2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Ozram]

Er no .... It really isn't and you are being disingenuous to anyone who has limited play time. Sometimes people will just want to pick up and play a game, not 'Plan' what they are going to do for the next hour or so, its not a job    .

FD needs to make a game that appeals to as many people as possible, they are also making the game that THEY want to. Sounds to me like you are trying to hang onto ideals that existed 20 years ago when Frontier/FFE came out, well I am sorry but those days are long gone. If you created a game like that now people just wouldn't buy it, not in any huge amount anyway. And this is coming from someone with thinks Elite/Frontier/FFE are some of best games ever made and thoroughly enjoyed playing them at the time. But things move forward and times change.

Thats not to say that Elite should go down the route of NMS and make everything utterly simplified because they won't do that, but some QOL additions to the game that make it a bit more palatable to some is fine by me. You really need to take into account other people needs as well as your own.

We all (most of us anyway) have real lives and limited playtime. It is a bogus and pathetic argument.

 

[Dbrn47]

Those who want to make the game more like an arcade game are a far bigger threat than those who want at least some level of realism.

*shrug* It's reached a level of realism I'm happy with. More arbitrary time sinks aren't something I'm interested in. Having to move ships 1 by 1 at a "realistic" rate is what keeps me from owning multiple ships for different activities to begin with. I move around quite a bit and change my activities frequently, which means I've taken a lot of losses on ships. The distances between ships can and would get quite large quite fast and I simply wouldn't be up for the time sink to consolidate when I find a new playground. I would find the feature near pointless if the transfer took an equal amount of time to get there as if I took it there myself.

Well I vote for him being both.

You know, we can disagree on a topic without me being anything. I'm actually neither disingenuous or ignorant, I just don't agree with you on this topic, it's very simple. Even if I agreed just one bit that instant transport would cause some massive balance issue, there's the caring part that's the problem. As I said, I play this alone or with close friends. Without the realism excuse, I don't have a legitimate reason for myself why it shouldn't be instant, but I have many reasons for myself why it would be really nice for it to be instant. I don't play this game for your enjoyment, I play it for mine.

We don't play this game the same way nor for the same reasons, that much is obvious, but I do know that we both enjoy it regardless of individual reasons. Is that not enough or do I really need to be every sort of ignorant troll if I don't agree with you? We won't ever agree on this, but I'm alright with that. Are you?

 

[Joe Akeem]

An honest question to the instant crowd: Are you in it(ED) for the long run, or will you move on to greener pastures when the excitement goes down?

Just curious because I have a feeling that the 'longrunners' are not so hyped about this mechanic.

 

[Cageman]

If they did it the other way round, and had you entered a contract to move your ship from Sol to Lave while you were at Sol, they could insta-ship. The player has to make there way there. The further downside is if your plans change you'd have to go to that station to sort it, adding a little more risk in chosing where you send a ship. It's not a perfect solution but just reversing the point of contract surely makes this a far less messy and game damaging situation. (I'd still put a max range on it too).

This is probably the best suggestion I've heard so far! Can't rep you more though. :/

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Those "griefers" play 25 hours a day. They were at Jaque's in a FDL before I got there in my T6.
They probably have 200 combat ready ships stored around the bubble anyway.
What exactly is going to change? That they'll be there 3 minutes earlier because they didn't have to jump to the nearest system to the CG and do the last 4 hops in the FDL?

Fair answer I didn't use the g-word as to me: Turning up in Open at a trade CG and wondering why you get blown up, is not being griefed. it is a logical outcome.

If, as you theorise, the potential for an increase in speed and numbers of RPK deployment is not a lot, because they all do it anyway already; that there is not a horde of wannabe RPK who can't quite summon up the motivation to go over to CG currently... Well then my concern is largely neutralised

I suppose the proof will be in the pudding. These are the useful q and a though (imo), rather than people slinging the wikipedia book of logical fallacy rebuttals at one another!

Cheers.

 

[Yaffle]

Maybe it would help if people offered specific examples as to how they think this will impact their gameplay?.

Just as a trader I use a T9 for cargo space. From time to time I change trade routes, so I have to engage my brain a bit and work out the best way to get to the new route, or to go and scout one out. I need to work out a balance between cargo, jump-range, refuelling. I have to do this out of necessity. As a result I've had quite a few hair-raising episodes and interesting encounters.

Now I summon my Asp. I make three jumps, or scout the easy way, summon my T9. My game has gone to one of a bit of thinking and planning to one of simple button pushing. No more do I need to compromise on the 'transit' T9. No more do I have the chance of those sweaty palms moments in transit.

Of course, I can ignore this mechanic. But many won't, and will skip out the game, jumping from 'grind' to 'grind' and moaning about the grind and how it's all the same.

At least with a delay I can still play the game, maybe use my Asp to do some trading, go and scan a few stars I would not have been to but for having the time while the T9 is shipped.

What gameplay will the mechanic add? What are the pros of the mechanic?

I've not seen a case for it yet.

 

[Verax]

But you dont have to do that .. Thats your choice in the end, so basically you are biting your nose off to spite your face with that attitude.

Exactly... and if that person knew any better they would realize downgrading FSD hardly gives any significant advantage. I've tried it. The only benefit was a shorter list of systems to select from on the hi wake menu and a guarantee it would use less fuel. Not really a huge advantage at all.

 

[J.R.Ehman]

I think instant ship transfer goes against the theme of the game.
In the current state of the game it's an important decision where to go in which ship. The game forces you to make a decision and face the consequences - and that is part of the harsh universe it takes place in. Making a decision in the game world and facing the consequences creates not only immersion, but more importantly depth and meaning. You relate to it on a deeper level, because what you do has meaning to you and the entire game. If we get magically teleporting ships no one has to make that decision anymore and face the consequences. Thereby the game loses not only immersion, but also meaning and depth.

 

[Shar]

But you dont have to do that .. Thats your choice in the end, so basically you are biting your nose off to spite your face with that attitude.

Not true, Ill need and want to optimize my combat ships to stay competitive and that means getting rid of unneeded A class FSD

I will only need A Class on my ASP an my tradconda.

Why would i need or want good FSD on my magic in to CG combat ships.

 

[[VR] Marrs]

That's huge assumption knowing all good pilots use power management cascade to use more powerful weapons while turning FSD off during combat.

But you knew that. You just needed dramatic example. Like seriously guys, cut the drama and stop snipping to each other.

My bad. I'm not a pvp player so hadn't considered that.

 

[Boomer Kay]

And it takes days or weeks. Shipping is fine. Teleportation is not.

There's no difference.
It's literally a change in database numbers.
If you stay within the 4th wall, *everything* around my commander is "magic". I don't know how players can magically pop up at jaque's the same day they left the bubble. It took me literally 10 days to get there.

 

[kofeyh]

Thats not to say that Elite should go down the route of NMS and make everything utterly simplified because they won't do that..

Small point of order, this is what ship transport is. Same with storage. Same with bookmarks. They are simplifying the game in an attempt to make it more approachable by a wider community. It's mostly QOL improvements and that's not a bad thing. It's actually very good. Because more people playing does mean more income, so more to invest in future development. Nothing wrong with that. So big tick from me.

But has actually been happening for some time now regardless; it's not a light switch and suddenly oh look it's mario carts in space. It's a change here. A change there. Sometimes those changes will fundamentally affect how the universe works. This, is one of those changes. It's not the feature, it's the execution of it really.

How it's done, will absolutely change how people interact with the game, at a pretty deep level. It's not surprising this has stirred up debate. It was always going to.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Exactly... and if that person knew any better they would realize downgrading FSD hardly gives any significant advantage. I've tried it. The only benefit was a shorter list of systems to select from on the hi wake menu and a guarantee it would use less fuel. Not really a huge advantage at all.

In the good old Vulture, it gave a very significant advantage...

 

[Weps]

But you dont have to do that .. Thats your choice in the end, so basically you are biting your nose off to spite your face with that attitude.

Of course you have to do that if you even remotely think about playing with others. If you're against another group in a CG, or in PP, or simply playing BGS, you're gonna use all the tricks in the sleeve if the other side is doing it, because you want to reach your objectives. Otherwise there's no point in doing what you're doing.

Even if it boils down to playing with some friends, and they've all summoned their combat ships and are waiting for you to get your rusty Vulture in, so that you can finally join that CZ, you're gonna do it the fast way. They won't wait for you to RP. "Oh wait guys, I'm imagining my ship being transported in and I've not finish imagining! Guys? Guys, hello?"

I know a lot of people play in Solo these days, but please, let's at least pretend we still want this game to be multiplayer and consistent.

 

[Shar]

Exactly... and if that person knew any better they would realize downgrading FSD hardly gives any significant advantage. I've tried it. The only benefit was a shorter list of systems to select from on the hi wake menu and a guarantee it would use less fuel. Not really a huge advantage at all.

Again with the rubbish, it can make a good enough difference especially to heat. and about 40-60 tons on a big ship that makes me faster. stop generalizing. you really don't know nearly as much as you think you do.


POWER, WEIGHT, HEAT you skipped all those factors and bang on about a list and fuel.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Er no .... It really isn't and you are being disingenuous to anyone who has limited play time. Sometimes people will just want to pick up and play a game, not 'Plan' what they are going to do for the next hour or so, its not a job .

FD needs to make a game that appeals to as many people as possible, they are also making the game that THEY want to. Sounds to me like you are trying to hang onto ideals that existed 20 years ago when Frontier/FFE came out, well I am sorry but those days are long gone. If you created a game like that now people just wouldn't buy it, not in any huge amount anyway. And this is coming from someone with thinks Elite/Frontier/FFE are some of best games ever made and thoroughly enjoyed playing them at the time. But things move forward and times change.

Thats not to say that Elite should go down the route of NMS and make everything utterly simplified because they won't do that, but some QOL additions to the game that make it a bit more palatable to some is fine by me. You really need to take into account other people needs as well as your own.

So games that don't appeal to people who don't have a lot of time are not allowed to exist? Never understand that argument that game has to do what people X (whoever said group is defined as) wants.

Tough you are right that in the End FD has to do what they want, even if that is something I don't care about. Just would like to know what kind of Game FD actually wants to do, just look at the Gamescom: On the side you had DB talking about realism and scientifc accuracy and how important and great it is, on the other side you had Sandro not caring about realism or science or lore or anything stating what matters is easy quick accessabilty. What is the game FD wants to do?

 

[Boomer Kay]

Again with the rubbish, it can make a good enough difference especially to heat.

So using a small FSD that produces less heat is an advantage over turning your FSD off with power management and produce 0 heat?

 

[Dbrn47]

An honest question to the instant crowd: Are you in it(ED) for the long run, or will you move on to greener pastures when the excitement goes down?

Just curious because I have a feeling that the 'longrunners' are not so hyped about this mechanic.

Long run. Don't judge too swiftly there sir. Been here since the release and as long as we keep getting things I enjoy, I'll still be here later. I enjoyed Power Play when it came out.. You know, that "obnoxious grind" everyone hated? I have my likes and dislikes and they don't fall in line with how long I've been or how long I plan to be.

 

[[VR] Marrs]

False.

There is nothing preventing anyone from downgrading FSD with or without this feature.

You also grossly overestimate the impact of doing so. It's almost negligible, and using power priorities it's not even a requirement to have power to FSD during combat. In fact, on power demanding builds, I sometimes will outfit an A-rated life support with 25 minutes of air so I can turn it off automatically with hardpoints deployed to save power, while still having plenty of time to battle. Where there's a will, there's a way. Your argument has many holes in it as well because what about the inequity created by Engineers? Are you against Engineers because they put anyone who doesn't play that element of the game at a combat disadvantage? What about players with more money simply to upgrade their ships vs players that can't? Is that unfair? This is absurd. Your point is moot for multiple reason. You're merely grasping for straws like many people here that want to conjure up any possible argument that might convince Frontier to change the feature. You don't really care if it makes sense or not.

I do care and I accept your arguments.

What do you think of my proposal here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...le-Transport-Yay-or-Nay?p=4384663#post4384663 ? It's designed to counter the immersion breaking aspect of instant transfer but with practically the same outcome (except for requiring a little bit of forward planning).

 

[Abomination]

Ship an module transfer, yeah sure, nice to have.
Could do without though.
-
But please no instant transfer of anything.
It totally wrecks the believability.
-
Add some npc carriers or something moving between a few key systems.
Also let all players see these carriers jumping from system to system when in supercruise.
Really difficult to implement a good system with all this instancing though, so maybe make them invunerable for the time being. A bit like moving space stations such as Jaques, but this time automated (scripted).