Elite has no respect for people's time.

[Hamakua]

if SC is better than ED i think even the hardcore FD lovers will simply lie about playing it.

of course we will get the inevitable proof posts of playtimes posted and the bickering,but people will always go for the better rather than play sub standard to prove a point and then lie about it

i wonder who knows who ronnie pickering is ..... lol

I've been following both since the very beginning. I kick myself for not being an ED alpha backer as I actually didn't hear about it until it was too late - I remember in the late 90's and early 2000's during the "old" internet and really "pre-google" finding those 2-3 message boards that had a source from a source about FD and Braben working on Elite 4 - maybe. It didn't change for years. Then one day AFTER hearing about SC I learned about ED.

Now - if SC ends up being "better" (subjective, there are no plans for galaxy scale, ~150 systems, which is big enough as it's the same Size give or take, of the X2/X3 Egosoft series). I'll congratulate both.

The thing is ED is here and now and it gets better and better. I was cold to the Horizons Update but ironically the Engineer update made me really appreciate the Horizons update - I like landing planetside now - all on its own. the Engy update exposed me to that "exploration" hook.

They will be different games - One of ED's qualities is that it's here and now.

I have no idea what my playtime is, but it's in the 1000's of hours at this point.

 

[777Driver]

personally I feel once SC releases and it lives up to what they are showing us at the mo (and it will) then the only thing that will die on this forum is the user base.(plus SC is getting VR support-I do it already through gear vr)
only the hardcore/hard nosed stubborn peeps who refuse to look at another game or do there homework on the latest workings of it will remain loyal to this old school classic beast.

Well I hope SC does live up to what it promises, quite a few of my friends have sunk money into that game and are quite disappointed so far. I thought the ED Dangerous forum was bad until I popped into the SC forum.

My only gripe with SC is the flight model, if/when they sort it out I'll certainly hit the purchase button. NMS will be a great console game for me when I am living out of hotels due to work. Honestly can't see why any space fan would refuse to play one game over another unless they simply hated one of the products.

My original point was that a group of people want the more fast action arcade style of NMS, they bought ED because it was the closest thing they could get, eventually they end up getting frustrated and complain.

Each of the 3 space sims are very unique, choice is always a good thing.

 

[jasonbarron]

so his style is a mistake
he likes pew pew is very limiting

you like to fly around looking at the same thing going oohhh aaaahhh ooooh aaaaaah

maybe his style is his style and he might not think ooh aah is a good style

Not sure how you get this out of what I wrote. I engage in every activity in the game, except for Power Play. I didn't mean to disrespect pew pew, I've done plenty of it myself

 

[Artemis Zodiac]

Eh, no. I am really tired of all the previous broken promises at cons by CIG. Remember that whole Star Marine presentation? That supposedly live viewing of gameplay we'd get in just a few weeks? That was cancelled nine months later with no further ETA given? And the horrible FPS they now have in the PU? The FPS that would even make an indie-dev ashamed if he had released it 15 years ago? Thats even running on CryEngine, for crying out loud. I honestly dont give a flying focaccia about anything they say at conventions, as pretty much everything they promised earlier turned out to be very, very cynical lies. I'll see what they bring to my harddrive. And as long as that remains utter garbage they can peddle their dreams to someone else.

the lag you talk of is the netcode sleuty...in 2.7 its getting pushed out proper along with planetry landing ect....

I personally play crusader at 60fps,,,using the "offline" trick that cig don't mind us doing.......and star marine was used in the end to give us out fps mechanics in the ptu,with more on that in the next couple of patches...in my mind star marine is old news sleuty.

still I hope it ends up being great and I hope you end up playing it too....

 

[Deleted member 115407]

never a good thing to say on a forum,its usually followed by things only a psychic link can produce,and as theres no psychic link it will just be assumptions from whats going on in your head

a few examples of this are >

so what you are saying is
i think what you mean is
what hes saying is
you insinuate
you hint at
what you mean is

none of which are ever followed by what the poster actually meant,and are just to further the replies you make that dont actually mirror the posters remarks

Or maybe if the OP has something to say, he can make it direct and to the point, rather than obfuscating it behind a stream of ambiguous ten-dollar words.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Every time I hear this rather flimsy "Game x has no respect for my time" I just roll my eyes. Entertainment and games are highly subjective. If you don't like gameplay, don't play game or don't play particular part of the game. Raise issue with devs - as many has done. "Respect for people's time" feels like comparing gaming to work, and if you feel that way it's already should set alarm bells in your head. Despite being a bit torn on Engineers gameplay, I really don't feel forced to do them. I plan to do try them out, to get feel is there anything I want...but overall I am not fuzzing over having to collect anything for them.

So it is totally cool for OP to raise issues, but let's agree at least using less clickbaiting subject lines would help forums a great deal.

 

[Red Anders]

Infractions and myself go hand in hand.....it's true though red.....if I didn't have work commitments and kids I'd be canning ED all day too.....also I'm gonna pretend English isn't my first language....yeah that old chestnut.

I might be doing the same myself if I didn't have a job and was financially secure; in fact I have a week's leave booked next week and I'm fairly sure I'll be putting some hours into the game as well as watching the Olympics and sitting in my pants drinking beer. Sometimes I may even do all three at once.

Doesn't change the fact that having that kind of time isn't a requirement in order to get something out of the game, or to progress within it, especially since the benchmarks against which we measure 'progress' are likely to be ones of our own creation anyway.

 

[Guidebot]

When did I mention endgame content?

You quoted Jason, who said I'm after end game content, and your text was "I concur".

I'm not trying to sound smart, I'm simply being honest. This is how I am, how I write.

Please, engage me with substance; for what purpose does it serve to attack my character and style? We're here talking with passion about the game that unites us. If you want to base this discussion around me, my life or my writing style, I will not indulge you. I brought that up only in passing to help further understanding, not allow personal attacks.

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Or maybe if the OP has something to say, he can make it direct and to the point, rather than obfuscating it behind a stream of ambiguous ten-dollar words.

I am so sorry you feel this way. My background has furnished my vocabulary as it has anyone else's. It pains me that you find words a barrier to engaging in something we both enjoy and have passion for.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

You quoted Jason, who said I'm after end game content, and your text was "I concur".

When did jasonbarron ever mention endgame content in his post?

I am so sorry you feel this way. My background has furnished my vocabulary as it has anyone else's. It pains me that you cannot overcome the barrier of words to engage in something we both enjoy and have passion for.

OK then, explain for me this statement that you made?

Sounds like you understand. Laying in bed is productive, to me, so long as I enjoy it enough. Sometimes, rarely, I like to do nothing else. Of course it helps if one has some good company... =)

EDIT: This isn't relevant really but I think it will help people understand. I was raised a scientist. I give no credence to notions I divine and find to hold no value. This has led me to adopt an idiosyncratic, yet robust, approach to life, though I often find I am at odds with the conventions and beliefs of others. Satan and his pillow mean nothing to me, but a good time is a good time - empirically this is all that matters.

So, you don't believe in god, you have personal peculiarities, those peculiarities are often at odds with the others around you, and you don't care if other people think your pass-time is a waste of time, and the historical facts back that up.

That statement literally means nothing.

I like to do stuff, too.

 

[Ian Skippy]

the lag you talk of is the netcode sleuty...in 2.7 its getting pushed out proper along with planetry landing ect....

I personally play crusader at 60fps,,,using the "offline" trick that cig don't mind us doing.......and star marine was used in the end to give us out fps mechanics in the ptu,with more on that in the next couple of patches...in my mind star marine is old news sleuty.

still I hope it ends up being great and I hope you end up playing it too....

Sorry, I didnt mean frames per second, I mean First person shooting. I dont care about the frames per second because performance is always horrible in alpha-stage. Optimization is what I expect to happen far in the future, when they're polishing things up for release. But having a crappy first person shooter experience when you license one of the best FPS engines is absurd. And everything is always 'more on that in later patches'. This 'more weapons/cover mechanics/etc' we're getting 'soon' was supposed to be on my harddrive over a year ago. Add to that that this is exactly the same modus operandi he used in his previous project, that failed spectacularly as well, and its fair to say he has run out of credibility.

Ofcourse I hope it'll be great and we'll all have a good time, but I doubt it.

 

[Ericlas]

Guidebot, the moment I read your post I knew what answers were going to follow.
I've seen it so often in so many threads.
Don't even try to defend your position, you won't convince even a single CMDR.

I know exactly how you feel.
I've played ED almost from the start through all its stages.
I have a living love-hate-relationship with it and quite often take a longer break.

It can get annoying to know you will spend an hour to just get from one point to another.
Some will say 'buys a space sim and does not like flying through space', but that's not quite it.
We had those discussion long ago when CMDRs were argueing for/against route-plotting...remember those?

I bet there are a LOT of people out there sharing your thoughts and feelings but are weighing them against the pro's that come with it.
Large distances to fly? Adding to the feeling of a large galaxy.
Grinding Ranks/Ships/Credits? Adding to the feeling of accomplishment.
etc.

For example: I took a trip to SagA* before the route-plotting arrived and loved it, the sheer feeling of loneliness and size of the galaxy.
Still, I hate to spend 1 hour just to go from yesterdays mining spot, to change my ship and get over to Merope to have a look at the barneys, or go bounty hunting or trading. Not to speak of going out there and once there realizing you forgot something essential and have to go back again. "Wasting 2 hours" of my precious spare time even with the plotted route to make it much easier than before.

This is just one aspect of my experience but it describes my relationship with ED pretty well.
It even gets me to quit and pause playing for months.
Just to keep me coming back with new stuff to explore, new things to do and...yes...more time to waste.
After all, it's a game, it's just bits and bytes, rendered useless as soon as its servers go offline (may that never happen).
If you stop enjoying wasting your time...take a break.
Come back and eventually enjoy it again.
Rest assured, you are not the only one

So long take care and stay safe! RO, C!

 

[jasonbarron]

When did jasonbarron ever mention endgame content in his post?

Actually, I'm pretty sure that I did mention wanting endgame content in my post. I wasn't trying to pigeonhole the OP, I just thought he was framing his complaints in such a way that he wanted content delivered at a much quicker pace. He's stated that I got that wrong, and I'm fine with that. Though, I did go back and reread his post more thoroughly and actually came away kind of confused; it isn't clear what the OP wants--he hasn't really stated anything specifically that the game could do that would respect his time.

For the record, I feel like the game design reeks of respect for my time.

 

[Guidebot]

When did jasonbarron ever mention endgame content in his post?

I have taken a screenshot to show you how the post appears on my screen.

OK then, explain for me this statement that you made?

I meant only to illustrate that I can see productivity in places many do not, because I define what is and is not productive, to me. I have never tried to hide the subjectivity of my perspective. And you're right to argue that that will deprive it of a lot of meaning, to some, case in point; yourself. Luckily this small statement was, as I said at the time, not really relevant - it's merely background that might help some to understand where I'm coming from. If it has no value to you, then that's fine.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that I did mention wanting endgame content in my post. I wasn't trying to pigeonhole the OP, I just thought he was framing his complaints in such a way that he wanted content delivered at a much quicker pace. He's stated that I got that wrong, and I'm fine with that. Though, I did go back and reread his post more thoroughly and actually came away kind of confused; it isn't clear what the OP wants--he hasn't really stated anything specifically that the game could do that would respect his time.

For the record, I feel like the game design reeks of respect for my time.

Same, I asked him on page five but havent got a response yet.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

I can't think of any other pursuit that yields so little for the time you invest.

I'd like to play more Elite; the ships are amazing and they sound and feel great.

However, that's not enough. I just can't justify spending hours looking for random named materials for random engineers, or trying broken missions, or broken powerplay, or driving around on bleak planets.

There are two places I know I can go to have fun; RESs and Conflict Zones. Wait, three; nav beacons. Because I know what I'm signing up for; I arrive, I fight for as long as I like, I go. But I've been playing Elite for over a thousand hours now, and you know what? I'm bored of these.

Since I bought the game nearly two years ago, FD has added nothing that entertains me save a few extra ships. Everything else they've added, I've tried to enjoy, but the game is so mean spirited and makes it so damn hard to get any enjoyment out of. I have a lot of things to do in my "free time", and try as I might (and I try pretty         hard, people) I just can't justify spending the time on Elite when spending it any other way, any other way, is more enjoyable and productive.

Yes, I know. It's Elite Dangerous. It doesn't hold your hand or anything, it's a living Galaxy. But it has to offer enough enjoyment from time spent playing it to justify doing so, which, I'm sorry, I'm now aware that it simply does not.(this is subjective, of course, it simply does not for me - but my requirements are quite low compared to most gamers, and I'm lucky enough to have more time than many to spend playing).

FD are madly creating an amazing universe but they've forgotten that they need to make it something people want to spend time with. Scale and numbers mean nothing by themselves; you have to let people experience it in a way that they enjoy. You might argue that they're crafting the world's most amazing space sim, and that to expect a more "enjoyable" experience is at odds with the core of what Elite is.

And that's a fine argument. Unless you want to people to actually PLAY IT.

Elite is so damn disrespectful of people's time. So. Disrespectful. Doing anything takes so much time. SO much time spent "playing" is literally watching clocks count; distances, drives charging, fuel gauges charging, whatever. Elite always comes down to time, it's what the game asks of you, punishes you with, accidentally demands of you with it's archaic idiosyncrasies. And I can no longer justify this time because it is simply not enjoyable enough. I have other games that are just more rewarding to spend time with, not to mention other non-screen based pursuits.

Clearly I've had enough of Elite and need to take a very long break. But you know, I have no great hope that the game will ever become something that appeals to me, now that I understand why it is I feel I can't play it. I think it will never embrace the fact that people want to enjoy it, I think FD are locked on a crazy path and do not understand that their game is terribly neglecting the human element. Since I first bought it, they have spent so much time and effort on it yet added so, so very little that I actually enjoy.

And so it is with heavy heart that this Elite rated commander, who has spent so long playing this game, must condemn Elite, having realized it for what it is and knowing deep down that he can never justify the time to spend on something so cold, mean and boring when there are so much better things to do.

I'm sorry for the rant, please understand it comes from love.

Elite. You MUST learn to respect people's time. You. Must.

Elite has always been like this, so in that respect ED is no different. to be honest if you want a game that doesn't take up as much time, play NMS where most of the stuff you do is time compressed and is far easier / arcadey.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that I did mention wanting endgame content in my post. I wasn't trying to pigeonhole the OP, I just thought he was framing his complaints in such a way that he wanted content delivered at a much quicker pace. He's stated that I got that wrong, and I'm fine with that. Though, I did go back and reread his post more thoroughly and actually came away kind of confused; it isn't clear what the OP wants--he hasn't really stated anything specifically that the game could do that would respect his time.

For the record, I feel like the game design reeks of respect for my time.

OK, well I apologize to both you and the OP then for the misunderstanding. I was focusing on the middle and end of your post, and when I went back to read it I glossed over the opening statement for the latter things that I recalled.

OP, my one statement about concurrence still stands. Not in the "end game content" part, but in the part about sometimes games just don't deliver what we think they will deliver. We try and try to make them, either by playing or modifying them, but (in my own experience), that just winds up being a waste of time. And when you get to the point where the game can't deliver anywhere near your expectations, it's time to put it down for a while. I still feel for your disappointment.

 

[Guidebot]

But here's the thing: if you say playing ED is not productive enough because there is too much 'time wasting' going on between what you enjoy, how can you claim just laying in bed is productive? And what is the point of the this topic, to put it simply? I am getting more confused by every post. Could you give a simple, two-line statement that provides the gist of what message you're trying to get across?

Sorry for missing this post earlier sleutelbos.

I must admit, it is difficult to frame what I am after in so succinct a form. However, I shall try.

The problem:
"Too much of the basic game operations of ED are not inherently enjoyable. The richness of experience is too low too much of the time so it is hard to feel anything playing the game. I find my game experience is too often watching numbers or gauges ticking until I have to press the next button, which is too low to sustain my involvement."

 

[Greenmantle]

The problem is that you can't have a space sim without the problem of time (and distance). And that conflicts with the RL player who only has a few hours to spare and wants to spend them doing something worthwhile. The fact that the entire game is driven by numbers not only compounds this trouble, but makes everything (stations,planets,missions,star systems, the BGS) ultimately without individuality or personal involvement. Now, that may be the 'impersonal universe' at work - and I'm not especially complaining - but it doesn't satisfy the need of a time-limited player to be able to create or partake in a small-scale story (smaller than Community Goals, Jaques Station, or the Barnacles puzzle) and see it worked through...

 

[Guidebot]

OK, well I apologize to both you and the OP then for the misunderstanding. I was focusing on the middle and end of your post, and when I went back to read it I glossed over the opening statement for the latter things that I recalled.

OP, my one statement about concurrence still stands. Not in the "end game content" part, but in the part about sometimes games just don't deliver what we think they will deliver. We try and try to make them, either by playing or modifying them, but (in my own experience), that just winds up being a waste of time. And when you get to the point where the game can't deliver anywhere near your expectations, it's time to put it down for a while. I still feel for your disappointment.

Thanks Vindelanos. I totally agree with you, a big part of this issue is personal burn out, and I would be well served to put the game down for a bit. Things like appraoching a target in supercruise used to be engaging but now that I have perfected them, there is no more depth and they are but hollow mechical tasks. As I said, for me the small details of each ship, the sounds and handling, are a large part of the joy of this game. It's just that I've realized that I don't have enough to do with them that entertains me. I wish I could take the realization back, but that is not possible.

It means a lot that you feel for my disappointment. ED has been a lot to me over the last two years.

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Wisdom and well appreciated sentiment

Thanks Ericlas. Sounds as though we have a similar view on these things.

 

[Martind Forlon]

@OP take a break, have a good time outside and then return. After return try to find some nice players group to play with, share goals, show achievements, give and take hints etc. I can be mistaken, but it looks to me like you have a need for some goal (kind off) which will give you more depth and more fun from play.

Spoiler

For me it was the wing where I play now and ED background simulation