2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

Your inability to follow a logical argument does not reflect on my ability to ake the argument.

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Sorry for the caps but you're being deliberatly obtuse... DOES THE TIME THE TRADER SPENDS GOING BACK TO DO IT AGAIN WITH AN EMPTY SHIP NOT COUNT?

Transfer yes, I'm not for instant transfer though

The following scenario could be viable if instant transfer is a thing and costs less than the profit of a Sothis run... (Provided there is shipyards nearby to each location)

Jump to Sothis with a 50ly+ asp, call your Conda/cutter/type 9 to you,

Stack up on missions, then deliver them...

Then at the last delivery location, Call your asp back from Sothis.

Jump back to sothis, Call your Space cow...and repeat...


Ship transfer does not exist at the moment... having it in any form is a convenience!

Having it instant and cost effective to the relatively rich (face it, there are many Sothis Poo haulers with billions these days) is a bit exploitative...


Instant transfer will be a nice quality of life feature for your casual 1 hour a night player, but incredibly open to exploit by your more time invested high asset value players.


It needs to be balanced that it is both a convenience but not an exploit... adding a timer that will notify you via your inbox after a few minutes that your ship is ready for collection would be a great addition in my eyes and a good middle ground,

Keep in mind that while waiting for your ship to arrive you can go about doing other things in the station and nearby as you will be notified via a "mission critical message" that your ship is at its intended location.


In short, Ship transfer needs to be balanced that it does not become the new travel meta. IE travel everywhere in my 50ly asp and call my (D-rated FSD) FDL to my location.

we cant have ships be like Pokemon that you carry around in your pocket and "summon" to fight when needed.

Combat ships are currently balanced around having shoddy FSD's but high combat prowess... this instant travel (if implemented incorrectly) could unbalance, it will remove the thought and consideration we currently need to put in to what ships we choose and why...

Think of it in the same way as we could just make all ships have 100MW power plants.... Then careful the consideration and tactical sacrifice we currently employ is no longer needed when outfitting your ship.

/my 2 cents

 

[wulfson]

Good question. We should probably ask for that next. After all, the stations are really just procedurally generated re-use of assets, and markets are static and reset on a set interval. There's really no actual relevance to where anything is purchased, aside from the few locations where FD arbitrarily adds a discount.

And we should also ask for instant cargo transfer, instant mission completion, instant exploration (just click on the galaxy map) and scratch all those stupid ships eliminate time consuming space travel, jumping and other time consuming things.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

To be fair this thread is getting tiresome and snippy. Let's cool a bit and wait for FD response. I think both sides have made their arguments heard.

 

[Verax]

i have never been to Sag A or Jacques, my longest exploration trip is probably around 1K LY. i still think the instant transfer sucks.

The 1 thing i will add, i think it sucks for immersion/believable galaxy reasons HOWEVER I do think some players saying make it realistic travel time and all the downsides of instant travel will be gone are actually mistaken. having realistic delivery time ONLY makes the game plausible, it wont stop people shipping in fully speeced combat ships to distant stations imo........ using this as a reason to not have instant travel may be a bit of a red herring, after all, if i wanted my FDL at jacques i can have it, even if it takes 2 days, so what? i can set it off on a Monday and even if it is the longest of journeys it will be there by the weekend.

I completely agree, excluding that it sucks for immersion/believable galaxy. Those two elements are completely in the eye of the beholder. No one is required or coerced into using the instant transfer features. Anyone can experience their immersion as much or as little as they want to with this feature fully intact. As you stated regarding stationing combat ships in distant stations-- I've done exactly that many times. I stationed my 3 fully combat specced FDLs in 3 distant areas of the bubble so all I had to do was travel between them in Diamondback Scouts. I was working up to have at least 5 fully specced FDLs before Engineers was released and made my style completely impractical due to the timesink involved with upgrading ships (I also don't find that part enjoyable at all, doing one ship is enough of a chore to me, especially after all the hours of money grind I've done in the game). As for travel, I've never been to Jacques but I've been to Sag A. This feature won't make it any easier to get a combat ship there... that's for sure.

It's nice to finally reach a small bit of middle ground with someone who does not share my exact views on this matter here. For that I am grateful.

 

[sgurr]

No they haven't, lol-- and you're just pretending to have something good to say that you're holding back... in lieu of something actually good to say.

Thanks for confirming my point

 

[Khelder]

Oh there's already plenty of "insta magic" in the game. Bring on the yes buts...

I agree. Some I'm happy to live with for gameplay reasons, this particular one I'd prefer not to. Many I would like to have changed (and hopefully they will be one day). I am just surprised that FD actually chose this course. They have a history (at least initially) of preferring grindier options.

 

[JosiahD]

No they haven't, lol-- and you're just pretending to have something good to say that you're holding back... in lieu of something actually good to say.

Oh yes they have - and I suggest you're just pretending they haven't as to do otherwise simply doesn't suit your argument.

 

[Winterwalker]

I am a PvE player. I play mainly in Möbius and Solo. I play a self imposed Ironman. I play with several other self imposed restrictions. I am an Immersion player.

I don't like what has been proposed around instantaneous transport because it affects my Immersion, it breaks the rules of consistence that presently exist in the ED universe. I think it would be a bad move for it to be implemented.

That implementation is I feel highly likely to happen whether I want it or not.

So if this comes in I'm faced with one of the following choices: using it and ignoring the universal inconsistency, placing it on my restriction list so I ignore it or rebuild my personal internal ED universe so it fits.

I'm currently trying to rebuild my 'personal internal ED universe' in the hope that it can work for me - I don't like using my ignore strategy. I don't like having to do complex handwavium jiggery-pokery but needs must. So here's what I have so far:

• All ships are assembled using advance construction technology - this is advanced enough to be near instantaneous.
• All modules are likewise assembled.
• The technology also exists to recycle the ship & modules within a similar near instantaneous timeframe.
• All ships and modules are built to a blueprint that is based on a single (historical or prototype) ship - this is why all ships of a type look exactly the same.
• When a ship is stored - it is in fact recycled - and the blueprint modified to include damage etc - also no cargo storage in stored ships - they don't exist.
• When a ship is retrieved from storage - the blueprint, which you own (it's what you purchased) is used to re-create your ship.
• And modules as well (engineered modules have a blueprint created by the engineer so transfer of them is possible).
• Now the new instantaneous ship transfer isn't physical ship transfer, it's just that you can rebuild a ship from blueprints you own at a shipyard distant from the one it was recycled at.
• You must own the blueprints to be able to recreate your ship - so that's why ships & modules can be limited at stations -they are not licensed to sell them (it's also how Jaques could get a shipyard with ships so quickly).

I can live with this, in fact as I write it I'm starting to like it. It will however still require some self imposed restrictions I think.

I also agree that it will affect the meta and that the above does nothing to fix that. I am personally neutral on this but can see how it can have a very detrimental affect on others. I can see how others will exploit it. I however don't think that it will have a large affect on my play style but I will have to see.

This undermines any "skill" the engineers have, they just own a load of blueprints.

 

[Verax]

If Frontier allows players to fully play how they want, then they must remove all the in-game restrictions. That doesn't happen, because people must be immersed in this virtual Milky Way galaxy.



It takes a lot more time if you get interdicted and you cannot move multiple ships at once without ship transfer.

As I said in another thread: it's a big deal to instantly teleport an armada to another location on the other side of the galaxy (hundreds of thousands of light years away). It's not believable and ruins immersion.

Why would we journey for days to reach Sagittarius A if we can just teleport ships or robots and then use some kind of remote control.

Players should be able to order ship transfers in advance from a different station.

You don't understand the feature. You can't teleport anywhere. All you can do is move stored ships to the current station where you are. There are no stations in Sag A. Learn what you're debating before debating it.

 

[Scorpion]

Transport of ships - Love it
Instantaneous - No. Please no.

Possibly put info in regarding process. For example you are not getting your actual ship but a ship built to the exact specifications. This build will take time, even 3 minutes would be fine.

 

[Martind Forlon]

Instantaneous

Repairing damage to all the modules in your ship and your knackered hull. Replacing umpteen panels and blasted canopy. Instantaneous. While typing this I'm thinking about taking my nearly written off car to the garage and asking them to fix it so it's like new. While I'm still in it.

Reloading all the ammo containers, ammo clips, restocking mines, restocking missiles and docking a new SRV. Instantaneous. I'm thinking about the time it takes to load up a military aircraft with live rounds and live warheads with all the safety regulations and such as I type this.

Off loading 500 Tns of cargo and selling it on the commodity market and then purchasing another 500 Tns of different cargo and loading it all onto your ship through the cargo hatch. Instantaneous. I'm thinking the time it takes to off load an articulated lorry, container by container, then restock it again as I type this.

Being killed in my SRV on a planet with 4Gs of gravity and appearing back in my ship which was orbiting the planet about 300 miles away. Instantaneous. I'm thinking about the speed with which this tiny escape pod (that fits inside the SRV?!) can travel at whilst also having enough fuel to get you there from a 4G take off. Like a magic ejector seat that propels you 300 miles into the air!

Appearing back in the station I last visited inside the bubble in an exact copy of my engineered ship after being killed from doing something stupid at the far side of the universe. Instantaneous. Date and time on the HUD proves it. I'm thinking about the amount of jumponium needed for such a long distance single jump as I'm typing this.

Replacing an internal module of your ship with a completely different module. Instantaneous. I'm thinking about taking all the seats out of a 7 seater and then securly fitting in a miniature ore refinery, all correctly hooked up to the dash and electrics.

Want to land at a station you have never visited before in a system you have never been to before even though you are currently wanted, because you killed 5 cops the moment you entered the system and you're carrying 500 Tns of illegal cargo. I mean.. literally the only thing on your ship is dirty stinking slaves crammed in like sardines. <br>
Receiving docking permission. Instantaneous. I'm thinking of airport customs when I say this.

I don't think I have ever seen masses of people complaining about these on these forums. What makes the ships transfer any more or less strange in this game? Or are we worried that some ones going to spawn there death machine at Jacques station and murder everyone in open? [smile]

I would probably watch that stream.. the beginning of the end of open play at Jacques.

... sadly can't add rep for this nice post (locked discuss redirected to this thread), but it is imo good have it here ... o7

 

[-=VampyrE=-]

• All ships are assembled using advance construction technology - this is advanced enough to be near instantaneous.
• All modules are likewise assembled.
• The technology also exists to recycle the ship & modules within a similar near instantaneous timeframe.
• All ships and modules are built to a blueprint that is based on a single (historical or prototype) ship - this is why all ships of a type look exactly the same.
• When a ship is stored - it is in fact recycled - and the blueprint modified to include damage etc - also no cargo storage in stored ships - they don't exist.
• When a ship is retrieved from storage - the blueprint, which you own (it's what you purchased) is used to re-create your ship.
• And modules as well (engineered modules have a blueprint created by the engineer so transfer of them is possible).
• Now the new instantaneous ship transfer isn't physical ship transfer, it's just that you can rebuild a ship from blueprints you own at a shipyard distant from the one it was recycled at.
• You must own the blueprints to be able to recreate your ship - so that's why ships & modules can be limited at stations -they are not licensed to sell them (it's also how Jaques could get a shipyard with ships so quickly).

I can live with this, in fact as I write it I'm starting to like it. It will however still require some self imposed restrictions I think.

Wonderful! Thought of the same way.
3D-Printing schould be possible in an fast and good way in the future.
You sell the right to use Blueprints, and the material. A Station has the equipment to create it.

 

[Quill]

Yeah ship and module transfer would save lots of time even if it took 1 hour. That's still more believable than instant delivery.

Instant delivery breaks the Elite lore and in-game rules. Waiting for a short while makes things more rewarding than if you can get it in a snap of your fingers.

Don't sacrifice realism for the sake of instant gratification of players without patience.

Totally agree!

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Yeah ship and module transfer would save lots of time even if it took 1 hour. That's still more believable than instant delivery.

Instant delivery breaks the Elite lore and in-game rules. Waiting for a short while makes things more rewarding than if you can get it in a snap of your fingers.

Don't sacrifice realism for the sake of instant gratification of players without patience.

Totally agree!

 

[Verax]

Oh yes they have - and I suggest you're just pretending they haven't as to do otherwise simply doesn't suit your argument.

Nope. I was here earlier and have only seen the same arguments beaten to death. None of them stand up to logical reasoning, and many are based on misconceptions about the feature itself.

 

[Joe Akeem]

The fear of losing peoples interest has lead to this. I'ts happening everywhere.

Look at the movie industry: 'We cut out this scene that really flesh out the story to keep the pace'. And voila, all movies follow the same boring predictable formula and ends up being shallow.
All this is happening to cater to a generation with the attention span of a goldfish. And yet the producers scratch their heads when the revenue plummets.

Tragic.

 

[Ziljan]

Another question: if we will be able to summon ships and modules instantly for a fee, why not allow us to buy any ship or module from any dock (subject only to maximum pad size) for an additional fee?

Why not just summon ourselves in the ship we're currently in to anywhere in the Galaxy for an additional fee? Let's lower barriers to access to Beagle Point, because hey it's a just a game, not a real 1:1 galaxy.

/Hopefully obvious sarcasm

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

This undermines any "skill" the engineers have, they just own a load of blueprints.

As I say it's a work in progress. So how about:
The blueprint is created after the modification by the recycling rebuilding technology. So there's no blueprint until the wheel of fortune is spun.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

The fear of losing peoples interest has lead to this. I'ts happening everywhere.

Look at the movie industry: 'We cut out this scene that really flesh out the story to keep the pace'. And voila, all movies follow the same boring predictable formula and ends up being shallow.
All this is happening to cater to a generation with the attention span of a goldfish. And yet the producers scratch their heads when the revenue plummets.

Fkn tragic.

Or it is because ED is played by lot of casual people, while 'hardcore simmers' still wait for second coming of Jesus in a form of SC and don't pay attention to ED.

In the end those who pay to play, are those who say how to move game forward.

 

[Verax]

I agree. Some I'm happy to live with for gameplay reasons, this particular one I'd prefer not to. Many I would like to have changed (and hopefully they will be one day). I am just surprised that FD actually chose this course. They have a history (at least initially) of preferring grindier options.

Why do you want more grind? As for Frontier's history of grind emphasis-- that's one of the largest criticisms of the game and prohibitive factors to a broader audience embracing it. Do you want the game to succeed long term, or do you want it to be extra grindy (still not sure why on that either)? It's wanting your cake and eating it too.

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And we should also ask for instant cargo transfer, instant mission completion, instant exploration (just click on the galaxy map) and scratch all those stupid ships eliminate time consuming space travel, jumping and other time consuming things.

Hyperbole in place of valid argument. Again.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Why not just summon ourselves in the ship we're currently in to anywhere in the Galaxy for an additional fee? Let's lower barriers to access to Beagle Point, because hey it's a just a game, not a real 1:1 galaxy.

/Hopefully obvious sarcasm

You know you will have to get to Beagle Point first right?