UAs, Barnacles and other mysteries Thread 8 - The Canonn

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Finally a clean transcription for the PURRS!
Your interpretation is nice and I like it, but you do not take in any account the drawing, and it needs many steps.

Mine is a two steps solution:

Thanks to your transcription, Here is what I meant, writing the hi and low purrs like - and |, in groups of three:

-|- -|- ||- -|| --| |-| |-- ||- -|| --| --| -|- -|| -|- ||- |-- --| --| -

Apart from only one |-| that could be a bad transcript or a missing purr, they ALL are GLYPHS in the drawing, and each glyph representing a quadrant, assuming ||- being a negative value of the top right.

We now have a sequence of quadrants.

I'm on my phone, too hard to write.
THINK ABOUT IT
What about ||| and --- ?

As I stated earlier Merope 5C has massive images hidden on it's surface around the coordinates: -28.1990 -157.4042 0.136.
Images have been treated with the "key" from the news letter. There's so much out here!
#1: http://imgur.com/g22hTBk
#2: http://imgur.com/fK7zpjj
More treated images to follow. There's a message down here bois, lets either get crackin or try to get the probe to do it for us!

Is anyone listening?

I came here excitedly asking for help with the research. I don't believe for one second that I could solve this mystery myself. I just wanted to draw attention to something I thought could help the cause. I don't think it's a far stretch for a "probe" to be sent somewhere to scan a planets surface for clues. That's what we use probes for more or less. Glassing planets is a thing in Elite lore, perhaps they also etched a message on the surface. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me.

Everyone is approaching this from different angles (some code, some music, "take pictures of their ships shadows") who am I to say their approach is wrong when I myself don't even know the answer. I'm just saying that instead of making a laughing stock out of someone trying to help, perhaps we'd get further actually trying to exhaust their theory rather than dismissing it.

Lastly, Ive seen plenty of graphics glitches and these are too subtle imo. I still believe something is there although I won't be posting anymore pictures. I'm just suggesting that some one actually go to the coords I posted previously and look. Maybe take a screen shot and up the contrast. Pictures here don't show how apparent these things are. That's why most can't see anything. Sorry if I offended anyone that was not my intention.

Here's the thing. Science is hard. Convincing someone that you're right when they're initially skeptical is even harder. If you go way back when Jmanis was trying to convince everyone that there were morse letters in the UA sound you'll see that he was met with a lot of skepticism and even some outright hostility. He basically had to rub our faces in indisputable evidence, including making a prediction of how the UA would sound in a certain system before the majority would believe him. Sometimes that's what it takes. We all take the UA morsing as a given now but it took a lot of work. Sometimes you can't convince anyone and you have to keep doing the work yourself. And I totally understand if you'd rather have help than do it by yourself. It's discouraging. My suggestion is to keep looking and try to find something that even a bunch of hardcore cynics and skeptics like this group here can't ignore. Good luck.
 
Yeah I'm afraid I agree with this train of thought, CookieJarviz.

While I am happy you are working down that path and will maybe have some evidence to show for it, currently you have not. This means that currently the status quo has not accepted the 'decoder ring' idea as mainstream understanding.

Once you provide evidence for this then we will view it and see for ourselves. For now, however, it's just a theory like any other. Perfectly valid for posting but not inherently correct.

Dude. Frontier themselves has said that the UP's sound it made after being honked at is a key. They put that in bold. So I think anyone who does not think it's a key to unlocking/decoding something is smoking crack. Now what could it be the key to? Clearly, it has a dual-stream binary encoded message (chirps and purrs) and it has binary symbols around its diagram. Anyone who thinks that is not what it's a key to decoding is not thinking straight.
 
Has anyone thought that the quadrant in the top left might indicate an 'atmosphere' planet. So we'd be looking for a 5C clone, but with an atmosphere and we need to scan it to reveal two fixed POIs in orbit above the surface?

Quadrant explanation:
1. Arg Periapsis of Merope 5C - look for a planet that has the same angle
2. This plant has an atmosphere
3. Scan it
4. Look for two fixed POIs in orbit above the surface.
 
Dude. Frontier themselves has said that the UP's sound it made after being honked at is a key. They put that in bold. So I think anyone who does not think it's a key to unlocking/decoding something is smoking crack. Now what could it be the key to? Clearly, it has a dual-stream binary encoded message (chirps and purrs) and it has binary symbols around its diagram. Anyone who thinks that is not what it's a key to decoding is not thinking straight.

Actually, the newsletter where this comes from says:

No definitive answers have been found, but some are speculating this is a key of some sort.

The fact that the text is in green does suggest they might be pushing us towards that, but the statement is not really a given.
 
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Dude. Frontier themselves has said that the UP's sound it made after being honked at is a key. They put that in bold. So I think anyone who does not think it's a key to unlocking/decoding something is smoking crack. Now what could it be the key to? Clearly, it has a dual-stream binary encoded message (chirps and purrs) and it has binary symbols around its diagram. Anyone who thinks that is not what it's a key to decoding is not thinking straight.

And, in my opinion, anyone that tries to railroad everyone's time and resources into their own pet theory, at the expense of everything else, is also not thinking straight. Not to say that your theory is correct, or incorrect...but to be as closed minded as that is about as counter-productive as is humanly possible.
 
Assuming that we are dealing with an alien intelligence then the problem is understanding their mathematics to figure out any coordinates.

1. We can't assume that the probes/artifacts/barnacles divide a circle into 360 degrees.
2. We can't assume that they calculate numbers in decimal notation or even binary.

The first order of business in opening a dialog with an alien species would be establishing a common understanding of math ... the simplest thing would be to establish that we both understand binary mathematics and then to build from there. The fact that the alien artifacts communicated via Morse Code is indicative that they have already gained advanced knowledge of our species from SOME source. If they can communicate via Morse then we need to question why they've switched to this pictogram? Unless the Probes/Artifacts are totally different species that don't share knowledge with each other it doesn't quite make sense.

This mystery is supposed to be accessible to the majority of players. Putting all this effort into sound/music engineering and math to the level of detail we've seen has proven fruitless. I suggest people take a step back and look at it from a broader perspective. If it is A key it must be unlocked. It could be an encryption key, it could be a key that you turn to unlock something. I'm pretty sure it isn't a musical key but that's just my opinion.
 
This is super important with treating anything like a pointer, or a map. There's no reference on the image and because its a circle with a radial line you can scale and rotate (either your view of the image) to fit 99.9% of everything. To use anything for directional bearing you need both reference and scale. Sure the UP points to Merope 5c, but without a scale I can en-large the image and rotate it to point at everything in the galaxy. There's no evidence or intellectual reason to use the image as a map.

The 'answer' we are looking for is going to be extremely objective so anyone would get the same answer through the same process. Just like the ship graphs. The UA started out with morse names to get us used to listening to morse, then stepped it up later forcing us to apply a method. This image is probably very similar. A form of communication we need to understand to better grasp something that will happen soon.

Treating it like a map IS one possibility. Establishing zero, orientation and scale is necessary, as you say. Given that, can the image and the information we have be used to that end? How about this:

1) All UP's point to Merope 5c. 1 piece of information. Doing our own surveying, we know all kinds of statistics about it.

2) The longitude lines (there are no latitude lines, just a second set of longitude lines 90 degrees apart) do not converge inside the circle. I interpret this to mean that what we are looking for is on the surface, not in orbit our outside of this sphere. IE: the circle is focusing at a portion of the sphere, not all of it.

3) Bottom right quadrant: a line. Many interpret as a direction or a radius. For this theory, I'm going to say it establishes a ZERO angle to use to make angle measurements. It also points to the correct quadrant once we establish correct orientation.

4) A quarter arc, outside of the circle (outside of the portion of the sphere in focus). The way the longitude lines are drawing, there are actually 2 axes. The question becomes, how to align them? There's nothing in space (that I've seen while trying to line them up) that are obvious and 90 degrees apart. Therefore, I choose to interpret this arc as a point that transcribes an arc as the celestial rotates about it's spin axis. That gives us alignment to something very obvious on Merope 5c.

5) However, there are still two possibilities: You can look "down" the spin axis, or you can look "up" the spin axis. We still don't know what side of the planet to plop our map onto. So we have the two concentric quarter arcs in the top right. Merope 5c is tidally locked to Merope 5 in a concentric orbit. Merope 5 also has rings, which resemble the arcs. Double meaning, or just coincidence? Don't care, both work. Now the axis of rotation for the planet is inclined. On one side, you're in the dark... IE: Merope 5 is below the horizon. On the other side, Merope 5 is above the horizon. Choosing the side with Merope 5 above the horizon, and orientating yourself so it's 45 degrees in your top right quadrant gives you a location to plop your map onto the surface, and the map orientation.

6) in 3, I stated that the line is not a radius, simply a "ZERO" mark to start measuring from. In the bottom left quadrant, we have 2 lines intersecting the circumference of the "focus" circle. They also extend outside the circle, where the planet's circumference is also found. But the question becomes, do we measure angles? Or do we measure arc length?

7) Get a CAD or drawing software and create a circle/ellipse (doesn't matter which, depends on how the image is stretched or not) and superimpose it over the focus circle. Make it fit as best you can. Then draw vertical and horizontal lines across the center lines of the grid. Observe where your "best fit" circle/ellipse center is. NOT coincident with the grid. Then try the following: Draw a line from the grid center to the outside tip for both lines in the bottom left quadrant. Do the same again from the center of the circle you placed, to the outside tips of the lines in the bottom right quadrant. You will notice that the lines from the focus circle center to the tips "FIT" much better. What does this mean? It means that they don't share a common center, so measuring angles in not correct. That leaves Arc Lengths. Which is perfect, because it doesn't matter what size you print it at, or how you scale your image, it still works.

8) print out the clue, or use CAD software like I did. Cut a string and wrap it around the focus circle. The end of the string coincides with the line in the bottom right quadrant. With a marker, mark where the two lines in the bottom left quadrant intersect your string. Now measure both lengths.

Do math:

First intersection divided by total string length = 0.095 of the total circumference.
Second intersection divided by total string length = 0.134 of the total circumference.

Now, ratio's don't really help us. However, the line segments point to the outside of the focus circle, where the spherical circumference is found AND the probe points to Merope 5c.

Merope 5c diameter is 1478 Km. Math therefore says Merope 5c Circumference is 4643 Km.

0.095 of 4643 = 441 km
0.135 of 4643 = 622 km.


Merope 5c radius is 1478 Km. Math therefore says Merope 5c Circumference is 9286 Km.

0.095 of 9286 = 882 km
0.135 of 9286 = 1254 km.

So, to summarize:

Location: Merope 5c, clue centered on spin axis, where the Merope 5 star can be seen above the horizon. Align the clue such that Merope 5 is in the top right quadrant (45 degrees is the only even way to place it in that quadrant). The line in the bottom right quadrant tells us what quadrant to search in AND gives us our zero to measure from. So we're looking down and right. Or right and down. We don't know which convention they use, so we have 2 possibilities. That seems like a reasonable solution.

I did all this just to prove you wrong. I can't take it any further until I get in the game and get a bearing from the pole with Merope 5 positioned correctly. I will do the science myself to take it further. Not asking anyone to go forth and do my bidding.

However, I'm not stuck on this BEING the solution. My entire point is, it COULD be a solution. Outright dismissing a possibility is naive. The clue could very well be a map.
 
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Ad. Freefloaters... Building on the Hypothesis that...

a. UPs might be found within the shell (reasons given) and

b. that UA and UP cannot travel at hyperspeed (at least noone seemed to have encountered any of them charging their friendship-drive yet)

=> the following test may be worth a shot:

Move to Merope 5C and align with a system thats within the shell (or even better in the shell directly and visible). Dont jump, but go in that direction in supercruise below 100c as far as you can (at least 15-30 mins) and check for USS. They might be really far out and ofc very rare.

If already done just skip it, but if not this theory could be ruled out pretty quickly. would have checked myself but 8kly out and on RL holidays.
 
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Dude. Frontier themselves has said that the UP's sound it made after being honked at is a key. They put that in bold. So I think anyone who does not think it's a key to unlocking/decoding something is smoking crack. Now what could it be the key to? Clearly, it has a dual-stream binary encoded message (chirps and purrs) and it has binary symbols around its diagram. Anyone who thinks that is not what it's a key to decoding is not thinking straight.

I'll highlight the important bit;

''No definitive answers have been found, but some are speculating this is a key of some sort''


So yes, Frontier have leaned into the 'Key' idea. But two thirds of the sentence state ''no definitive answers'' and ''speculating''.

If you want me to think it's a decoder then show me evidence of it having decoded something. Until then it is logical to not jump to that conclusion.
 
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Arguendo

Volunteer Moderator
--l -ll --l --l --l l-l --l l-l l-- l-l l-l -l- l-- ll- -l- -ll --l l-- l-l --l l-l --l 1 3 1 1 1 5 1 5 4 5 5 2 4 6 2 3 1 4 5 1 5 1

Contrary to the "picture" in the audio, there is also |-| and ||-, which are not present in it.
Also, there are no --- nor ||| which is a feature similar to the first UA transmissions IIRC.
I know you and RiZ@L are both looking at this with the theory of decoding the "quadrant symbols" by grouping in threes. Again though, where do you start your grouping? There is no obvious starting point between the purrs, so the result has atleast three different "solutions." Shift your symbols one right, and then another right, and those options are just as valid as the starting point you have chosen. Remember I said, in my decoding, that it sounds like there is atleast one LOW howl before the sequence I copied, which means this isn't the beginning of the sounds made by the UP. It is only the beginning of the part of the recording that is good enough for us to decipher.
Until we can identify a specific starting point for any sequence in the sounds, trying to group them is arbitrary at best.

How can I think when we already had someone decode something off of the UP?
You and "your puzzle guys" believe you have encoded something off of the UP. Since you have only been able to decode one symbol, that indicates that your decoding is not universal. If it was, decoding one would decode all. That to me points to luck and/or a forced result, not a scientific approach.
You also aren't willing to share your solution to that one symbol decoding with the rest of the community, which shows a very uncertain result in my book. That means that either a)the result is so ambigous it is easily debunked by neutral observers, or b) you want the "glory of discovery" all to yourselves. Either of the options sound very un-Canonn to me. Strange considering your signature :(
 
Easy. You haven't. You haven't been able to back up what you said with proof, and no one believes you.

Indeed.

I've been able to decode lots of things off the diagram. I haven't said till now, though, because I wanted to be sure.

For example, I can use it to predict tomorrow's sunrise, when I'm going to die, when my male cat will next bring a dead bird in, what species it will be and whether it'll still have both its wings. I won't even get on to the more supernatural things I've been able to do with it - but it's pretty dark stuff I can tell you.


Guffaw.
 
I know you and RiZ@L are both looking at this with the theory of decoding the "quadrant symbols" by grouping in threes. Again though, where do you start your grouping? There is no obvious starting point between the purrs, so the result has atleast three different "solutions." Shift your symbols one right, and then another right, and those options are just as valid as the starting point you have chosen. Remember I said, in my decoding, that it sounds like there is atleast one LOW howl before the sequence I copied, which means this isn't the beginning of the sounds made by the UP. It is only the beginning of the part of the recording that is good enough for us to decipher.
Until we can identify a specific starting point for any sequence in the sounds, trying to group them is arbitrary at best.


You and "your puzzle guys" believe you have encoded something off of the UP. Since you have only been able to decode one symbol, that indicates that your decoding is not universal. If it was, decoding one would decode all. That to me points to luck and/or a forced result, not a scientific approach.
You also aren't willing to share your solution to that one symbol decoding with the rest of the community, which shows a very uncertain result in my book. That means that either a)the result is so ambigous it is easily debunked by neutral observers, or b) you want the "glory of discovery" all to yourselves. Either of the options sound very un-Canonn to me. Strange considering your signature :(


If you drop the Probe in space, record for 1 minute, scoop it up, drop it again, record for another minute, can you discover if the UP starts from a specific point? That would be a good testable way to find the "start" of the recording?
 
Treating it like a map IS one possibility. Establishing zero, orientation and scale is necessary, as you say. Given that, can the image and the information we have be used to that end? How about this:

I did all this just to prove you wrong. I can't take it any further until I get in the game and get a bearing from the pole with Merope 5 positioned correctly. I will do the science myself to take it further. Not asking anyone to go forth and do my bidding.

However, I'm not stuck on this BEING the solution. My entire point is, it COULD be a solution. Outright dismissing a possibility is naive. The clue could very well be a map.

But you're proving my point. Because there isn't a scale we can use math, maps, pictures, and other ideas to force logic till some kind of answer shows up. Instead of treating it as a map, we should be deciphering something that concludes its a map. We are still working off of theory instead of something concrete.

Remember back to logic class. You can't use an assumption to prove an assumption. That doesn't work. If you assume its a map and start logic around that assumption, yes you will come back to its a map. because you based all your logic on the original assumption. The answer will still be wrong. Until there is a reference AND a scale, treating it as a map is useless, and a waste of time. It could be a map, or a vector, but we can't work with it! Find the scale first. All we have right now are various shapes associated with quadrants of a circle and a possible binary number. Focus on those.
 
I came here excitedly asking for help with the research. I don't believe for one second that I could solve this mystery myself. I just wanted to draw attention to something I thought could help the cause. I don't think it's a far stretch for a "probe" to be sent somewhere to scan a planets surface for clues. That's what we use probes for more or less. Glassing planets is a thing in Elite lore, perhaps they also etched a message on the surface. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me.

Everyone is approaching this from different angles (some code, some music, "take pictures of their ships shadows") who am I to say their approach is wrong when I myself don't even know the answer. I'm just saying that instead of making a laughing stock out of someone trying to help, perhaps we'd get further actually trying to exhaust their theory rather than dismissing it.

Lastly, Ive seen plenty of graphics glitches and these are too subtle imo. I still believe something is there although I won't be posting anymore pictures. I'm just suggesting that some one actually go to the coords I posted previously and look. Maybe take a screen shot and up the contrast. Pictures here don't show how apparent these things are. That's why most can't see anything. Sorry if I offended anyone that was not my intention.

It's all good, I'm glad for everyone that's attempted to help. However, some theories are more difficult to exhaust either because it's not testable or because there are blaring holes in the logic...its nothing personal to anyone. Regardless of the community, if you have an idea go test it. Get in an SRV and go look around those areas, or do a fly over with your ship searching for POIs. If there's nothing to report, then that's your answer. If you find something that pushes us further, then post it here. This doesn't go for everyone, but there is a toxic trend here of "what if we try this" rather than "I tried this and here are my results". The latter is by far more productive.
 
I've genuinely given up on trying to interpret this diagram as anything specifically related to a location for now.

For similar-ish reasons to Domm earlier, but not because we don't have a good enough 'version' of it.

I don't think we need a better version of it; but I also don't think the angles are important either - it looks like a trigonometric puzzle, but it's not IMHO - it's a logic puzzle and when the correct interpretation comes along, it'll be obvious. In terms of measurements, although I was right there with the on-screen protractors - it just doesn't seem right. And even if you can come up with some angles (bearing in mind someone else will come up with different angles too!) there's no satisfying way to interpret them that isn't the equivalent of looking at Varatian Tea Leaves and thinking you're going to win the lottery.

That doesn't mean, however, that I don't think there's something we're missing - some other part which helps - I think that's incredibly likely.

For me, now, while I will still continue to stare at the image every day for a little while, I'm more interested in where the things are found 'in the wild' - where the Feds are getting them from. I think there could be something about that location that could prove interesting indeed. Not only that, but it would also give us more Probes to, uh, probe.
 
But you're proving my point. Because there isn't a scale we can use math, maps, pictures, and other ideas to force logic till some kind of answer shows up. Instead of treating it as a map, we should be deciphering something that concludes its a map. We are still working off of theory instead of something concrete.

Remember back to logic class. You can't use an assumption to prove an assumption. That doesn't work. If you assume its a map and start logic around that assumption, yes you will come back to its a map. because you based all your logic on the original assumption. The answer will still be wrong. Until there is a reference AND a scale, treating it as a map is useless, and a waste of time. It could be a map, or a vector, but we can't work with it! Find the scale first. All we have right now are various shapes associated with quadrants of a circle and a possible binary number. Focus on those.

There are limits to what you can communicate when neither side shares a language. If I want to point to a specific place and I don't know where my recipient will be (or when) when he receives it, I'm very limited in my ability to communicate "this is a map". The information has to be extremely simplified (to avoid confusion) so they can GET to where I want them to go. Anything extra and the chances increase that they won't understand.

In that case, my best hope is to draw a map, and hope one of their interpretations begins with the assumption that "this is a map".
 

Arguendo

Volunteer Moderator
If you drop the Probe in space, record for 1 minute, scoop it up, drop it again, record for another minute, can you discover if the UP starts from a specific point? That would be a good testable way to find the "start" of the recording?
No. The only way I see of finding the starting point would be to find a Free Floater and record that for a very extensive period. Only then can we see a true pattern in the sounds. If we can see a repeat of more than two cycles, then we can be relatively certain it is not by chance and we will have our complete sounds pattern. Until then, we are all guessing what the starting point is, if there is one at all.
 
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