be room for me in the game. Otherwise, Elite will not mean the 1984 Elite, but Elite for Pilots only

I think it's an interesting question. Question is, is there any room for any player of any game if they do not match the overall focus. Yes, combat isn't the main focus of Elite, but conflict is a challenge that can affect everyone (where exploration/mining does not, for example). So in a way, do you need to "up your game" as you would in any game, to make sure you pass "the level"?

I think a better defense tutorial would be good (and there are some great community ones out there which give clear advice to deal with interdictions well), and I think on part of the player, maybe buying a cheap Sidey and just getting some more experience in interdictions (or going PVP/Private group and playing out an interdiction with a mate).

If you're in PVE and mining, I think it's a matter of ship. I think what many don't do in Elite (and should be encouraged by the game with module storage and the likes) is to get a few different ships rather than saving up for an Anaconda or Corvette as many do. Get a small Cobra as a side-ship, kit out cheaply, go do some mining. With a few turrets and shields, you'll be save to mine, and get used to improving the piloting to escape problem situations. A viper as a combat ship is actually pretty good in high res (and high res is well policed in democratic systems so there's support there as well). Good way to make money and improve combat confidence.

I think the new AI IS a lot better, but not impossible. Elite craft can be escaped, lower ranks can be more of a challenge. A range of ships suited to different tasks can be done relatively cheaply, and I think that will help hone skills and give a bit of variety. Forget the large ships and explore some of the smaller ones. Cobra is still a fine multi-task ship and for mining, a great PVE ship to escape if pirates pop by.

 

[pipo zelvelder]

Absolute nonsense, I can't believe people are still spouting this rubbish, even after the devs toned down the AI. I am flying the same cargo ships, seeing other cmdr's going about their business as normal in open, flying T6's/T7's/T9's Anaconda's & Cutters. Escape techniques for cargo pilots has been covered multiple times on the main forum, if your method is to fly away in a straight line after the pages of advice given, then you pretty much deserve to be looking at an insurance screen.

So yes, I looked at all these video's, and yes, you have given lots of good advice. But, in gameplay, I just can not do all these things at the same time. Apparently, my mind is not equipped to do all these things simultaneously. I just can mange my pips now and then during running away, so I can just do "slow down, submit, full throttle, boost, boost, boost and jump" oh, and now i forget pip...
So, my 55€ is totally wasted? I am just to bad to play?
Advice is good, but only if the advice is coherent with the abilities of the players and the abilities of his ship/material/goal in the game. I just want to trade/mine, do errands; that is what i like. That I have fight or run occasionally that is also OK. But Elite is fastly becoming very difficult for people like me:
The engineering stuff? too difficult, don't even know how to find an engineer, let alone the stuff
Landing on planets? I can not even land properly without a docking computer, tried to train that, but still suck at it, so landing planets is well out of the option

 

[QuattroTT]

So yes, I looked at all these video's, and yes, you have given lots of good advice. But, in gameplay, I just can not do all these things at the same time. Apparently, my mind is not equipped to do all these things simultaneously. I just can mange my pips now and then during running away, so I can just do "slow down, submit, full throttle, boost, boost, boost and jump" oh, and now i forget pip...
So, my 55€ is totally wasted? I am just to bad to play?
Advice is good, but only if the advice is coherent with the abilities of the players and the abilities of his ship/material/goal in the game. I just want to trade/mine, do errands; that is what i like. That I have fight or run occasionally that is also OK. But Elite is fastly becoming very difficult for people like me:
The engineering stuff? too difficult, don't even know how to find an engineer, let alone the stuff
Landing on planets? I can not even land properly without a docking computer, tried to train that, but still suck at it, so landing planets is well out of the option

Hey pipo If you are just wanting to do trading in the game, then get 5A thrusters, good shields (biWeave or A) and when you are interdicted, submit right away (throttle to 0 when the interdict happens) and then just boost a couple times with your engines at 4 (if you are never fighting, then you should ALWAYS be at Engines for, SYS at 2, weapons at 0) then hit J to jump back away. He shouldnt ever get through to your hull if you submit, boost and jump.

As someone else mentioned, you will get chain interdicted. If it annoys you too much, boost to 3km off of him, then start circling at 3-4km until the cops show up and kill him for you. Then Jump away and do your trading. With 4A or 5A thrusters your boost should be around 350 to 400, so not much chance of anything the AI is running catching you.

Hope that helps!

 

[Insomnia]

So yes, I looked at all these video's, and yes, you have given lots of good advice. But, in gameplay, I just can not do all these things at the same time. Apparently, my mind is not equipped to do all these things simultaneously. I just can mange my pips now and then during running away, so I can just do "slow down, submit, full throttle, boost, boost, boost and jump" oh, and now i forget pip...
So, my 55€ is totally wasted? I am just to bad to play?
Advice is good, but only if the advice is coherent with the abilities of the players and the abilities of his ship/material/goal in the game. I just want to trade/mine, do errands; that is what i like. That I have fight or run occasionally that is also OK. But Elite is fastly becoming very difficult for people like me:
The engineering stuff? too difficult, don't even know how to find an engineer, let alone the stuff
Landing on planets? I can not even land properly without a docking computer, tried to train that, but still suck at it, so landing planets is well out of the option

Umm... What DO you do in the game??
There are landing tutorials. I suggest repeating them over and over until you can land decently.

-----------

I sometimes wonder, not about people's abilities, but more about people's ideas of what a *game* is about. To have fun? Yup. But to just sit there, in an asteroid field, doing your chores to earn money to not have anything of significance really to spend it on, with no challenge whatsoever from pirates, is fun?

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

I sometimes wonder, not about people's abilities, but more about people's ideas of what a *game* is about. To have fun? Yup. But to just sit there, in an asteroid field, doing your chores to earn money to not have anything of significance really to spend it on, with no challenge whatsoever from pirates, is fun?

Everyone has a different idea of what fun is and sometimes it's also fantasy. I haven't tried mining yet but I doubt I would find it fun. I can see the fantasy in it though, you see yourself in that role as a miner, it's no longer a job, it's a fantasy if you are into role playing. I like getting into some combat but I'm not roleplaying as that so it isn't as fun as some other activities in the game.

 

[Otherwhere]

re: Mining and fun: There are people who love playing Solitaire or Minesweeper for hours on end. No reason why they wouldn't enjoy something like mining as a nice change from whatever else they might have going on in their life.

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

After having played for a significant amount of time since the latest patch (2.1.04) has been released, I think I agree that the NPCs are maybe a little too easy now. The other day, I spent an entire evening at hunting haulers in an anarchy system. From time to time, a deadly or elite FdL or Anaconda would spawn and wanting my cargo (I had none). I never loss my shields once, barely 2 rings, after taking them out. So, it seems they have been nerfed quite a bit.

OTOH, yesterday, I went to a low intensity CZ. I was trying to pick my side carefully and then stay at the edge of the fight. At some point, after a few fights, where as soon as I was engaging a ship, 2 or 3 would jump on me out of nowhere, I ran out of SCBs. Was then chased by 3 different medium to small ships, didn't check carefully. They quickly took out my shields and I did escape with 19% hull remaining and no canopy on my fully loaded Corvette. It happened very quickly. Even though I saw my shields were going down, I started cranking my FSD but their attack was way too quick. So, something is wrong about that. I think at that point I had killed 3 ships in maybe 10 minutes. There is something I don't get about CZs or something is wrong about the NPCs fighting in CZs...

 

[Toetag50]

Methinks there needs to be some further "tweaking" to NPC AI. I would classify myself as a "casual" player because, even though I LOVE the game and only play it on the Rift DK2 (Still waiting for my CV1), I only manage to play it occasionally due to life and family constraints. I mostly play in Solo or Group and used to enjoy being able to "beat up" on most NPCs in extraction sites or conflict zones. Only occasionally would i bite off more than I could chew and be forced to make a run for it to avoid needing to call my insurance agent.

Earlier today I loaded up the game after a fairly lengthy hiatus and decided to pop into a "Low Intensity" Conflict Zone. As I dropped out of supercruise i barely had time to survey my surroundings before getting absolutely demolished. I hadn't even picked a faction yet to enter the fray!! I've never before been attacked without choosing a side first. I wasn't wanted and have never sided with a faction in PowerPlay. Anyway, I was flying a Python with four shield boosters and my shields were wiped out within seconds. I managed to jump out with a mere 30% of my hull left in tact without firing a shot or even seeing who my attacker was.

I'm all for adding some "realism" or "intensity" to the game and It's not like I don't appreciate a challenge, but I found this encounter particularly distasteful. If I nearly lost my (decently equipped) ship in a "low intensity" zone in under 10 seconds, I guess I'm relegated to exploration and trade for the rest of my days?!? I used to enjoy some bounty hunting and combat to mix things up and hopefully this was an extreme case and not the new normal.

Anyway, just adding my 2 cents worth. Keep up the good work.

 

[Aris_]

Methink.......occasionally would i bite off more than I could chew and be forced to make a run for it to avoid needing to call my insurance agent.

Earlier today I loaded up the game after a fairly lengthy hiatus and decided to pop into a "Low Intensity" Conflict Zone. As I dropped out of supercruise i barely had time to survey my surroundings before getting absolutely demolished. I hadn't even picked a faction yet to enter the fray!! I've never before been attacked without choosing a side first. I wasn't wanted and have never sided with a faction in PowerPlay. Anyway, I was flying a Python with four shield boosters and my shields were wiped out within seconds. I managed to jump out with a mere 30% of my hull left in tact without firing a shot or even seeing who my attacker was.

I'm all for adding some "realism" or "intensity" to the game and It's not like I don't appreciate a challenge, but I found this encounter particularly distasteful. If I nearly lost my (decently equipped) ship in a "low intensity" zone in under 10 seconds, I guess I'm relegated to exploration and trade for the rest of my days?!? I used to enjoy some bounty hunting and combat to mix things up and hopefully this was an extreme case and not the new normal.

Anyway, just adding my 2 cents worth. Keep up the good work.

After having played for a s........ranking my FSD but their attack was way too quick. So, something is wrong about that. I think at that point I had killed 3 ships in maybe 10 minutes. There is something I don't get about CZs or something is wrong about the NPCs fighting in CZs...

Both of you exhibit the same characteristics of people that they don't want to learn and that is a mistake of Fdev that let the AI to be so stupid as to let numerous cmdr to reach elite battle level without learn how to fight.


CZ is more tactical period, you don't stay for any reason close to the center, ships above python with mod engines are not recommended they are fire sponges for CZ and don't have the speed to escape ( except Cutter but turns like a brick )

The low vs.. high intensity do not refer to number of enemies only to equipment and level ,enemies can spawn within a 6km radius in a CZ and start shooting, there are certain tactics to deal with CZ that you don't know so stay away.

After 2.1.04 Ai became borderline above 2.0 ,so to have problems is something wrong in your abilities to fight

 

[dAlexis]

Both of you exhibit the same characteristics of people that they don't want to learn and that is a mistake of Fdev that let the AI to be so stupid as to let numerous cmdr to reach elite battle level without learn how to fight.
[eaten by mice...]
After 2.1.04 Ai became borderline above 2.0 ,so to have problems is something wrong in your abilities to fight

O yes, I cannot fly, if the lagrest player controlled ship in game can be oneshoted to 17% of hull! Happened with me today. 83% gone at once! (written: Eighty three percent). And my combat rate is not deadly or elite (only dangerous). Doctor, is it normal!??? Maybe you are cool, but other men do not enjoy autosadomazohism. Possibly I'll write 2 support about this 4 refund - such situation is NOT normal. If you enjoy playing shooters with cheaters, or mowing in a gas mask - it's your own business, but it seems to me, that after 1-2 years of this "AI" every ED player left in the game should be caught by psyhologists or doctors.
2 devs - is you were planning to convert game into dumb grinding, escaping from every intercept - you have done it perfectly! Lucky am I, that Cutter can fly away from everything without mass lock. However, FASes and Dropships are escaping from me in 2 km, no mind my masslock/ It's hisghly realistic cheat-in-law...

 

[manos70131]

After 2.1.04 Ai became borderline above 2.0 ,so to have problems is something wrong in your abilities to fight

There are some cases that it's ever dumber than pre 2.0. But there are still unplayable opponents showing up (at least to me). I came across an opponent that I was able to shoot down his shield and started crunching down his hull but eventually he managed to drop my shields and in one shot he disabled my thrusters. Then he quickly finished me like the sitting duck I was. I was in an A rated Asp Explorer and he was in a Viper MK III I think. Should not have been such an unplayable dogfight I think.

I don't see anything wrong in having capable AI. The problem with this game is that it changed without any apparent adjustment period did not have the necessary balance. It still has not reached a good balance even after 1 and a half month later. I'm confident that the balance will be reached. But will the damage to the game's reputation be ever fixed? We'll have to wait and see.

 

[777Driver]

O yes, I cannot fly, if the lagrest player controlled ship in game can be oneshoted to 17% of hull! Happened with me today. 83% gone at once! (written: Eighty three percent).

As usual no evidence of this happening..

 

[dAlexis]

As usual no evidence of this happening..

I am not recording flights - CPU&disk usage. It's a pity 4 me now, I think, that several thouzands views on YouTube were possible. No mind, how much is recorded on the server, but if it's possible 2 check - this is not lies. And there were 3 cops around - Xuanduna star system, approx. between 12-14 MSK, my profile is visible 4 devs. However, such crashing speed is normal after patch. Federal ships are crashing Anaconda much faster w\o 4th lather and with A5 distributor. FdL is crashing Anaconda ~20% in 1-2 shots. In latest case it was elite Anaconda. When I am flying on Anaconda - Federal ship cannot be slain. When Anaconda is against my larger ship - I see what I see. This "AI" is simple cheat-in-law, and there are too many witness 4 this, if you want 2 talk about witness! Please, relook the whole thread, if more witness is needed. I know, that AI need to do cheating, but this cheat level is 2 high indeed.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

I've recently found out entering a Conflict Zone when being Hostile to one of the Factions automatically marks them Red before Faction is chosen in the right Panel.
So here's my heavily modded FAS entering a High Intensity CZ - despite instantly Chaffing, tapping Afterburner and entering the CZ w/ 4/2/0 Pips - Shields gone after 5-7sec (Modded Plasma but mainly modded Railguns hitting with grim accuracy)

Quite interesting to start the fight with 90% Hull, gone Shields and some random Module damage

However : interesting - but doable, at least in this heavily armoured Battle Rig.

When it comes to the current V2.0.04 AI, these are the issues I basically still have with them :
- borderline or downright cheating super-agility (Inertia still not a thing to NPCs, thus acceleration or deceleration even of some heavy Ships far exceed anything I could do - let alone match or counter)
- Module Damage doesn't seem to affect NPCs the same way it affects the Player
- Interdictions : sometimes godlike-type precision of NPCs (often even rather cumbersome, large NPCs which should have merely a fraction of the agility of my own Ship)
- spawning locations sometimes "rather unlucky"... nothing beats fighting a local 1v1 in a CZ, only to have 3 powerful NPCs literally spawn within 1km and open up instanly. That's just nasty.

Now all those issues I adapted to, to the best of my abilities. Works, but just often leaves a foul taste...

 

[idahosurge]

How are people still talking about this? The AI is just a notch above 2.0 kabob status. Dying is still 100% optional even vs Elites when flying crappy builds.

If anyone is still dying, they are doing about 12 things wrong at the same time. You can get away with 11 simultaneous egregious errors, but the 12th one may be your downfall.

What is your combat rank? Please post a screenshot of your right UI.