UAs, Barnacles and other mysteries Thread 8 - The Canonn

[Vurt]

Are we sure the image is not upside down or back to front?

It's probably not back to front, as the image comes from an audio transmission. So the first things it "says" are the first things in the image, time-wise. .counterproductive be would that then communicate to trying actually it's if but backwards talking be could it theory In

On the other hand, I think it could be argued that the image is meant to be displayed top-down. Left-to-right is about as arbitrary as right-to-left if you don't have hands. And working with the audio software it's natural to display it that way because our monitors are wider than they are tall. But from the perspective of an non-human entity trying to communicate, then top-down might be a more natural way to go, ala how the Arecibo message is displayed.

 

[Ozric]

Like the mystery Diamondback Explorer scanning the Obsidian orbital I mentioned a little while back

Maybe, I don't believe we ever noticed the UAs "looking" for one type of ship more than another. I'm not sure how related they are to the whole UA/UP but the black DBX is almost certainly linked to Plain and Halsey's disappearances and then their replacements/re-wired versions put back. I think they're more related to Caine Massey personally.

 

[H3lios]

Out of curiosity, has anyone run the UP sound through a 3D spectrograph?

 

[IceFire122]

We know that the UA scans its surroundings. We know that the UP reacts to scans.

What if the UP was send out to find UAs?
In previous tests, us humans were always eager to scan the UP to trigger its broadcast.

Maybe, we should bring them together and get some distance. The UA might scan the UP and change its transmission. The UP might react to the scan by the UA in a new way (Probe has found its target).

 

[Raisa]

Tip off in Ceti Sector RD-T B3-2. Crashed Anaconda right at the summit of a huge mountain:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/GVNurkt.jpg

i think i have a tip off for This right now, and a diffrent one that seems to be a bit outside of the human bubble

 

[Aeos]

Out of curiosity, has anyone run the UP sound through a 3D spectrograph?

I did try to do this, however I couldn't get it to work with the one I was using. The only ones I saw were projects from other people. The one I did get working didn't have a way to look at it as a whole output and only showed a singular line for some reason, updating as the audio changed.

 

[Gauntlet]

It's probably not back to front, as the image comes from an audio transmission. So the first things it "says" are the first things in the image, time-wise.

Although we are plotting time from left to right, which is a purely arbitrary convention. There's no real reason why Paul or Peter wouldn't visualise time on a spectrogram to read right to left or even vertically.

Having said that I don't think that's the case here though

As an interesting aside, there is some psychology to consider when dealing with left to right / right to left.

Take the 2 pictures below, if you're naturally reading from left to right then the most striking feature is the Great wave rather than the cowering fishermen in the path of the wave, whereas in theory a Japanese person, more naturally reading right to left would see the people as the more striking imagery in the picture

When mirroring the picture us left to righties might actually experience the picture as it was psychologically intended, that is we should be empathising with plight of the fishermen about to be mullered by the Great Wave

 

[Vurt]

I 'd just like to point out that having been given an apple, I theorised that if I had another one I would have two apples. So I asked my wife for an apple. when she gave it to me I was able to conclusively show that my theory was dead-on. I now had two apples.
TL;DR : Never say never.....

You can often prove a mathematical theory in a number of ways (which is basically what your example boils down to), but there are lots of things in math that just don't exist in nature. A scientific theory can't be conclusively proven, because it's possible that at some point in the future the universe will be different. To use your analogy, had you asked your wife for an apple while you were holding the last apple in existence, then you would be kind of stuck. Your theory would still be true (because math) but it would remain unproven by nature.

 

[who?]

As a pedantic retired scientist, I would point out that you can never prove a theory is right! Truth has nothing to do with science, truth is for religion and philosophy. A good theory is just useful (because it answers all the current evidence and supports useful prediction) until it becomes evident from experiment that it is wrong. MB's comment means exactly what it says- that theory is testable, but that does not mean that it is correct

That, of course, has never been proven.

 

[Cynaqq]

(Being a bit pedantic here, but..) they don't really need to transcode the message through the latin alphabet. They could simply have a 2D graph with Morse co-ordinates. They might not even know if the Morse symbols represent letters or numbers! For the schematics to work they just need to be familiar with a cartesian-like coordinate system and know the relative sequencing of the Morse symbols. So first (or last) is .- then -... then -.-. etc.

And if they've ever seen even a small handful of messages which includes all the known morse symbols exactly once, and in the same order; they could make a reasonably safe guess that's our alphabet (or number system!) which provides the sequencing they need.

Am I misunderstanding something here?

That is only possible if they provide the squence of their morse. Without the sequence to construct the coordinate system, even if their coding is consistent, it's impossible to get the correct images.

As far as I know the UA didn't provide a guide to the sequence. We solved it only because the coordinate system was based on our alphabet.

I could be misremembering things though.

 

[Cosmo]

Yes. Forced the Anaconda to a crash landing, I suppose. Still checking the site.

EDIT: Found one of these caine-massey cargo racks...

http://i.imgur.com/k3bxZKe.jpg

Well that's something we haven't seen before. Good find.

 

[iFred]

Well that's something we haven't seen before. Good find.

Thats something we´ve very often seen before. Nothing new.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

If MB says something is testable then he probably wants us to test it.
Unfortunately it's still not quite clear what exactly we should test?

 

[Martin Afonso]

Thats something we´ve very often seen before. Nothing new.

Yes, very similar to the Izanami crash site and the permanent one in Pleiades JU-C B3-2, not so far away. By the way, took the UA to open space and still pointed to Merope...

 

[bladebss]

I think.... we are done. All there is left to find is free floating UPs and mabe a crashed alien ship. The pictogram is what it is much like the UA ship diagrams are what they are. We just have to w8 for the next update.

The UAs told is nothing realy, all the maths and science in the galaxy and we didnt find out any more info we found barnicles... grate cus they dont do anything but die and fix problems that UAs make for us. Now we have UPs and we have worked out what they do, they send us a sketch of... some thing... witch as the last 600pages of forum have shown could be literally anything! Its as painfull as hunting barnicles... witch buy the way i have no idea how people have the time and patience for. Exuse me walst i scour the surfice of every planet in this nebular... just on the off chance.
Sorry im just so frustrated i have been having loads of fun speculating but there just isnt enough to go on, i think after we found jaques so quickly they have fed us only half the sandwitch and they are holding off untill the CG is over on a month.

I will live in hope and i wish you all the luck in the galaxy.. you will need it!

I will spend the rest of the day in wolf 47 in my toold up conda just in case but i just cant spend another day flying round merope and the nebular searching for something i dont know im lookong for or even if its there to find.

 

[TiberiuS]

If MB says something is testable then he probably wants us to test it.
Unfortunately it's still not quite clear what exactly we should test?

That's what I'm thinking.

We should look around Merope for clues with that map / key message.

 

[Ozric]

I think.... we are done. All there is left to find is free floating UPs and mabe a crashed alien ship. The pictogram is what it is much like the UA ship diagrams are what they are. We just have to w8 for the next update.

The UAs told is nothing realy, all the maths and science in the galaxy and we didnt find out any more info we found barnicles... grate cus they dont do anything but die and fix problems that UAs make for us. Now we have UPs and we have worked out what they do, they send us a sketch of... some thing... witch as the last 600pages of forum have shown could be literally anything! Its as painfull as hunting barnicles... witch buy the way i have no idea how people have the time and patience for. Exuse me walst i scour the surfice of every planet in this nebular... just on the off chance.
Sorry im just so frustrated i have been having loads of fun speculating but there just isnt enough to go on, i think after we found jaques so quickly they have fed us only half the sandwitch and they are holding off untill the CG is over on a month.

I will live in hope and i wish you all the luck in the galaxy.. you will need it!

I will spend the rest of the day in wolf 47 in my toold up conda just in case but i just cant spend another day flying round merope and the nebular searching for something i dont know im lookong for or even if its there to find.

I just feel it worth pointing out how much this relates to Dr. Arcanonn:

"The others go with him as free companions, to help him on his way. You may tarry, or come back or turn aside in other paths, as chance allows. The further you go, the less easy it will be to withdraw; yet no oath or bond is laid on you to go further than you will. For you do not yet know the strength of your hearts, and you cannot forsee what each may meet upon the road."

 

[Han_Zen]

You say 'two apples'.

I say: The beginnings of a small strüdel.

Edit - to be a pedant, you didn't have a theory, you made a prediction.

Theories and proofs, on the other hand, are only tested by attempting to disprove them - and failing to do so. Which, I believe, is what Jorki was getting at.

...

Still: small strüdel.

Keep your small strüdel away from Mrs. Pact's apples.

 

[Layne Vakarian]

You can often prove a mathematical theory in a number of ways (which is basically what your example boils down to), but there are lots of things in math that just don't exist in nature. A scientific theory can't be conclusively proven, because it's possible that at some point in the future the universe will be different. To use your analogy, had you asked your wife for an apple while you were holding the last apple in existence, then you would be kind of stuck. Your theory would still be true (because math) but it would remain unproven by nature.

Okay. I'll bite
You 'prove' the assertion that theories can never be proved by providing an example theory that can 'never' be proved

You expect me to be surprised (or perhaps amazed) when you get garbage out, yet you are the one who put the garbage in.
I repeat: never say never. Sure some theories can perhaps never be proved. Perhaps that says more about the theories than it does about the lack of proof.
Ah, the heck with it. Nothing to see here folks, move along; bet the thread moved 20 pages while I was writing this...

 

[Gauntlet]

I just feel it worth pointing out how much this relates to Dr. Arcanonn:

"The others go with him as free companions, to help him on his way. You may tarry, or come back or turn aside in other paths, as chance allows. The further you go, the less easy it will be to withdraw; yet no oath or bond is laid on you to go further than you will. For you do not yet know the strength of your hearts, and you cannot forsee what each may meet upon the road."

Nicely put o7