UAs, Barnacles and other mysteries Thread 8 - The Canonn
- Thread starter Yaffle
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Even if it IS non-repeating, and gives its data in a random order, as long as you get the whole transmission, you end up with the same thing...for example
ABCDEFG
CGAEFBD
Totally different order, but the same transmission length, giving the same information...as long as each packet of data can be read independently it doesn't matter which order it arrives in.
As long as we get a full 6 minute transmission, you'll have all necessary data, the order is irrelevant.
ABCDEFG
CGAEFBD
Totally different order, but the same transmission length, giving the same information...as long as each packet of data can be read independently it doesn't matter which order it arrives in.
As long as we get a full 6 minute transmission, you'll have all necessary data, the order is irrelevant.
I'm on the ground on 5c right now, so I can look when I get home from work if no one gets there before me.
Wrong. there does not have to be a pattern. to be a puzzle. A puzzle does not need a pattern. transposition cipher is one of those puzzles. which I think thats what it is.
Unless of course it does not repeat the same message on loop but transmits something contextual or sends one of several pretermined messages at random, or even if there is a larger overarching meaning only described by examining all the patterns/transmissions
Arguendo
Volunteer Moderator
Yes, but right now we don't have words. We have numbers, 0 and 1 that we are forcing into groups of threes completely arbitrarily, and hoping it comes out with a solution that fits our theories. And even the end point at 6 minutes is based on a vague patch note that says "just over 6 minutes."
It is a very good theory, but it is not very solid at the moment.
Happy Time!
I rarely get to play, far too much going on in my life. However, I just found out my wife is leaving for 2 days with my son to go to his college and register for classes, so maybe I can do something to contribute to this endeavor over the next couple days![up]
I rarely get to play, far too much going on in my life. However, I just found out my wife is leaving for 2 days with my son to go to his college and register for classes, so maybe I can do something to contribute to this endeavor over the next couple days![up]
The only indication of what the 0s and 1s mean is the image - which clearly gives us the 'words' around the edge.
But keep up the skepticism. We haven't proven this yet, it's just the most compelling idea we've had that is very testable.
That theory is not the solution.
The image in the UP's sound spectrum is the same no matter where the recording is made (so far).
Thus the theory is only a forced attempt of wanting Merope to be part of the solution.
It is purely a poor attempt to fit the UP idle sounds to the image in the sound spectrum.
It is not plausible since other systems can fit to the description used with x number stars, ringed worlds etc.
Take a good advice - stop forcing Merope in to the solution.
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That would imply that you know the start and end of each sequence. We don't know this.
Example:
We use 3 repeats of the same sequence:
ABCDEFGABCDEFGABCDEFG
All I know is that the sequence x minutes long (in our case 7 characters). I can start at any character and get the complete message.
ABCDEFGABCDEFGABCDEFG
____^
Message: EFGABCD
Now I use again 3 repeats, but I scramble each time:
ABCDEFGFBACGEDGFEDCBA
____^
Message: EFGFBAC
No I have 2 times F and D is missing.
It would only works correct if you listen to all repetitions of the message. If you want an arbitrary starting point the message _needs_ to repeat the same sequence.
And additionally, as was already mentioned above, you need each and every purr. If you miss one purr, the whole message of triplets gets shifted and results in a different message.
Depends on what you mean by repetition. It certainly needs at least something that indicated message start or end to know when you've listened to the whole message.
Say the message is:
[ 7 2 4 4 2 7 1 1 9 1 3]
then the next message could be
[1 2 4 2 1 3 7 9 1 4 7]
If it worked like this you would need something like:
[BEGIN] [1 2 4 2 1 3 7 9 1 4 7] [END]
The begin and end signals could be the same as they would just indicate a break.
The questions I have are:
1) Does the message length change based on the number of bodies in a system, or does it last a full 6 minutes even if there's only one body in the system?
2) If the stellar bodies purrs sequence can happen multiple times before a UP decays is the sequence in that instance in the same order each time?
It seems that from one jettison of the UP to another the order of the sequence changes, so it's not clear that it doesn't change during one jettison and scoop. Arguendo, you're right that if there's no repeat AND no end/begin/break indicator that happens during the 6 minutes 40 seconds the UP can survive then you can pick and choose to fit the system map. Long story short we need more examples of these purr sequences along with system map data.
Thanks. I should mention that the POI persisted over two restarts, as my first attempt to search ended In my srv falling through the planet. Had to jump back in my ship and fly up to see that the POI had been reset below.
I'm starting to agree that there has to be a beginning and end marker to the message for DP's theory to be possible.
Case in point:
System has 1 star, nothing else.
System has 2 stars, nothing else.
System has many many stars, planets, asteroids, moons, etc... I've personally honked systems with 90+ bodies in it. I've read of others finding systems with 120+ bodies.
Questions:
1) How to differentiate between a system with 1 star or 2 stars or n stars (with nothing else) when your signal just repeats without a beginning or end marker?
2) Is 6 minutes long enough to transmit the complete system information for a system with 90+ bodies in it?
Case in point:
System has 1 star, nothing else.
System has 2 stars, nothing else.
System has many many stars, planets, asteroids, moons, etc... I've personally honked systems with 90+ bodies in it. I've read of others finding systems with 120+ bodies.
Questions:
1) How to differentiate between a system with 1 star or 2 stars or n stars (with nothing else) when your signal just repeats without a beginning or end marker?
2) Is 6 minutes long enough to transmit the complete system information for a system with 90+ bodies in it?
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Arguendo
Volunteer Moderator
Yes, but let's take your latter sequence: CGAEFBD
Now, let's say that this is based on a 6 minute sequence of Purrs, because right now there is an assumption that the pattern is 6 minutes long. We can record more than 6 minutes, that's proven, and we will get Purrs for more than 6 minutes and therefore letters before and/or after that sequence. If we shift to the next letter over (right) to make a "new 6 minute segment" the next letter has to be a C for the sequence to still be correct. If it is not, then it is not valid anymore. Same with High/Lows like we have denoted with - and l. Here's a random sequence, let's pretend it's 6 minutes long.
- - l - l l - - l - l l - - l l - - l l - l - - l l - l
Now, if that is the sequence we are using and we are saying that it should always be 6 minutes long, then if we have High/Lows before or after this sequence we should be able to shift it left or right and the message would be the same. For that to be possible with this sequence, the symbol before the sequence needs to be a l and the symbol after the sequence needs to be a -. If it is not, you will have on less of one, and one more of the other, and your solution does not work anymore. Because of this, it needs to be repeating over and over again. There is no way to get the same solution, unless the number of - and l are the same at all times, and that only happens if it repeats exactly. And you cannot shift it by "3 bits" because your initial selection for the start of the 3-bits was completely arbitrary. Chosen at random.
The other solution is to find some way to decide what the starting and end point is, and we don't have anything resembling this.
Yes we know. A decoder ring. PROVE IT!
See above. If it never repeats itself, then we need a start and end point. If not it's meaningless because it's all arbitrary.
The total sequence is six minutes long...Working on the assumption that each transmission starts at a random point, and finishes at a random point, and plays through one cycle each time it is scanned...if you have the whole six minutes, you get all of the data. You're basing your assumptions on the probe repeating the transmission from several random points in a single life cycle, which I'm fairly sure it doesn't have time to do.
Well, from the perspective of the UP, it doesn't need to differentiate between systems as it has to be IN the system to scan it. So its location makes each scan different.
Can you send coordinates to expedite? I should be home in a few hours.
---Distraction Break---
UP: Wanna go chill on Merope ?
UA: Nah theres no real atmosphere.
The Unknown Artifact and and the Probe walk into a station.
The bar is full and everyone seems to be enjoying themself except that neutron under the table who had been drinking at no charge since it wasn just himself.
UA: One Meta-mojito please before i melt this place.
UP: Why don't you galvanize your shell to prevent corrosion?
UA: Because that would make me Zinc
(meanwhile the bartender says: What Will it be? A Tachyon walks into the bar)
The Dog Star stayed in silence, it was just to Sirius. So did the three moons in the corner, as they were down their last quarter.
Than a star with glasses comes in, but everyone just assumes its a movie star.
It was a busy day at the station, even a neutrino walked in the bar, and kept right on going..
The bartender checked his atomic clock but than thought that you can't really trust atoms, they make up everything so he kicked everyone out and closed up!
..
A good excercise in speculation(not that we appear to need any tbh): Jon has two apples. Jon cuts 1/3 of one apple and 1/2 of the other. Calculate the mass of the sun.
An furthermore, i divided sin by tan in my last speculation just cos.
And remember, there are two types of people, those that can solve puzzles by extrapolating from incomplete data .
--Break Over---
stop wasting time and threadspace like im doing and get back to solving this ^_^
o7
UP: Wanna go chill on Merope ?
UA: Nah theres no real atmosphere.
The Unknown Artifact and and the Probe walk into a station.
The bar is full and everyone seems to be enjoying themself except that neutron under the table who had been drinking at no charge since it wasn just himself.
UA: One Meta-mojito please before i melt this place.
UP: Why don't you galvanize your shell to prevent corrosion?
UA: Because that would make me Zinc
(meanwhile the bartender says: What Will it be? A Tachyon walks into the bar)
The Dog Star stayed in silence, it was just to Sirius. So did the three moons in the corner, as they were down their last quarter.
Than a star with glasses comes in, but everyone just assumes its a movie star.
It was a busy day at the station, even a neutrino walked in the bar, and kept right on going..
The bartender checked his atomic clock but than thought that you can't really trust atoms, they make up everything so he kicked everyone out and closed up!
..
A good excercise in speculation(not that we appear to need any tbh): Jon has two apples. Jon cuts 1/3 of one apple and 1/2 of the other. Calculate the mass of the sun.
An furthermore, i divided sin by tan in my last speculation just cos.
And remember, there are two types of people, those that can solve puzzles by extrapolating from incomplete data .
--Break Over---
stop wasting time and threadspace like im doing and get back to solving this ^_^
o7
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Yes, but this theory assumes this information is being SENT somewhere. Whoever or whatever receives it has to be able to know that:
System A has only 1 star. The same 3 bit sequence repeats itself forever.
System B has 2 stars. The same 3 bit sequence repeats itself forever.
OOPS, see how the two above are the same thing?
Example in english:
UP transmits: STAR, STAR, STAR, STAR, STAR, STAR, STAR (for 6 minutes or however long it goes on for) This is a 1 star system.
UP transmits: STAR, STAR, STAR, STAR, STAR, STAR, STAR (for 6 minutes or however long it goes on for) This is a 2 star system.
For the theory to work, it needs to be:
UP transmits: STAR, STOP, STAR, STOP, STAR, STOP, STAR, STOP. This is a 1 star system.
UP transmits: STAR, STAR, STOP, STAR, STAR, STOP, STAR, STAR, STOP. This is a 2 star system.
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