2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Metharius]

Yes, I don't care about any realism implications and I don't care about how it makes me sound. How does it remove me from "anyone's target audience". I've played this game quite enough to be part of the target audience, thank you.

here is your answer https://youtu.be/wQaK-j1n8co?t=3m16s
everyone here cares but you...
hell you dont even care about the essence of the game.

you dont care about this game, you are a free electron who will jump from one game to another.

you may just simply find this game by accident, and now based on your complain, even if you played the game, you complain about core features that make the game what it is.

you dont care and think selfishly, just like in my EvE online example where you would be the guy happy to see a patch removing ship loss upon being destroyed. or in WoW the guys happy to see all the content be more accessible...

as long as it s conveinient for you it s good, well the story of the bird show you otherwise #2369 .. but well i guess it s not like you care, when you find another game you will jump on it ... nothing wrong with that, but ED's fans will be left with a broken space sim who tried to appeal to casual and failed because it was not design to it.

The fact are here.
you dont care, yet you come here (was that a provocation?) you are a free electron and guys like you are objectivly not part of any target audience because you will join without any reason like a mass of gluon soup...but you don t build thing with gluon soup.

also, using that fake argument of "dont like it ? don t use it" is verry childish.
although it could be valid in a solo game (as long as its playerreserved) where you could give yourself 1 000 000 000 000 cr and nobody would care
here (and unlike its predecessor), ED is a multiplayer game. so even if one goes "Three wise monkeys" it will still affect them. that s why cheat is not alowed and you can t simply say:
"well yea i cheated and add 100 billion cr to my balance but nobody is forcing you to do it too if you don t wanna ruin your game "

that would be utterlly stupid and yet ... that s your argument.

By the end of the day the reason for it is simple:
this was designed as a niche game for thoses loving space and SF.
not any random guys who just happend to like mass effect
(

Spoiler

nothign against ME (exept the 3rd[mad])

meaning thoses who like space SF but want to be guided so that everything they see is made to amaze you. not exploring/evolving in the reality of space: else, they call it empty(duh!))
ex: supercruise was asked by the playerbase itself!
and now some new player want it removed, replace by instant tp between the planets....

 

[lysan]

Ah, regarding the coffee thing.
Common misconception. If presented with instant vs. brewed coffee, 80% of the population can't even tell the difference. They still "hate instant coffee", though.
(I work for a company that makes that stuff, the figures are in our database )

When you know how that crap is made, you will never drink it

 

[warbaby2]

Ok, let's try looking at that from a different angle then, shall we?

If ship transfer is an instant, one click, menu option, what does that mean for future plans for the game, like multi crew and walking around in ships/stations and on planets? Will we be even able to enter other peoples ships? What about hiring another pilot to take one of your ships to another location? No need for that if it can be done with one click in a menu, right? I think what people forget is, every simple convenience feature implemented now might very well infringe on the gameplay options implemented in season 3 and beyond.

...same goes for the suddenly remote controlled fighters, by the way. FD seams all to quick right now in implementing simplistic gameplay elements - and even explaining them in lore - for things many of us believed to be implemented in full later down the line. Personally, I find that more then a bit worrying.

 

[Slopey]

It took me all of a minute to come up with a decent explanation:

Stations keep spare ships not available for sale ready for this transfer service. Upon receiving your transfer request they outfit one of these earmarked ships exactly as yours was using schematics from the ships entrance scan and load it up. Your ship X light years away is then stripped and set aside within that station for when someone else wants to "transfer" their ship. Kind of like HourCar for space. These ships are owned by the transfer service, not the ship sales-people, explaining why you can't buy every kind of ship, but can transfer any kind of ship. Your transfer fee pays for materials required to "print" your ship components, offset by the fact that your original ship was stripped and kept for use by someone else at your old station.

Boom, done.

That doesn't work though, because logically you should therefore be able to buy any ship at any station, rendering shipyard availability irrelevant. It's simply not plausible that a shipyard keeps multiple ships of very known type in stock but won't sell them to anyone, but will only give them to people who have a ship like that somewhere else, while meanwhile only offering a Sidewinder or Hauler for sale.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Then they talked about ship transfer! and the idea was really very thoughts out, even down to the Balancing bits, however that went down the drain didn't it.

Another gem, multi jumps and "autopilot" design (yes they even had that in the design in those glorious days!

So my question, why are FDEV willing to implement INSTANTANEOUS ship transfer, and not the autopilot thing? It doesn't make any sense at all! If you could set a course and the ship would automatically travel to where you need to go, this would be a awesome feature, but no, we got the instant ship transfer due to game play reasons.

Well, that's the problem with designers. They get carried away by their own brilliance that looks good on paper.
Someone did design this:

Sitting and fiddling my thumbs while the autopilot did most of the "newtonian" flying in FE2 was one of those "meh" aspects of that game.
It's very relaxing to watch - just like this designer chair, yup, but .. sometimes one just wants to sit.

That doesn't work though, because logically you should therefore be able to buy any ship at any station, rendering shipyard availability irrelevant. It's simply not plausible that a shipyard keeps multiple ships of very known type in stock but won't sell them to anyone, but will only give them to people who have a ship like that somewhere else, while meanwhile only offering a Sidewinder or Hauler for sale.

Valet parking. In case you never tried it, please do so. It's "magic".
They don't sell you any car, not even in a car dealership. They just make sure it's there, when you need it.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

But then again, Frontier came up with all these wonderful ideas in the KS days, when they needed people's money!

Ironman mode.

Until now this is canned.

Then they talked about ship transfer! and the idea was really very thoughts out, even down to the Balancing bits, however that went down the drain didn't it.

Another gem, multi jumps and "autopilot" design (yes they even had that in the design in those glorious days!

So my question, why are FDEV willing to implement INSTANTANEOUS ship transfer, and not the autopilot thing? It doesn't make any sense at all! If you could set a course and the ship would automatically travel to where you need to go, this would be a awesome feature, but no, we got the instant ship transfer due to game play reasons.

http://i.imgur.com/ZNlRX.gif

Maybe it's time for that separate mode after all FD, I would even pay good money each month for a separate server where all this nonsense is blocked out. Look how big the mobius group is, I'm sure there are just as many who would like a Ironman mode even if there is a subscription fee attached to it.

Make your mind up as I am getting confused. You want a full auto pilot, but you dont want ship transfer (instant or otherwise). You also then want a server to block all of it, even though you just said that a full auto pilot would be a great addition.

You are going to have to explain that to me because you seem to be a little confused as to what you actually want.

Also technically 'IronMan mode' does exist, you just have to self impose it whenever you die.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

If ship transfert is instant, does everybody agrees that it should have a cooldown to avoid major exploits ?

Yesss..... if we can understand what exploits those are and how much cooldown is required to offset them.

I guess people have highlighted some possibilities in this thread, but man, its moving so fast, i've barely read 1% of it. I personally can't really think of many real exploits. I can see some things that would speed things up... that might by slightly exploity, but not really exploits. Eg: Fly Asp to Sothis, call Anaconda to do delivery work. Its not like the Anaconda can't outjump the Asp in the first place! Ok, make it a Python, it adds a few minutes to the journey if you do it in the Python.

I've been trying to see if anyone has pointed out any serious exploits than can be had, but.... it seems to be more simply a case of people just not liking it, and therefore trying to find any reason to object to it.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Mission rewards are player assets (materials and commodities) and/or credits - taking on a mission requires a server transaction.

A time delay relating to ship "arrival" at the destination station would be a Boolean result of a timestamp comparison between the "time docked" of the player's ship in the server record and current server time - just as the server checks the location of ships before allowing the player to elect to change to a stored ship. We already change ships - presumably the system for ensuring security of the transaction is already there....

And this is why I don't like getting into the tech quagmire in public. I'm not going to repeat myself again if you're not paying attention. The mission is stateless, only the transaction at the end hits the servers to any extent. It's not my job to correct your flawed assumptions such as "The misson rewards are player assets", no, no they're not, they're only assets once they're rewarded, up until they are they're only a reference on the mission database and not "owned" by anyone.

 

[kofeyh]

Why do you care what other players are doing? Your ED experience is yours alone. Yes there is the BGS to consider and CG's and the like. But if you are on one side of the galaxy and there is a CG on the other side of the galaxy you still need to fly there regardless. Using ship transfer gives you no real advantage, and if it costs a bomb in the process as well, then any money you might have made will be instantly written off anyway. I can't see where any 'advantage' is coming from in reality.

My experience is based on what people do in game. Whether a cutter rocked up before me and emptied the commodites I was going to empty, or flipped a system one way, when I tried to the other, or fortified a system whilst I was trying to undermine.

That rate of change is naturally governed by how quickly those changes can happen. Right now, commanders do have to compromise a little for ship builds, depending on range requirements. This acts as a sort of buffer.

This is exampled by cutter appearing out of thin air in 1.5 and pretty much knocking the BGS for six, because it had better jump range than type 9, and although less range to anaconda, carries basically twice as much. It caused rampant inflation, chronic stock shortages. BGS went a little bit mental.

Just adding one ship, one ship, broke the BGS and sent it into overdrive. The orders of magnatude change that invalidating range concerns on virtually every ship will have dramatic consequences. And not just the BGS. It fundamentally shrinks time taken for virtually every aspect of mechanics where ships are at some point going from A-B.

Am absolutely keen and for ship transport. It's absolutely great. But if people believe this will have no, or trivial impact, then I can only wait to see the reactions when it goes live, if it stays in the current shape. I can only begin to imagine how much this will upend virtually every aspect of the game.

Who knows. Maybe frontier does want to turn the game on its head? I guess we'll find out, hey.

 

[Runis]

Maybe it's time for that separate mode after all FD, I would even pay good money each month for a separate server where all this nonsense is blocked out.

I was saying this since some time ago, when i figured out how bad are some of the players around here. They want easy mode npcs, engineer mats, etc, let them have it on a different server. Let them have everything on a different server, insta everything. Dismantle Mobius and make a separate server just for them and their kind.

 

[CMDR Robyn Highart]

Right, I'll be writing to David Braben about a free A spec Cutter. See you all out there. What? You don't want me to have it. But it's just me! You don't have to get a free cutter. Duh you have a choice! Jeez, some people... It's like they want a game that has consistent internal rules, physical laws and lore.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Right, I'll be writing to David Braben about a free A spec Cutter. See you all out there. What? You don't want me to have it. But it's just me! You don't have to get a free cutter. Duh you have a choice! Jeez, some people... It's like they want a game that has consistent internal rules, physical laws and lore.

They removed the rank requirements on the Imperial ships twice so far?
Most players were actually quite happy it seems? I missed both of them and wouldn't actually mind, if they add some annual event where every ship from every side is rank-unlocked.
(and I do have a Corvette that "I worked hard" for already -shrug-)

(oh, and if I remember correctly, you were the one accusing me of "excessive straw man argumentation" some posts ago .. I'm sure the irony is unintentional, but sweet nevertheless)

 

[Runis]

Right, I'll be writing to David Braben about a free A spec Cutter. See you all out there. What? You don't want me to have it. But it's just me! You don't have to get a free cutter. Duh you have a choice! Jeez, some people... It's like they want a game that has consistent internal rules, physical laws and lore.

This so much.

 

[lysan]

Well, that's the problem with designers. They get carried away by their own brilliance that looks good on paper.
Someone did design this:
http://www.curiosite.com/img/auto_paginas/w320/594.jpg

Sitting and fiddling my thumbs while the autopilot did most of the "newtonian" flying in FE2 was one of those "meh" aspects of that game.
It's very relaxing to watch - just like this designer chair, yup, but .. sometimes one just wants to sit.




Valet parking. In case you never tried it, please do so. It's "magic".
They don't sell you any car, not even in a car dealership. They just make sure it's there, when you need it.

Sorry the link is broken

But yes that is one silly chair LMAO!
I would love a Autopilot mechanic, you know because of GAMEPLAY reasons! It's called think ahead, people should try it, it's wonderful. When we can walk around in our ship's, autopilot will be a very needed feature.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

They removed the rank requirements on the Imperial ships twice so far?
Most players were actually quite happy it seems? I missed both of them and wouldn't actually mind, if they add some annual event where every ship from every side is rank-unlocked.
(and I do have a Corvette that "I worked hard" for already -shrug-)

And they actualy made it beliavable and with in lore explanation and so on. Good old times wheny they cared about such things

 

[tmahone]

Yes/yes for instant on both regards.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Yesss..... if we can understand what exploits those are and how much cooldown is required to offset them.

I guess people have highlighted some possibilities in this thread, but man, its moving so fast, i've barely read 1% of it. I personally can't really think of many real exploits. I can see some things that would speed things up... that might by slightly exploity, but not really exploits. Eg: Fly Asp to Sothis, call Anaconda to do delivery work. Its not like the Anaconda can't outjump the Asp in the first place! Ok, make it a Python, it adds a few minutes to the journey if you do it in the Python.

I've been trying to see if anyone has pointed out any serious exploits than can be had, but.... it seems to be more simply a case of people just not liking it, and therefore trying to find any reason to object to it.

Exactly. Dont forget that shaving off a minute or two of your trade-route is pointless if it costs you too much credits to transfer the ship in the first place. If you make 15m/hr, and you save 5 minutes, getting your python to Sothis may not cost more than a million. Judging by the initial prices, it'll be much more. These things are easy to fix/prevent.

 

[lysan]

I was saying this since some time ago, when i figured out how bad are some of the players around here. They want easy mode npcs, engineer mats, etc, let them have it on a different server. Let them have everything on a different server, insta everything. Dismantle Mobius and make a separate server just for them and their kind.

PVE Ironmode server petition coming up

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

PVE Ironmode server petition coming up

Seriously though ... You die, you go back to the title screen and delete your commander.

Whats the difference between that and a server (which Frontier will need to finance and support) doing it for you.

Answer = about 2 minutes.

 

[JesusRocks1988]

I know exactly how to break the immersion even more! Let us as players choose which of our ships we want to spawn in on login! That would be incredibly useful for long range explorers who want to take part in a CG, but haven't completed their journey yet!

Naw, all jokes aside - I think the ship transfer should have a delay of a small fraction of how long it would take to send manually; to me, a small delay would be sufficient to retain realism. Making it exactly the same as a manual journey would just be irritating - like someone said, there are already enough game mechanics based on making us wait around for things. Plus, in that case, you may as well have just gone and gotten the ship yourself. Say you have a Type 9, and you want to go to a conflict zone... lol, but if that's the only thing I'm there to do, I don't want to have to waste time twiddling my thumbs waiting for my Python to arrive. A short delay could be "okay, I'll check out Outfitting, or the Mission Board while I wait". A long delay is, "Well, might as well log off and come back tomorrow, because my wife has asked me not to play for long today, and the waiting for my ship will just take up all that time; *sigh* I would have liked to jump into combat straight away and blow off some steam".

I know that's not the experience of every player - some people may be more than happy to wait an hour for their Sidewinder to go from one end of the bubble to the other, I certainly wouldn't be. Though I might be more inclined to wait an hour or so for a ship to get to Jacques from the bubble.