2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

Do you want ship and module transfer, if so how long should it take?

  • Yes, I want ship transfer.

    Votes: 1,869 71.1%
  • No, I don't want ship transfer.

    Votes: 90 3.4%
  • Yes, I want module transfer.

    Votes: 1,522 57.9%
  • No, I don't want module transfer.

    Votes: 137 5.2%
  • Transfer should be instant.

    Votes: 638 24.3%
  • Transfer should take a small fraction of the time it would take manually.

    Votes: 656 25.0%
  • Transfer should take a large fraction of the time it would take manually.

    Votes: 585 22.3%
  • Transfer should take at least as long as it would take manually.

    Votes: 696 26.5%

  • Total voters
    2,629
  • Poll closed .
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Big part of dilemmas like the one discussed here comes from the fact that the Elite's scientific background/lore has not been written very well. It's either vague, inconsistent, or often simply non-existent. If them devs took some time to establish set of well connected and explained rules, it would be much easier to suspend disbelief with instant teleportation to last docked station, instant 3d prints, instant replacement of A-fitted Corvette full of engineered modules in some remote station which barely has few of the most basic ships on stock, and so on.
 
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Yay for ship transfers, and modules too - but with caveats.

I’ve tried to peruse through this extensive thread - so sorry if I’m repeating something someone else has already suggested. I have seen something close in one post. It’s cool if you don’t agree, this is just my idea of the way I could see this working.


IMHO it should be something like this:

Ship and module deliveries are treated like missions. A player is able to make a request for a ship or module to be collected from x and delivered to y whilst docked in a space port; this doesn’t have to be the space port where either the ship or module is located or desired.

The ship must be capable of making the trip via standard means. The ship should be able to get remotely fitted out with a larger FSD drive, for instance, if needed (there is no reason I could see why a ship can’t be modified at a remote station in any case, you should be able to buy or sell modules wherever you have a ship docked - that’s probably a different thread). If the ship can’t make the whole trip, perhaps it should be offered to the player for it to be taken as close as possible to its final destination.

The mission should be offered at the station where the ship to be collected is based, and perhaps at surrounding stations also, to increase the chance of a mission being taken by a PC. After a finite amount of time, if no PC has taken the mission, and NPC will begin under the same rules.

These ship and module missions must be insured, and at the cost of the player who takes the mission on. This cost will be taken from their CR’s and held as a bond until delivery or failure occurs. If the mission is taken by an NPC, then of course it is still insured. If your precious ship gets destroyed, you get a replacement (as per the normal game) sent to the last docked station, without any cost to you.

The route taken should allow a narrow window of diversity from the mapped suggestion, however a certain amount of player choice should be allowed - in case of fuel scooping, escaping pursuers etc. The ship should be locked to only travel through this narrow corridor to prevent theft, similar to a permit system. If there is a method of theft, it should come with heavy bounties and police intervention - maybe even extending to further other player missions to locate the stolen item. However this bit works, the person taking the mission can't end up with a stolen ship for long - perhaps remote self destruct - to ensure this doesn't start a raft of naughty pirating ;-) perhaps the insurers would wish to pursue the thief for the cost of the ship in this case...

The mission should be timed, and also allow for the requesting player to add a bonus for swift, safe delivery. Once a mission falls outside of the time limit - again bounties and policing get involved.

Ships can only be flown by those of a certain level - for someone useless like me, perhaps I’m only allowed to deliver smaller cheaper ships. For those Elite’s, they are allowed to pilot this biggest kick ass things in the game. Ship worth and distance should combine towards the total reward required for delivery. The requesting players could be allowed to name a price, if they aren’t happy with the game suggested price (either higher or lower); insurance must be covered by the mission taker in advance whatever the case.

If it is a particularly long trip to deliver a ship, a player should be able to dock (but maybe even a limit on docked time), and perhaps an NPC or other player allowed to pick up the reins and continue the journey for part or all of the journey - payment is moderated accordingly.

Once at a destination, the mission player will likely find themselves without a ship - if that is the case, either they can become a passenger mission back for a fee, or get a sidewinder loan to return in.



I like this way of working as it fulfills the realism angle for me. It will take a real amount of time for a ship to be delivered. It can only go where it could have got anyway. You can order your ship to be delivered somewhere in advance, so you can get on with stuff while you’re waiting - even if that’s making your way to the same destination. It gives players the opportunity to pilot ships they may not otherwise have the opportunity to. It keeps the likelihood of attack and error in the game, counterbalanced by the skill level of the player taking the mission compared to the value of the ship. With NPC involvement also, all of the above can happen with or without a PC being involved - so the time it takes for a ship to be delivered will be varied, but never not actually happen. If you allow the mission to be advertised in the vicinity of the ship location, there would be a greater chance of a player picking up the mission before the NPC kicking in. This all does stop instant delivery of kick ass ships into places where they couldn’t normally get to so quickly. If you have billions of credits, you can buy a new ship instead of paying for and awaiting delivery…



I’m sure this is full of holes - but hey, I bet there’s plenty of you out there to fill them ;-) Again, this is just my idea.

Ducking and covering,

Cheers,

CMDR UnahaClosp
 
I was thinking a bit about the whole "ship transport" thing and I am almost sure that there is a strong over-reaction on the forum.

Ask yourself how many times you will actually use the ship transport and for what kinds of gameplay the transport can be usable.

Obviously, it is not usable for exploring. It is also not usable for trading, because you cannot transport Cutter full of cargo from A to B.
It can be partially usefull for transport of battle ships to some distant CG. But because those CG generally take one week, it really does not matter if ship is transported instantly or with 20 minutes delay. Also, if you need to pay couple of millions of credits for transporting the Corvette 400 LYs there and back again, the financial outcome of such action can easily be negative (maybe except Top 10 CMDRs).
It can be usefull for moving the fleet from one "home" to another. Again, how frequently are you moving your whole fleet somewhere ? Personally I did it only once and I am playing since 1.2.
The only really usefull purpose of ship transport will be Engineers. But again, if you spent days and weeks trying to get all materials etc. for upgrades, it really does not matter if whole fleet transport to Engineers will take 30 minutes or will be instant.

Overall, it really does not matter if there will be some delay or not.
 
The counter-argument to the much cited 'gameplay' reason is that Frontier would have to make this instant transfer very, very expensive to avoid massive exploitation of this feature.
This then will leave the use of it only to the super-rich players and give the majority of those players now yearning for instant transfer the raised middle finger.

I believe we tried to deal with that earlier in the thread (and Frontier have tried to deal with it in the mock-up screenshot as well ;) ) by making cost a function of ship cost, ship base range, distance to travel as well. If you use an exponential function, it could be very cheap for local transfer of small ships, but prohibitively expensive for larger ships or longer distances.
 
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I'm happy that ship transfers are happening and it makes no difference to me if it's instant. Let's face it, we can spend a lot of time waiting in-game for stuff to happen, we needn't wait longer than we have to. Paying a proportional fee for the transfer is a valid and necessary caveat - an additional delay would be an unnecessary duplication of consequence. Fair enough, this may be 'more immersive / realistic', so I'm not completely opposed to a delay as such; I just don't think it's absolutely necessary.

Why people see this transfer always as having to wait? Heck, you are already in a ship and can do whatever you want with it. Compared to now you even safe time (half the way to go , and free to do whatever you want while someone else delivers the other ship). To be coherent with the game there is no such thing as teleport. In star citizen you even have to walk to board your ship, if that isnt a waste of time. ;)
 
It will also mean that at any trade CG there will always be a full complement of RPK there before any haulers arrive... I am.sure the counter argument is to bring your defender ships and git gud... The hole there is you can't be hauler and gamekeeper at the same time.
So this will enable anyone who thought it would be fun to mess with a trade CG but couldn't handle jumping their fdl there to get their insta jollies.
 
I see this whole situation analogous to the "CMDR death" mechanism currently in place. On ship destruction, you are instantly brought back to the last starport you docked at (even if you're on the other side of the galaxy) minus a rebuy cost (or back in your original start point and Sidewinder but losing your ship) If you wanted realism from this perspective (FSD and hyperspace be damned), you would have to spend an ungodly amount of time drifting in your escape capsule waiting to play the game again, if your ship were destroyed. And maybe hope that somebody doesn't happen upon your capsule and blow it up.

Furthermore, lose your current ship and you all bounty vouchers, exploration data, and other datapoint packages - and yet you retain all materials and crafting loot and data on your person. Also, SRV destruction while you are in it means you respawn magically on your ship with your gathered materials intact and no thought as to how you got there again. Shouldn't looting materials also be destroyed if not safely aboard your ship? And anyway, how can one carry all those rocks (up to 1000 in fact) inside your Remlok suit?

My point? ;) I can see why "gameplay > realism" is used to make things less frustrating. I understand and accept that this ship transfer ability could work well but also raises questions. I hope something can be tweaked during the last few stages of testing and during the inevitable Beta.
 
Aight guys and gals, almost 100 pages of posts per 24 hour about the topic. Think it's time to consolidate our very solid worries about "insta-puff" deliveries towards Frontier. We need someone to do it properly and send one, clear message to Frontier...

...WE NEED MR. OBSIDIAN ANT'S HELP ON THIS ONE!!!!!!!!

As a long-time fan of the game, brilliant jurnalist almost of Elite's realm, obviously aware of every aspect of it, I can assume he shares the point of view of the majority here.

Is any one of you out there Commanders, reading this, having some kind of friendly ties with Obsidian Ant?? Can we ask him politely to focus on this topic in one of his next videos maybe???

His voice will be heard by Mr. Sandro and his team for sure...
 
Aight guys and gals, almost 100 pages of posts per 24 hour about the topic. Think it's time to consolidate our very solid worries about "insta-puff" deliveries towards Frontier. We need someone to do it properly and send one, clear message to Frontier...

...WE NEED MR. OBSIDIAN ANT'S HELP ON THIS ONE!!!!!!!!

As a long-time fan of the game, brilliant jurnalist almost of Elite's realm, obviously aware of every aspect of it, I can assume he shares the point of view of the majority here.

Is any one of you out there Commanders, reading this, having some kind of friendly ties with Obsidian Ant?? Can we ask him politely to focus on this topic in one of his next videos maybe???

His voice will be heard by Mr. Sandro and his team for sure...

I'll admit I tend to agree with his point of view most often. Might be the hypnotic tone of his voice though.
 
ok. i actually would like 1-4 to not be instant (specially 4), just for realism sake. however i don't think they spoil the concept of the galaxy being an enormous place in the way teleporting around ships over hunderds of ly does. repairing, refuelling and even dying are local activities and very frequent. i guess it's so for gameplay reasons, and i see really no consequences of note in the bigger picture. teleporting ships is another story.

So true. I would love it if on ship destruction we had the option to wait for some limited time whilst a new ship was sourced and kitted out OR take a cash settlement but only covering a certain percentage of the ship .... the caveat being we need missions to do whilst waiting where we are given a set ship (security missions or working for mining corp etc)
 
Aight guys and gals, almost 100 pages of posts per 24 hour about the topic. Think it's time to consolidate our very solid worries about "insta-puff" deliveries towards Frontier. We need someone to do it properly and send one, clear message to Frontier...

...WE NEED MR. OBSIDIAN ANT'S HELP ON THIS ONE!!!!!!!!

As a long-time fan of the game, brilliant jurnalist almost of Elite's realm, obviously aware of every aspect of it, I can assume he shares the point of view of the majority here.

Is any one of you out there Commanders, reading this, having some kind of friendly ties with Obsidian Ant?? Can we ask him politely to focus on this topic in one of his next videos maybe???

His voice will be heard by Mr. Sandro and his team for sure...
In his recent video he already adessed the forum and the concerns.
 
Question: When ships can be transferred instantly across the whole bubble instantly, why can't we let ourselves be shipped instantly across the whole bubble?
 
Furthermore, lose your current ship and you all bounty vouchers, exploration data, and other datapoint packages - and yet you retain all materials and crafting loot and data on your person. Also, SRV destruction while you are in it means you respawn magically on your ship with your gathered materials intact and no thought as to how you got there again. Shouldn't looting materials also be destroyed if not safely aboard your ship? And anyway, how can one carry all those rocks (up to 1000 in fact) inside your Remlok suit?

Indeed. Again this partially comes down to things being implemented inconsistently, and piecemeal across long periods of time. Fixes would be something like buying insurance for each of these items things separately (choice in what you save), having permanent commander reputation behind it (baked up with decent data analytics - to try to close off persistent 'insurance-scam' violators), and semi-invulnerable escape pods that you do need to travel in for some period (to close off loopholes explorers constant going into the black, then suiciding to get back to sell their data quickly etc.)
But all of those take lots of development time, resources, and testing, which is difficult now the game is live, with people getting used to convenience.
 
I believe we tried to deal with that earlier in the thread (and Frontier have tried to deal with it in the mock-up screenshot as well ;) ) by making cost a function of ship cost, ship base range, distance to travel as well. If you use an exponential function, it could be very cheap for local transfer of small ships, but prohibitively expensive for larger ships or longer distances.

I think you're missing the point.
If the transfer is rather cheap so that many can use it, it will lead to massive exploitation.
If it is made very expensive to avoid that, then the crowd of 'casuals' now arguing for it, will be left out in the rain.
I just like to see see the upcoming forum post from that crowd once the feature has bee implemented.
I guess most of them will be along the line: "I voted for but I (mostly) cant use it, how can you make it so expensive Frontier, that's plain unfair..."
I think there is no proper middle ground to be found in this.
 
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A huge no to instant transfer because it completely negates the in-game balance of combat ships having lower jump range if you can just buckyball somewhere in your 45ly engineered Asp then insta-summon your combat fleet. Ship transfer should take an amount of time comparable to if you were flying there yourself, maybe a bit quicker if you shell out for express delivery but not instant. And it would be a mistake to use money alone as the balancing factor given how easy it is to make credits these days once you can afford one of the bigger ships.

It's not as if there's nothing to do while waiting for one of your other ships.

Like a lot of others I've been struck this week by the combination of Braben stressing the scientific accuracy of Elite while in reality everything is getting ridiculously gamey with 3D printed fighters, Corvettes face-planting into Achenar 3 and taking only one ring of shield damage, and now ships teleporting clear across the bubble.
 
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I think you're missing the point.
If the transfer is rather cheap so that many can use it, it will lead to massive exploitation.
If it is made very expensive to avoid that, then the crowd of 'casuals' now arguing for it, will be left out in the rain.
I just like to see see the upcoming forum post from that crowd once the feature has bee implemented.
I guess most of them will be along the line: "I voted for but I (mostly) cant use it, how can you make it so expensive Frontier, that's plain unfair..."
I think there is no proper middle ground to be found in this.

You might be right. There may be no acceptable middle ground. I was suggesting a potential 'best-of-the-worst' compromise (that I'm sure Frontier have already thought about TBH), given that I can't, based on previous history and Sandro's statements this morning, see being pulled. So what can you do?
 

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
<snip for brevity>

and there we have the argument for 'what gameplay would the delay add'. Answer - loads.

What gameplay does 'instant' add? Answer (intended) those who want to partake in combat zones can do so 20 minutes faster. Actual - exploits on long range smuggling, end of anything but big range ships travelling the bubble, every CG 'policed' by PvP FDLs with no jump range.

In short - this decision is to help an edge case I don't recall ever being raised, whereas the modification suggested aligns with the DDF, adds gameplay, reduces the exploit potential and feels 'right' in the game logic.

Ho-hum. Another lump of game I ignore.
 
Aight guys and gals, almost 100 pages of posts per 24 hour about the topic. Think it's time to consolidate our very solid worries about "insta-puff" deliveries towards Frontier. We need someone to do it properly and send one, clear message to Frontier...

...WE NEED MR. OBSIDIAN ANT'S HELP ON THIS ONE!!!!!!!!

As a long-time fan of the game, brilliant jurnalist almost of Elite's realm, obviously aware of every aspect of it, I can assume he shares the point of view of the majority here.

Is any one of you out there Commanders, reading this, having some kind of friendly ties with Obsidian Ant?? Can we ask him politely to focus on this topic in one of his next videos maybe???

His voice will be heard by Mr. Sandro and his team for sure...

I was brought here thanks to his last video ;)
 
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