No more that if you were called Gus with a perchant for Archery would you be called Asp-Arrow-Gus.........*Tumbleweed*
The Star Citizen Thread
- Thread starter Ril
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It's certainly fair to say those that live on the cutting edge should expect to get cut, but as others have said the best way to avoid the scenario you worry about is to provide a positive message about how to be a good backer. Here are some ideas I don't think have been mentioned yet:
- Demand a clear, concise vision upfront that tells you what you'll get. ED's vision only made sense if you knew the history, but did the job: "Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy."
- Demand really early deliverables. Chaos Reborn made an excellent start here, releasing a prototype game before the Kickstarter was even finished
- Stretch goals are fine, but don't let them set stretch goals for more than double their original goal. I haven't followed Double Fine Adventure that closely, but I believe this really hurt them
- Finally, Star Citizen may yet show the value of demanding transparency. If they show us their bug graph, I expect people will be far more understanding of the process (and more able to provide feedback)
Useful. And it's true that many of us backers are on a learning curve. But as far as selecting the right project goes, difficult to do much in the face of a project that changes on you in so many ways after you have backed it, and is also defended be a legion of misguided fans who sabotage all attempts at keeping the company honest.
Still there are many lessons I will apply when selecting future projects to back.
No more that if you were called Gus with a perchant for Archery would you be called Asp-Arrow-Gus.........*Tumbleweed*
I've just noticed you're '1st Generation Gamer' Tag. If it means what I think it means, I think I'll also incorporate it into my next (more serious) signature. Nice touch.
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This is my feeling also with this. I backed SC long time before ED - started backing at around the 8 million point over there.
Didnt even know about ED existing it was so low key
So at this point i have an almost fully working ED and yet another unsurprising annoucement from CR. I say unsurprising because ever since i backed SC the "fluff" and the "shiny" has been pushed out to folk more and more.
Every week on that wingmans hangar they would field questions from community asking if increasingly more complex and ridiculous things could be included in the game - the long haired dev would happily chirp "yep! we can do that" to most of those and im left thinking - hold on guys get the basics out there, or at the very least stop saying "yep" to all this stuff to prevent the further build up of expectation!
I know its pretty early in the dev cycle for them and that they are a new team trying to gel. However, is it beyond the imagination to ask them to stop with the promises and marketing for 6 months and just knuckle down to get the basics out the door at an appropriate time?
The people over at CIG need to write "Under-promise, over-deliver" in massive letters on every available bit of wall space.
It's inevitable that bugs will crop up in development. Repeatedly providing over-optimistic delivery dates is not inevitable. You'd have thought that the experienced guys and gals at CIG would be cautious in their estimations, especially having missed a couple of self-imposed deadlines already, once in very public fashion.
It does make you wander what kind of conversations lead them to provide such tight timings on the latest release. Is it an innocent mistake? In which case I'd be worried about their project management ability. Or is it a cynical ploy to keep the hype train running regardless of the risk of disappointment?
To their credit, the backers seem to be very understanding. In my humble opinion, often overly understanding.
I fear CIG still have a big problem with expectations. There are many posts on their forums along the lines of, "Hey guys take your time, great job. I don't mind waiting a few more days."
I'm thinking - it's going to be more than a few more days mate... Will they still be so patient if that becomes weeks and months?...
Good luck to them, but I'd have to say that to my casual gaze the pattern is worryingly like that of a project in crisis.
Having witnessed their extremely bombastic marketing I must confess to a certain amount of schadenfreude. I must say that Mr Brookes' tight-lipped, "it's ready when it's ready" approach increasingly looks like genius.
It's inevitable that bugs will crop up in development. Repeatedly providing over-optimistic delivery dates is not inevitable. You'd have thought that the experienced guys and gals at CIG would be cautious in their estimations, especially having missed a couple of self-imposed deadlines already, once in very public fashion.
It does make you wander what kind of conversations lead them to provide such tight timings on the latest release. Is it an innocent mistake? In which case I'd be worried about their project management ability. Or is it a cynical ploy to keep the hype train running regardless of the risk of disappointment?
To their credit, the backers seem to be very understanding. In my humble opinion, often overly understanding.
I fear CIG still have a big problem with expectations. There are many posts on their forums along the lines of, "Hey guys take your time, great job. I don't mind waiting a few more days."
I'm thinking - it's going to be more than a few more days mate... Will they still be so patient if that becomes weeks and months?...
Good luck to them, but I'd have to say that to my casual gaze the pattern is worryingly like that of a project in crisis.
Having witnessed their extremely bombastic marketing I must confess to a certain amount of schadenfreude. I must say that Mr Brookes' tight-lipped, "it's ready when it's ready" approach increasingly looks like genius.
Hehe. Playing the new "Pong" machine in the pub on a Sunday lunchtime with my dad when I was about 7 while trying to hold onto a lucky dip bag! All downhill from there!
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Hehe. Playing the new "Pong" machine in the pub on a Sunday with my dad when I was 7 while trying to hold onto a lucky dip bag! All downhill from there!
Looks like I'll be joining you with proudly displaying that tag.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2583685/#Comment_2583685
You don't have to believe that. But I do, considering that they're now feature locked for the release build.
That approach is much easier to take when you don't have hundreds of thousands of backers. Not saying that CIG couldn't have done it. But the more people clamouring for information, the harder that decision becomes.
I heard SC was going for the more cinematic approach to their game style. Unfortunately it looks like they also applied that to their project management as well by attempting at a dramatic cinematic cliffhanger ending with their release timing. Hoping to cut the correct wire with 2 seconds on the clock doesn't work in real life and relying on it being alright on the night doesn't help either.
I really hope they learn from this and really tighten up their project management so they can start hitting milestones while not dishing out over-optermistic info.
Its more annoying that there was no indication of issues in Wingmans Hanger shortly before the delay than the actual delay itself. Good project management would have had this flagged well in advance with the Go, No-Go done the week before.
I really hope they learn from this and really tighten up their project management so they can start hitting milestones while not dishing out over-optermistic info.
Its more annoying that there was no indication of issues in Wingmans Hanger shortly before the delay than the actual delay itself. Good project management would have had this flagged well in advance with the Go, No-Go done the week before.
Hehe. Playing the new "Pong" machine in the pub on a Sunday lunchtime with my dad when I was about 7 while trying to hold onto a lucky dip bag! All downhill from there!
Whatever happened to Pong?
{sorry couldn't resist}
Well, as the hook for last WMH they promised to reveal the mighty vanduul horde, but then inexplicably never did. I guess that was a clue - not to mention a strange definition of transparency. But that reminds me. Isn't it on tonight? Coming up very soon even? Is that right? I'm looking forwards to more of their 'fan fiction'.
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From what I gleaned from the various videos and fora, the vandal horde thing was meant to be an original and innovative single player experience. Until I have played it of course I can't be sure, but it's pretty much Incursion with lopsided ships
I do hope SC can get it fixed sooner rather than later.
I do hope SC can get it fixed sooner rather than later.
Who said that? Are you thinking about Squadron 42? Everything I've seen has just gone on to say that it's meant for testing the AI, and for a single player option.
Of course SC won't live up to expectations if you just inflate them in order to say "Look, they couldn't do it."
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It is a fair point... why haven't we seen a HD 3D reboot of pong on kickstarter yet?
one where your bat can get up and walk around the court....
Sure, more backers = more pressure. But however difficult it may be to be rather vague about timings with a large number of backers, in the long run it is probably less painful than being over-optimistic and losing credibility and support as a consequence.
Most SC backers seem to be very patient up till now - I reckon they could handle being told "We've got lots of issues to deal with - we can't give you a solid release date; but we'll get there and will keep you updated on progress in the meantime."
A change of strategy in comms is probably overdue.
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Ooh.. somebody is famous (or maybe infamous?)
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/133876/just-a-quote-from-somebody-over-at-ed
)https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/133876/just-a-quote-from-somebody-over-at-ed
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