The Star Citizen Thread v5

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I watched the GC demo, and I have to say, it looks amazing. I love the idea of EVA'ing over to a derelict ship and seeing the assorted post-battle detritus floating around.

But I realised that most of the online gamplay wont be like that. For a start, I suspect the "AI" on the destroyed Starfarer were players, as the "pirates" on the planet. I doubt players are going to be sitting around in empty ships, waiting to troll someone who may or may no come along.
Those pirates were players yes, but the idea of that is not that far. We have to think one thing, the idea is not to troll(it may end up being that for some people) but a player that kill you in that ship has a free ship(your ship) to sell somewhere(and if they just capture you, a slave to sell), a group of players, and even a well done AI can try to do something like that.

If they end up doing it in the final 3.0 is yet to be seen ofc, but it is possible. At least for players.
 
Well I was impressed by the gamescom demo, a little bit of "faith" restored in the project. I can't help but think they should have done things the Elite way and had something tangible to release then work on these things to add when ready.

I was very impressed with the fact that the bases are not like Skyrim/fallout and are actually part of the main play world.

I also can't see how they can get enough hand crafted stuff completed fast enough. But ultimately it's more "my" sort of game with the seamless walking/base/planetary/space stuff. Probably why I like NMS so much. And also why Elite is boring me a bit as it's TOO much in space at the moment for me to fully enjoy. I can fully understand those who prefer the "spacey" stuff will much prefer Elite, it's really good at that (gameplay/science conflicts notwithstanding!).
 
a player that kill you in that ship has a free ship(your ship) to sell somewhere(and if they just capture you, a slave to sell), a group of players, and even a well done AI can try to do something like that.

Do I have to explain why this is a gamplay style impossible to implement in a multiplayer game? Sell you for a slave? Seriously?

Free ship?

What will happen? Everyone who gets their ship stolen will have to work for a new one? What if they paid for it with real money? What... insurance? Sure...

How will then, people NOT exploit the mechanic and suddenly everyone in the game who has friends is flying a constellation? (Give your ship to a player by letting them kill you, respawn and claim your ship, perfect connie cloning.

'Oh, it won't happen like that. Stolen ships will not be forever, it'll have to be sold for money!' . Ok then, an exploit for money.

'No, there'll be a limit and a delay for insurance, it won't be practical to exploit!'... Cue crying people who legitly lost their ships and have to wait for their ships to restore, basically punished for sucking at the game.


The gameplay proposals and the environment design of SC has never been done before NOT because no one thought of it before or was too chicken poop to attempt. It was never done because most of the ideas simply doesn't work beyond the alpha phase of the games which tried it.
 
I watched the GC demo, and I have to say, it looks amazing. I love the idea of EVA'ing over to a derelict ship and seeing the assorted post-battle detritus floating around.

But I realised that most of the online gamplay wont be like that. For a start, I suspect the "AI" on the destroyed Starfarer were players, as the "pirates" on the planet. I doubt players are going to be sitting around in empty ships, waiting to troll someone who may or may no come along.
Then, that mission briefing was amazingly well motion captured, and voice acted. Will every mission be like that? For every mission giver, in all the stations and ports in all 100 sytems?
No, I doubt it. So I think this is deliberately misleading.

I also think the "Ermahgawd, double-cross" was absurd. If the Bald dude thinks he can overcome the players, then why could he not overcome the Pirates the player just ROFLstomped? He clearly has ships in the area, why spent the 6000cr on someone just to risk attacking them later, when you can do the job yourself? I know that's a minor complaint but the mission was fine up till that point. It's like CR thinks that the nonsensical drama should be added for the sake of adding it, no cos it makes sense. And after the eye-rolling Garry Oldman trailer, I don't have high hopes for story quality.

Also, the flight model looks like it continues to be dog    , from watching that Freelancer move about. The ships feel like they have no mass.

Still, on the hole the GC demo left me feeling slightly optimistic. The game might be a fun diversion when it eventually comes out.

Almost all SC demo's look amazing, everyone ooh's and ahh's, then a year later wonder why they are still playing the same buggy crap that looks absolutely nothing like any of the demos. People keep falling for it and wasting money on a project that should already be in customers hands, at the very least to the extent of a semi stable alpha game with a small number of ships and dogfighting that doesn't work like dogpoop  . I know what will happen now, all the fanatics will watch this spend a load more money, CR will start tweaking again and in December there will be an 'unforeseen' blocker that prevents the 'MVP' getting out. If I am proven wrong and by 'wrong' I mean a stable alpha with dogfighting that is fluid and bug free as ED's I will personally find a hat and eat it.
 
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I watched the GC demo, and I have to say, it looks amazing. I love the idea of EVA'ing over to a derelict ship and seeing the assorted post-battle detritus floating around.

But I realised that most of the online gamplay wont be like that. For a start, I suspect the "AI" on the destroyed Starfarer were players, as the "pirates" on the planet. I doubt players are going to be sitting around in empty ships, waiting to troll someone who may or may no come along.
Then, that mission briefing was amazingly well motion captured, and voice acted. Will every mission be like that? For every mission giver, in all the stations and ports in all 100 sytems?
No, I doubt it. So I think this is deliberately misleading.

I also think the "Ermahgawd, double-cross" was absurd. If the Bald dude thinks he can overcome the players, then why could he not overcome the Pirates the player just ROFLstomped? He clearly has ships in the area, why spent the 6000cr on someone just to risk attacking them later, when you can do the job yourself? I know that's a minor complaint but the mission was fine up till that point. It's like CR thinks that the nonsensical drama should be added for the sake of adding it, no cos it makes sense. And after the eye-rolling Garry Oldman trailer, I don't have high hopes for story quality.

Also, the flight model looks like it continues to be dog    , from watching that Freelancer move about. The ships feel like they have no mass.

Still, on the hole the GC demo left me feeling slightly optimistic. The game might be a fun diversion when it eventually comes out.

The Pirates were controlled by Humans, as there were credited as Pirate 1 and Pirate 2 at the end.
Seems the AI is only in for Ships and not for FPS combat at that time.

But presumable they were placeholders for intended AI/NPCs

The Double cross is a cliché of hire an outsider to take all the risk, only to swoop in for the spoils at the end.
The Hired Security arrived when the Players were on the ground, out of the ship and out of ammo, vulnerable, so didn't seem that absurd, clichéd but not absurd.
 
Here are a few questions i have for the missions shown in the Alpha 3.0 play demo.

Let's assume it is now end of 2016 and Alpha 3.0 just got released for all backers to play. Now there are a few people wanting to do the very same mission shown in the video. Let's assume 5 people.


  1. Can they all land at that port at the same time? Or do they have to wait until there is a free landing pad? Would they just land on the surface and then get into the base?
  2. What will happen if they want to interact with the guy in the bar at the same time? Will everyone has to wait for the other player to finish the dialog or can they interact with him at the same time?
  3. How will elevators work in that scenario? Can anyone interact with them at the same time? (Elevator trolls?)
  4. Will there be a new Starfarer wreckage generated for each player that accepts the mission or are they all going to the same Starfarer?
    1. If they are getting each their own Starfarer generated: What is the limit on those? Can they populate the whole asteroid field? How long do they persist? Can you go back after you completed the mission and further explore their wreckage or will they be gone?
    2. If they are all going to the same Starfarer: Will it be like an instanced thing or is everyone going in at the same time? In non instanced scenarios: Will pirates and pirate ships then just respawn randomly at a given time interval?
  5. What about the Dragonfly in that crate? How will it work in instanced or non instanced missions? Can you camp there and wait until a new Dragonfly appears in that hangar when a player accepts that mission? If two people doing the mission independently at the same time, will only of those people get a Dragonfly? Or will there be two Dragonflys in that hangar?
  6. A similar question for the pirate base. Will it be the same pirate base for all players, or are there a number of pirate bases that the mission redirects you to. So if i wait at that base or one of the bases after i completed the mission. Will the loot respawn once another player accepts this mission? Can i take this loot for that other player or will it be instanced?
 
About the incredibly smooth and seamless transitions in SC presentation...

I'd expect to be so as the system was a standalone infrastructure.
It still has to stand the test of "real world" infrastructures and many, many more players...

IIRC even during ED presentations most of everything was silkysmooth and seamless... But then again, my memory it's not what it was...
 
3.0 is expected for the end of this year...

...so.... StarCitizen will beat EliteDangerous for landing on atmospheric planets i guess...

hmmm hehehe the match is becoming interesting
 
Do I have to explain why this is a gamplay style impossible to implement in a multiplayer game? Sell you for a slave? Seriously?
Oh let me expalin that better for you(seriously). At the moment they capture you, you are changed to an NPC. Then you would start a mission to escape from prison/slavery,etc or wake up in your home planet in the hospital with some story of how you have been saved by X people or X corp or whatever they want to put there.

That was de idea.
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/1..._42#Question_10_-_Prison_mechanics.2Fmissions
Free ship?

What will happen? Everyone who gets their ship stolen will have to work for a new one? What if they paid for it with real money? What... insurance? Sure...
If they don't have insurance? Yes, with insurance you can get your ship back, without the modules or things you changed.
They did say they will monitor this kind of stuff to avoid this from happening.

How? I don't know we just know this quote about that and some of the next info.
Systems will be in place to prevent insurance fraud.
And this
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/Insurance-FAQ

And a lot of info in this post:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5644681/#Comment_5644681
 
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3.0 is expected for the end of this year...

...so.... StarCitizen will beat EliteDangerous for landing on atmospheric planets i guess...

hmmm hehehe the match is becoming interesting
Competition is good. ED will learn from SC and SC learns from ED. NMS taught both parties a good lessen. We as players will profit from all that.
 
3.0 is expected for the end of this year...

...so.... StarCitizen will beat EliteDangerous for landing on atmospheric planets i guess...

hmmm hehehe the match is becoming interesting

Why not, as long as those atmospheres are just lighting with some volumetric clouds and the planet is a tiny ball with some random variations of a heightmap for a surface? That planet is what, 2000 km in radius? It's like a little larger than the tiniest moon in ED which are around 300 km in radius. Largest landable planets in ED can be much larger than the Earth in size, which is 6371 km in radius. They can go many times that.

If that was the level of detail and accuracy ED was going for, we'd already have an NMS like experience with teeny tiny planets in ED.
 

How many times will that happen in one player's life in the game? Don't you think people especially sucky at the game will not be fed up with the escape from prison gameplay after they get captured for the umpteenth time? Or do you suggest they start committing suicide as soon as they realise they have no where to run (because the opponent, who is a better player, knows getting them alive will be more profitable).

Sorry, this has so many loopholes, it will never leave the brainstorming phase of the development cycle, where everything gets thrown at the wall to see which ones will stick.

They apparently already convoluted the mechanics governing insurance fraud quite a little bit but it looks like piracy and stealing ships will be a thing, I'll give them that, without the slavery bit of course.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

What lesson do you think NMS taught ED and CIG? Definitely curious on your thinking.

Obviously, avoid riding the hype train to monies and work on your damn game. People will see through your 'shortcuts' in a day and you'll have a hard time making up for it later.
 
What lesson do you think NMS taught ED and CIG? Definitely curious on your thinking.
Ok. Let's say, NMS should have taught CIG a lesson. But i don't think that did work out in their latest presentation. They hyped of what they currently do not have and what could not even work within the bounds of what they announced their game would be.


But i am sure both ED and SC will find elements in NMS that were fun and worked well and in one way or another find their way into both games. I was not talking about specific features. But the more space games there are trying different approaches, the more ways are found how to make certain gameplay elements work. Both games already drew a lot of inspiration from previous space games. However all these were made in the (late) 90s. Concurrent games will influence each other while in active development.
 
Here are a few questions i have for the missions shown in the Alpha 3.0 play demo.

Let's assume it is now end of 2016 and Alpha 3.0 just got released for all backers to play. Now there are a few people wanting to do the very same mission shown in the video. Let's assume 5 people.


  1. Can they all land at that port at the same time? Or do they have to wait until there is a free landing pad? Would they just land on the surface and then get into the base?
  2. What will happen if they want to interact with the guy in the bar at the same time? Will everyone has to wait for the other player to finish the dialog or can they interact with him at the same time?
  3. How will elevators work in that scenario? Can anyone interact with them at the same time? (Elevator trolls?)
  4. Will there be a new Starfarer wreckage generated for each player that accepts the mission or are they all going to the same Starfarer?
    1. If they are getting each their own Starfarer generated: What is the limit on those? Can they populate the whole asteroid field? How long do they persist? Can you go back after you completed the mission and further explore their wreckage or will they be gone?
    2. If they are all going to the same Starfarer: Will it be like an instanced thing or is everyone going in at the same time? In non instanced scenarios: Will pirates and pirate ships then just respawn randomly at a given time interval?
  5. What about the Dragonfly in that crate? How will it work in instanced or non instanced missions? Can you camp there and wait until a new Dragonfly appears in that hangar when a player accepts that mission? If two people doing the mission independently at the same time, will only of those people get a Dragonfly? Or will there be two Dragonflys in that hangar?
  6. A similar question for the pirate base. Will it be the same pirate base for all players, or are there a number of pirate bases that the mission redirects you to. So if i wait at that base or one of the bases after i completed the mission. Will the loot respawn once another player accepts this mission? Can i take this loot for that other player or will it be instanced?

My best guesses
1) There was mention of the time limit you could be on a pad before the pad was freed up for other players. So there will be some system in place to prevent the landing pads filling up after 4 ships
2) I am guessing they would have to wait?
3) Just like real life, elevator trolls included. -> I wonder if there will be stairs somewhere as an alternative
4) I would say this will be part of the PG mission Tech, and the location will be not fixed, nor should the exact scenario in terms of location, cargo, number of pirates etc. I note the spoken dialogue deliberately avoided mentioning there details to allow for the briefing to specify the details and allow for change/randomisation of details. C.f a mission USS in ED
5) From above separet instances and the Dragonfly might not be part of the "loot" with randomised mission parameters
6) Spawned on Demand by the mission, C.f a Surface POI in ED
 
Here are a few questions i have for the missions shown in the Alpha 3.0 play demo.

Let's assume it is now end of 2016 and Alpha 3.0 just got released for all backers to play. Now there are a few people wanting to do the very same mission shown in the video. Let's assume 5 people.


  1. Can they all land at that port at the same time? Or do they have to wait until there is a free landing pad? Would they just land on the surface and then get into the base?
  2. What will happen if they want to interact with the guy in the bar at the same time? Will everyone has to wait for the other player to finish the dialog or can they interact with him at the same time?
  3. How will elevators work in that scenario? Can anyone interact with them at the same time? (Elevator trolls?)
  4. Will there be a new Starfarer wreckage generated for each player that accepts the mission or are they all going to the same Starfarer?
    1. If they are getting each their own Starfarer generated: What is the limit on those? Can they populate the whole asteroid field? How long do they persist? Can you go back after you completed the mission and further explore their wreckage or will they be gone?
    2. If they are all going to the same Starfarer: Will it be like an instanced thing or is everyone going in at the same time? In non instanced scenarios: Will pirates and pirate ships then just respawn randomly at a given time interval?
  5. What about the Dragonfly in that crate? How will it work in instanced or non instanced missions? Can you camp there and wait until a new Dragonfly appears in that hangar when a player accepts that mission? If two people doing the mission independently at the same time, will only of those people get a Dragonfly? Or will there be two Dragonflys in that hangar?
  6. A similar question for the pirate base. Will it be the same pirate base for all players, or are there a number of pirate bases that the mission redirects you to. So if i wait at that base or one of the bases after i completed the mission. Will the loot respawn once another player accepts this mission? Can i take this loot for that other player or will it be instanced?

Many wise questions, and many others questions could be brought to the table too, confirming that this demo was pretty cool, but once again only a proof of concept of what CIG tries to aim at, not what it WILL be. And there's few chances they'll manage to scale all this up to 'Verse's dimensions, MMO aspect and then players expectations.

I take this demo as a better presentation of what Squadron 42 could end to be, but definitely not what Star Citizen will be, if it ever will.
 
How many times will that happen in one player's life in the game? Don't you think people especially sucky at the game will not be fed up with the escape from prison gameplay after they get captured for the umpteenth time? Or do you suggest they start committing suicide as soon as they realise they have no where to run (because the opponent, who is a better player, knows getting them alive will be more profitable).

Sorry, this has so many loopholes, it will never leave the brainstorming phase of the development cycle, where everything gets thrown at the wall to see which ones will stick.

They apparently already convoluted the mechanics governing insurance fraud quite a little bit but it looks like piracy and stealing ships will be a thing, I'll give them that, without the slavery bit of course.

Is it really that difficult for it to be from my point of view, I am defeated Fade to Black, awake in Hospital
And from the others point of view, an NPC is substituted to be killed/captured/rescued?

Just as if in ED, my ship is destroyed and I end up at the rebuy screen, where as the people who destroyed me, finds an escape pod in the debris of my now destroyed ship.
 
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