2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

Do you want ship and module transfer, if so how long should it take?

  • Yes, I want ship transfer.

    Votes: 1,869 71.1%
  • No, I don't want ship transfer.

    Votes: 90 3.4%
  • Yes, I want module transfer.

    Votes: 1,522 57.9%
  • No, I don't want module transfer.

    Votes: 137 5.2%
  • Transfer should be instant.

    Votes: 638 24.3%
  • Transfer should take a small fraction of the time it would take manually.

    Votes: 656 25.0%
  • Transfer should take a large fraction of the time it would take manually.

    Votes: 585 22.3%
  • Transfer should take at least as long as it would take manually.

    Votes: 696 26.5%

  • Total voters
    2,629
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Sure, we can decide not to use instant ship transfer, but in doing so we'd be handing players who do use it an advantage. Many's the time I've had to plan my missions around my ship's cargo/combat/jump capabilities, and that would be negated if I could just click my fingers and my Type-9 or Viper could be right there - what's the point of being in a particular ship at a particular place if it's all just interchangeable? If we have to concede to the instant gratification crowd then a true choice would be instant (costs lots of money) or realistic transit time (costs less money). A choice between using the feature and pretending it doesn't exist isn't satisfactory to me.
 
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That module storage is just lile your data and material storage and i dont like that ! Give my a base and i will storage everything in there. I dont want to magicly trasport my materials and modules. All i want is my own home in ed universe.
 
Sure, we can decide not to use instant ship transfer, but in doing so we'd be handing players who do use it an advantage. Many's the time I've had to plan my missions around my ship's cargo/combat/jump capabilities. If we have to concede to the instant gratification crowd then a true choice would be instant (costs lots of money) or realistic transit time (costs less money). A choice between using the feature and pretending it doesn't exist isn't satisfactory to me.

Why do you care what other players are doing? Your ED experience is yours alone. Yes there is the BGS to consider and CG's and the like. But if you are on one side of the galaxy and there is a CG on the other side of the galaxy you still need to fly there regardless. Using ship transfer gives you no real advantage, and if it costs a bomb in the process as well, then any money you might have made will be instantly written off anyway. I can't see where any 'advantage' is coming from in reality.
 
  • Transfer should be instant.


    328 23.58%

Take a good look sandy we love 2.2 we love ship transfer we even love you. But we hate instant ship transfers and instant coffee.

This is the best evidence we can give you that your implementation is flawed and will not be popular.
 
So, for the moment i've read posts supporting instacrap by:
HammerHead
OriginalBadBoy
Warbaby2
and Verax

There you go guys

See thats where you are wrong as I am NOT, and if you look at my posts I have said it time and time again. It shouldn't be instant at all ...

You should do your homework before making up rubbish.
 
Let me start by saying simply, I get it. I get that people don't want their hard work cancelled by perceived "magics". I get that people want to see effort and dedication hold more sway than not. However, I have read several of your posts, and have constructed what I feel to be a well though out and hopefully level-headed counter-argument I would appreciate a respectable debate on. Grounded on this argument are 3 main points: first, we already have some small immersion breaking mechanics, and they actually increase the enjoyment of gameplay, not decrease it. Second, this is the best option of the alternatives, allowing everyone to enjoy the new mechanic, not only the most hardcore players, and that's a good thing. Third, this is believable within real-world mechanics and lore, if you're willing to suspend your disbelief, as we already do.

This isn't the first "immersion breaking" mechanic, and that's a good thing.

We all know that FTL travel is likely impossible within the real world, and have accepted this breaking of the laws of physics to enjoy the Galaxy Frontier have created for us. Furthermore, shielding technology is another unlikely technology we've accepted. These are not really the one I'm going to hone in on though, instead, I'd like to comment on the base combat mechanic: dog-fighting.

It's been said before, I know, but dog-fighting in space is ridiculously unreal, an entirely laughable concept that is still, without a doubt, immense fun, and a large part of why many people play the game. One need only look at the current state of Naval warfare to realize how silly visual-range space-fighting is. Currently, ships engage each other at the extreme ranges of vision. Tech currently exists to allow engaging well outside visual range (i.e. the Railgun currently set to be installed on Zumwalt-class destroyers in the United States Navy, which has a range of over 160 km, compared to the visual range at sea of 4.7km).

Warfare has always been about who can deliver a killing blow outside the lethal range of the opponent. No reason that should stop when the potential theaters of war grow to solar systems. However, we accept this "gamey" mechanic because without it, or the others mentioned above, the game would lose some of the fun. We have accepted that this isn't what Elite is about, and with all of its science and realism, we allow certain mechanics because they make the game more enjoyable. Why not give the transfers, something we have been asking for since Beta, a chance before we tear Frontier apart for listening to us?

This is the best option available to allow everyone to enjoy the new mechanic.

We all know Braben loves realism. Hell, he spent the majority of one of the interviews talking about the science behind the game! But he is also a game designer, and with that comes the need for compromise. Developers have to take a look at their player-base and determine the best way to implement each new mechanic so no one is truly "left out". Now let's look at ship transfers, a mechanic that has been wanted for quite some time, that Frontier has taken the time to implement. There were likely several options available, and while I wasn't a fly on the wall for the discussions, I can make an educated guess on what these likely were.

First, we have free, instantaneous ship transfers. After all, you own the ship, why not allow yourself access at any time? This is an obvious no for several balance reasons.

Second, we have free, timed ship transfers. Not a terrible idea, as again, it's your ship, but then you have to think about the more casual players, of which there are likely many. It's been said on these forums before, but many of us work full time jobs, have a family, have other social obligations, or a combination of the three. As such, many of us can devote only a few short hours a week to the game. Myself, a full-time student, married, with a part-time job and what I like to think is a moderately active social life, I can maybe dedicate a good 6-10 hours a week to the game depending on school-load and how introverted the Mrs. is feeling that week. If ship transfers took say, half the regular travel time, I would still be looking at a rather extensive wait when moving from one CG area to another, or when finding a well situated war-zone to fight in. What is there to do during this wait? Not a lot. Sure, I could have Netflix on another screen, but then what's the point of playing the game? Maybe if we had walking in stations with some in-built mini games like casinos or such, I could bide my time, but these ideas have not yet been implemented, so it's a moot point. So we see people like myself unable to effectively use the mechanic to enjoy their limited play-time.

Finally, we have instant transfers at a cost. This cost will need to be balanced appropriately, likely using a simple formula that takes ship cost and range into account, and seem the route Frontier have decided to take. And this makes sense. It's a decision on whether you want to spend those hard-earned credits on a ship-transfer, or a new module. Yes, I know there are the super-rich, those who have either dedicated countless hours or utilized exploits to gain unfathomable riches, but I feel those are a small percentage of the player-base, and cannot truly be balanced against when considering new mechanics. Neither should they be punished for their riches, as this would punish the average players to a much greater degree.

This isn't so much magic as a bit more suspension of disbelief/Handwavium-239.
We all know that fantastical element Handwavium-239. It's what explains FTL travel, shields, space dog-fights, and other hard-to-belief mechanics within games and media. It's a great thing that allows us to break away from the mundane reality we all live in to enjoy our fiction. It allows us to ignore the unpleasant truth that we as a species will likely never reach further than our home-planet, and definitely not within any of our life-times, to instead explore the stars, interact with alien life in the most human way possible (blowing it up), and see vistas that no human born today will see without the aid of cameras and robots.

Many have described the new mechanic as magic, something above and beyond Handwavium-239. Magic goes beyond suspension of disbelief into: "It happens because it happens, and can't be explained at all." Handwavium-239, on the other hand usually has a cursory explanation that one need only take at face value without looking behind the curtain, an easy thing for most humans to do. This is why we have FTL travel, using, likely, a version of the Alcubierre drive, even though such a drive would be impossible when broken down to the real requirements (the primary culprit being causality and time itself). So why can't we apply a bit of this versatile isotope to the new mechanic? It took me all of a minute to come up with a decent explanation:

Stations keep spare ships not available for sale ready for this transfer service. Upon receiving your transfer request they outfit one of these earmarked ships exactly as yours was using schematics from the ships entrance scan and load it up. Your ship X light years away is then stripped and set aside within that station for when someone else wants to "transfer" their ship. Kind of like HourCar for space. These ships are owned by the transfer service, not the ship sales-people, explaining why you can't buy every kind of ship, but can transfer any kind of ship. Your transfer fee pays for materials required to "print" your ship components, offset by the fact that your original ship was stripped and kept for use by someone else at your old station.

Boom, done. Now remember the most imporant part of utilizing Handwavium-239, don't look behind the curtain. Otherwise you risk a complete meltdown within the suspension-of-disbelief reactor leading to contamination of your fun-supply. Thank you for your time, here's a funny comic for the trouble.

space_elevators.png
 
But we hate instant ship transfers and instant coffee.

Ah, regarding the coffee thing.
Common misconception. If presented with instant vs. brewed coffee, 80% of the population can't even tell the difference. They still "hate instant coffee", though.
(I work for a company that makes that stuff, the figures are in our database :p )
 
  • Transfer should be instant.


    328 23.58%

Take a good look sandy we love 2.2 we love ship transfer we even love you. But we hate instant ship transfers and instant coffee.

This is the best evidence we can give you that your implementation is flawed and will not be popular.

And 27.something percent say it should take the same amount of time as doing it yourself.
 
But its not ... really it isn't, even Elite/Frontier and FFE have elements that could be considered 'arcadey' , for example a docking computer. As stated FD have balanced it pretty well , but ED is not a hardcore sim not in the slightest. if it was you would have perma death and be expected to cover all aspects of your ship down to the smallest detail. ED does not expect that of the player.

Your idea of 'sim' is somewhat incorrect.

But then again, Frontier came up with all these wonderful ideas in the KS days, when they needed people's money!

Ironman mode.

Until now this is canned.

Then they talked about ship transfer! and the idea was really very well thought out, even down to the Balancing bits, however that went down the drain didn't it.

Another gem, multi jumps and "autopilot" design (yes they even had that in the design in those glorious days!

So my question, why are FDEV willing to implement INSTANTANEOUS ship transfer, and not the autopilot thing? It doesn't make any sense at all! If you could set a course and the ship would automatically travel to where you need to go, this would be a awesome feature, but no, we got the instant ship transfer due to game play reasons.

ZNlRX.gif


Maybe it's time for that separate mode after all FD, I would even pay good money each month for a separate server where all this nonsense is blocked out. Look how big the mobius group is, I'm sure there are just as many who would like a Ironman mode even if there is a subscription fee attached to it.
 
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Let me start by saying simply, I get it. I get that people don't want their hard work cancelled by perceived "magics". I get that people want to see effort and dedication hold more sway than not. However, I have read several of your posts, and have constructed what I feel to be a well though out and hopefully level-headed counter-argument I would appreciate a respectable debate on. Grounded on this argument are 3 main points: first, we already have some small immersion breaking mechanics, and they actually increase the enjoyment of gameplay, not decrease it. Second, this is the best option of the alternatives, allowing everyone to enjoy the new mechanic, not only the most hardcore players, and that's a good thing. Third, this is believable within real-world mechanics and lore, if you're willing to suspend your disbelief, as we already do.

This isn't the first "immersion breaking" mechanic, and that's a good thing.

We all know that FTL travel is likely impossible within the real world, and have accepted this breaking of the laws of physics to enjoy the Galaxy Frontier have created for us. Furthermore, shielding technology is another unlikely technology we've accepted. These are not really the one I'm going to hone in on though, instead, I'd like to comment on the base combat mechanic: dog-fighting.

It's been said before, I know, but dog-fighting in space is ridiculously unreal, an entirely laughable concept that is still, without a doubt, immense fun, and a large part of why many people play the game. One need only look at the current state of Naval warfare to realize how silly visual-range space-fighting is. Currently, ships engage each other at the extreme ranges of vision. Tech currently exists to allow engaging well outside visual range (i.e. the Railgun currently set to be installed on Zumwalt-class destroyers in the United States Navy, which has a range of over 160 km, compared to the visual range at sea of 4.7km).

Warfare has always been about who can deliver a killing blow outside the lethal range of the opponent. No reason that should stop when the potential theaters of war grow to solar systems. However, we accept this "gamey" mechanic because without it, or the others mentioned above, the game would lose some of the fun. We have accepted that this isn't what Elite is about, and with all of its science and realism, we allow certain mechanics because they make the game more enjoyable. Why not give the transfers, something we have been asking for since Beta, a chance before we tear Frontier apart for listening to us?

This is the best option available to allow everyone to enjoy the new mechanic.

We all know Braben loves realism. Hell, he spent the majority of one of the interviews talking about the science behind the game! But he is also a game designer, and with that comes the need for compromise. Developers have to take a look at their player-base and determine the best way to implement each new mechanic so no one is truly "left out". Now let's look at ship transfers, a mechanic that has been wanted for quite some time, that Frontier has taken the time to implement. There were likely several options available, and while I wasn't a fly on the wall for the discussions, I can make an educated guess on what these likely were.

First, we have free, instantaneous ship transfers. After all, you own the ship, why not allow yourself access at any time? This is an obvious no for several balance reasons.

Second, we have free, timed ship transfers. Not a terrible idea, as again, it's your ship, but then you have to think about the more casual players, of which there are likely many. It's been said on these forums before, but many of us work full time jobs, have a family, have other social obligations, or a combination of the three. As such, many of us can devote only a few short hours a week to the game. Myself, a full-time student, married, with a part-time job and what I like to think is a moderately active social life, I can maybe dedicate a good 6-10 hours a week to the game depending on school-load and how introverted the Mrs. is feeling that week. If ship transfers took say, half the regular travel time, I would still be looking at a rather extensive wait when moving from one CG area to another, or when finding a well situated war-zone to fight in. What is there to do during this wait? Not a lot. Sure, I could have Netflix on another screen, but then what's the point of playing the game? Maybe if we had walking in stations with some in-built mini games like casinos or such, I could bide my time, but these ideas have not yet been implemented, so it's a moot point. So we see people like myself unable to effectively use the mechanic to enjoy their limited play-time.

Finally, we have instant transfers at a cost. This cost will need to be balanced appropriately, likely using a simple formula that takes ship cost and range into account, and seem the route Frontier have decided to take. And this makes sense. It's a decision on whether you want to spend those hard-earned credits on a ship-transfer, or a new module. Yes, I know there are the super-rich, those who have either dedicated countless hours or utilized exploits to gain unfathomable riches, but I feel those are a small percentage of the player-base, and cannot truly be balanced against when considering new mechanics. Neither should they be punished for their riches, as this would punish the average players to a much greater degree.

This isn't so much magic as a bit more suspension of disbelief/Handwavium-239.
We all know that fantastical element Handwavium-239. It's what explains FTL travel, shields, space dog-fights, and other hard-to-belief mechanics within games and media. It's a great thing that allows us to break away from the mundane reality we all live in to enjoy our fiction. It allows us to ignore the unpleasant truth that we as a species will likely never reach further than our home-planet, and definitely not within any of our life-times, to instead explore the stars, interact with alien life in the most human way possible (blowing it up), and see vistas that no human born today will see without the aid of cameras and robots.

Many have described the new mechanic as magic, something above and beyond Handwavium-239. Magic goes beyond suspension of disbelief into: "It happens because it happens, and can't be explained at all." Handwavium-239, on the other hand usually has a cursory explanation that one need only take at face value without looking behind the curtain, an easy thing for most humans to do. This is why we have FTL travel, using, likely, a version of the Alcubierre drive, even though such a drive would be impossible when broken down to the real requirements (the primary culprit being causality and time itself). So why can't we apply a bit of this versatile isotope to the new mechanic? It took me all of a minute to come up with a decent explanation:

Stations keep spare ships not available for sale ready for this transfer service. Upon receiving your transfer request they outfit one of these earmarked ships exactly as yours was using schematics from the ships entrance scan and load it up. Your ship X light years away is then stripped and set aside within that station for when someone else wants to "transfer" their ship. Kind of like HourCar for space. These ships are owned by the transfer service, not the ship sales-people, explaining why you can't buy every kind of ship, but can transfer any kind of ship. Your transfer fee pays for materials required to "print" your ship components, offset by the fact that your original ship was stripped and kept for use by someone else at your old station.

Boom, done. Now remember the most imporant part of utilizing Handwavium-239, don't look behind the curtain. Otherwise you risk a complete meltdown within the suspension-of-disbelief reactor leading to contamination of your fun-supply. Thank you for your time, here's a funny comic for the trouble.

http://www.explainxkcd.com//wiki/images/5/52/space_elevators.png

That whole wall is based on the fact that some things that are in the game are impossible in our reality. Well they're not impossible in the game world. If the game doesn't follow its own rules however, it becomes a very bad Star Trek episode and I don't wish to play it.
 
Q: How does a spaceship go from A to B instantly?
A: When it's not really a spaceship.

http://www.famousbirthdays.com/headshots/jaden-smith-1.jpg


Think about it. Because this is where we're going.


When Joe the Player looks confused and says, "So I just click this, and my FdL just arrives right away, and I can fly it?", you smile condescendingly, wink at him, and say, "Joe.. seriously... it's not really a spaceship. It's just a computer game, man".


When Joe the Player gets angry and says, "That's - how the hell did that Thargoid strip my shields in one blast!?!", you pat him on the head slowly and say, "Joe, Joe, Joe... really... those aren't really shields, and that wasn't an actual alien. It's just a computer game, man".


When Joe the Player gets disappointed and says, "The galaxy used to feel just ridiculously huge, but now, I don't know... it's just... I don't know...", you shake your head, make tut-tut noises and say, "Joe... come on... that's not really a galaxy. It's just a game.".
 
You don't know that though do you?

Thats over simplifying the impact this might have on the game. In the end there are things being added (aliens and such) which WILL impact the game and the BGS. Those things you will have no choice over, and you are worried about what other players are doing? That has never bothered me, my ED experience is MY experience and its unique to me. I couldn't care less what other people are doing frankly.

You've missed the sarcasm. I've been on your side this whole time. I'm just tired and know that I'm not going to convince anyone to change their mind or at the least stop jerking their knees.

See thats where you are wrong as I am NOT, and if you look at my posts I have said it time and time again. It shouldn't be instant at all ...

You should do your homework before making up rubbish.

Or maybe we're not on the same side. Whatever, I don't really care, didn't until I was insulted and now I'm back to not caring again. I'm with Boomer Kay on this one, thread has just out lived it's usefulness. Hope you guys all enjoy whatever it is we end up with.
 
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