Should ship transfers have a time delay or not?

[Monk]

Being someone who was heading on my way back from Jaques, Sandy is dead wrong. It negates the whole sense of accomplishment when I can do things like suisidewinder back and teleport my ship to me.

It's a farce. Lower the challenge and sense of accomplishment so that we can all be losers pretend that we're all winners. [downcast]

Thanks for playing our game. You didn't get anywhere but you did great!

Here ya go!

 

[LeoBartlet]

Not just about realism. This is about continuity of the limitations which already exist in the game...i.e. it takes time to travel places

Plus the time limitation argument doesn't work here. I don't have a lot of time to play. I've been playing regularly since August 2014 and I'm still not Elite in anything...however, an Asp gets me most anywhere in the bubble in less than 20 minutes. What ship txfr is supposed to provide is greater access to my ships and it ought to but not at the expense of breaking continuity with how the game works already. It's like having a car pool lane that automagically takes your car 1000km/s when you have more than 2 people in the car...but get into it a car with 1 person in it and it suddenly doesn't go crazy fast. It is a serious break in continuity which also presents some obvious exploits.

False argument. No one has been against being able to have ships be relocated for them and no one is suggesting this become ironman mode. Also, you don't have to sit and wait for a ship to arrive. God forbid you should have to plan your actions before you take them. As others have mentioned, this circumvents a major part of balance in the game. You suddenly have no requirement to balance out any but a single ship with the 1:1 design of the game universe. Fuel scoops? Why bother when it can just be another hrp or scb. Extra fuel? Forget it. A rated fsd? Who needs that? My combat ships is for pew pew and I can Insta have it wherever I want. If that's the case, then why not remove travel requirements alltogether and just be able to teleport from station to station yourself and 3D print your ship of choice there?

I remember a week or so ago one of the popular threads on this forum was how Frontier doesn't respect a persons time (or words to that effect) and its also be said many many times before how elites such a time sink and now with the eventual inclusion of ship transfer the forum is now up in arms that Frontier has taken into account peoples time limitations with the addition of ship transfer.

In regards to balance a limitation could be added to prevent that such as having to be allied with the station owners faction before you're allowed to transfer ships (in particular combat vessels).

It's important to note this will make intra-bubble transport easier for many but when it comes to exploration or other long range ventures then you're pretty much hooped as you need a station and dock to be able to transfer any ship you want and besides why would you want an A rated FDL on the other side of the galaxy.

 

[bitstorm]

Being someone who was heading on my way back from Jaques, Sandy is dead wrong. It negates the whole sense of accomplishment when I can do things like suisidewinder back and teleport my ship to me.

It's a farce. Lower the challenge and sense of accomplishment so that we can all be losers pretend that we're all winners. [downcast]

Well that's one way to look at it I suppose.

Another is that you're not limited to the ship you have with you. Want to mine out at Jacques then go for it.

Whether you agree or not, that that should happen, it *does* open up gameplay for people. The question is just whether what it enables outweighs having to overlook something unrealistic.

 

[Parmo]

Thanks for playing our game. You didn't get anywhere but you did great!

Here ya go!

https://4d0850cecf2c5ce919d5-17b283...ipation-award-trophy_eb2ace84_m.jpg?bg=817C65

“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
But it'll take sometime.

 

[Ozram]

I remember a week or so ago one of the popular threads on this forum was how Frontier doesn't respect a persons time (or words to that effect) and its also be said many many times before how elites such a time sink and now with the eventual inclusion of ship transfer the forum is now up in arms that Frontier has taken into account peoples time limitations with the addition of ship transfer.

In regards to balance a limitation could be added to prevent that such as having to be allied with the station owners faction before you're allowed to transfer ships (in particular combat vessels).

It's important to note this will make intra-bubble transport easier for many but when it comes to exploration or other long range ventures then you're pretty much hooped as you need a station and dock to be able to transfer any ship you want and besides why would you want an A rated FDL on the other side of the galaxy.

Interesting. While I still hate the notion of Insta ship travel for the aforementioned reasons, I do like your idea that it would be less gamey if tied to your factional standing with the local station owners. That idea almost creates a "home" advantage to players in an "allied" sector.

 

[bitstorm]

And if transfer took some amount of time, swapping ships to Jaques would not be possible, somehow.. Sandro has no         clue and what he says and does contradicts itself everywhere. The guy is a joke.

It's not a contradiction, I think you're misunderstanding.

It's not about whether we should be able to transfer ships or not, that was already planned before this decision was made.

The argument is whether the pros that instant transfer opens up outweigh the cons, Frontier seem to think yes.

 

[Monk]

I remember a week or so ago one of the popular threads on this forum was how Frontier doesn't respect a persons time (or words to that effect) and its also be said many many times before how elites such a time sink and now with the eventual inclusion of ship transfer the forum is now up in arms that Frontier has taken into account peoples time limitations with the addition of ship transfer.

In regards to balance a limitation could be added to prevent that such as having to be allied with the station owners faction before you're allowed to transfer ships (in particular combat vessels).

It's important to note this will make intra-bubble transport easier for many but when it comes to exploration or other long range ventures then you're pretty much hooped as you need a station and dock to be able to transfer any ship you want and besides why would you want an A rated FDL on the other side of the galaxy.

Yup, and I disagreed with those threads too. It is a game, it doesn't need to respect anyone's time. If people never have more than 45minutes at a time to play (I often pick up the game and put it down in that time period while getting a few missions in) then maybe they should be playing an arcade game or some mobile game that DOES respect their short amount of time because that is the use case they are meant for.

Also, if someone's time is so preciously short that they are squeezing in every breath of free time they have into...gaming (for god sakes, if you are that busy you should be working towards making yourself less so, not wasting time gaming) then CQC is probably the correct setting (if FDev cares about getting that working with AIs).

The time sinks have and always will be overstated, in my opinion.

Why should we need FD to create yet another set of balance rules to limit the exploitation of the game mechanic they broke in the first place? They could just avoid it completely by doing things the way most of us thought it was going to be done. The logic here hurts the inside of my nose.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Interesting. While I still hate the notion of Insta ship travel for the aforementioned reasons, I do like your idea that it would be less gamey if tied to your factional standing with the local station owners. That idea almost creates a "home" advantage to players in an "allied" sector.

I'd like to see more limitations on the whole surrounding stations services.

Seems daft that I can spend 40 minutes in a system pirating then go land on one of the factions bases and use the coffee machine and fill the tank.

If im gonna be a space in a game then I expect some consequences and not have a one size fits all approach which we have now.

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Why should we need FD to create yet another set of balance rules to limit the exploitation of the game mechanic they broke in the first place? They could just avoid it completely by doing things the way most of us thought it was going to be done. The logic here hurts the inside of my nose.

Isn't the addition of some timer a balancing feature itself?

If so then perhaps they should take your advice and stay clear of ship/module transfer all together.

 

[Yaffle]

Try? No...WILL abuse, the exploits are too obvious for it not to happen. Instant travel in a galaxy expressly limited by jump ranges is just ridiculous. We might as well have jump gates and trade lanes.

Seriously, what is wrong with reducing our time to retrieve one ship by half and multiple ships at once by many times less. The big improvement was already in the damn DDF...why go this extra step...what is the added gameplay?

It would seem to be that getting to pew-pew each other faster is the gameplay in question. The specific example in the stream was that they had a T9, but wanted to go to a combat zone that very instant, so conjured up a pew-pew-prepped vulture and voila - gameplay.

The Jaques thing is really the same, very few have gone there for pew-pew, this will make more pew-pew, gameplay success.

I've not seen an actual example given other than that so far, the only other suggestion has been undefined 'fun'.

 

[Ozram]

I'd like to see more limitations on the whole surrounding stations services.

Seems daft that I can spend 40 minutes in a system pirating then go land on one of the factions bases and use the coffee machine and fill the tank.

If im gonna be a space in a game then I expect some consequences and not have a one size fits all approach which we have now.

While this is a slight tangent from the topic, I strongly agree with you here and have often thought much the same thing, not only in terms of crime and punishment, but also for access to facilities and how the faction responds to you in general.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Well just listened to Lave Radio.

Was a sensible discussion, the upshot seems to be that Sandi is stressing that the gameplay that it enables is worth the tradeoff.

He cited the example of Jaques and it was stated that they absolutely do want people to have the flexibility of swapping ships out at Jaques, that this is the point.

So while I wasn't keen, I think I'm happy to give it a go and see how it pans out. It's hand-wavium that can be potentially overlooked, and if it makes a whole bunch of gamplay available that wasn't before, then well maybe folk can look past the realism issue.

Would say though that it's worth trying to abuse this feature as much as possible during beta.

Nobody here is arguing against ship transfer. Its the instantaneous nature of it that is aggravating.

 

[Monk]

Isn't the addition of some timer a balancing feature itself?

If so then perhaps they should take your advice and stay clear of ship/module transfer all together.

Oh yeah, I'm going to avoid this. lol

The timer is a representation of how travel already works in the game.

Instant travel would be a NEW addition that would require NEW thoughts around balance.

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It would seem to be that getting to pew-pew each other faster is the gameplay in question. The specific example in the stream was that they had a T9, but wanted to go to a combat zone that very instant, so conjured up a pew-pew-prepped vulture and voila - gameplay.

The Jaques thing is really the same, very few have gone there for pew-pew, this will make more pew-pew, gameplay success.

I've not seen an actual example given other than that so far, the only other suggestion has been undefined 'fun'.

Furthermore, if I'm in my T9, I've got cargo...not a whole lot of other compelling reasons to be flying it.

This cool conflict zone better already be at my destination, else I'd need to offload all my cargo before I could even get into my instantly appeared Vulture. I mean, I can get behind this scenario, really, but is far more limited than they made it seem.

 

[Weps]

The majority of the complaints are of a very different nature - they're anything but selfish. I doubt anyone on the forum in the past days said anything like: "no, you must slog through the game because that's the way it's meant to be - now back to grinding you lazy casual!". We're not a bunch of masochists enjoying boredom and wishing it upon other players.

In fact, lots of forum users went overboard trying to find alternative systems and solutions which would please both the idea of instant action to fun activities and keeping the original feeling and balance of the game. I think that speaks a lot about the dedication of this community, and in fact FDEV should be happy about this because it shows that interest in the game is still high.

What I find sad though is the fact that apparently FDEV have adopted the stance of: "it's been done, we're not going to back down now".

 

[robbyp]

Will anyone listen to these reasoned arguments? Will they listen to the fact that there will be no point in different FSD ranges between ships if you can instant call your ships. We they respect the distances in the galaxy?

All of these are unknown. On previous form when we have told them they should reconsider its about 50-50.

 

[bitstorm]

Nobody here is arguing against ship transfer. Its the instantaneous nature of it that is aggravating.

Swapping out to Jaques has been mentioned a few times as an example of how this is a negative change.

While Frontier view that as a positive, this is what they want, from where Frontier are sitting it is not an example of how it can be abused.

The specific example of Jaques was raised on Lave Radio.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Oh yeah, I'm going to avoid this. lol

The timer is a representation of how travel already works in the game.

Instant travel would be a NEW addition that would require NEW thoughts around balance.

Instant travel might be "new" but many other things are done instantly in the game.

Instant module buying and fitting for one.

Instant fuel filling at the station.

Instant rearming.

Instant synthesis.

Instant refining of mining.

Instantaneous actions in this game ain't new. If we're suddenly gonna put up barriers when we need to look at other instant actions and decide if they are balanced or not.

 

[Leo Sagan]

what is the added gameplay?

None : the player base already made very clear that "instant phun" is not what they want (the CQC debacle) but Sandro 'Dr Strange' Marco didn't get the memo and still tries to shove immediate pewpew into our throats.

Which won't work.

Again.

People will just exploit this to death and this will be Robigo x 1000 in no time.

 

[Monk]

Instant travel might be "new" but many other things are done instantly in the game.

Instant module buying and fitting for one.

Instant fuel filling at the station.

Instant rearming.

Instant synthesis.

Instant refining of mining.

Instantaneous actions in this game ain't new. If we're suddenly gonna put up barriers when we need to look at other instant actions and decide if they are balanced or not.

I agree, there are plenty of instant things in the game but nothing you mentioned is as core to the game as moving your ships to where you want them. Also, aside from mining, the real life analogies of all those activities wouldn't take nearly as long as traveling 200ly. I'm not looking to put up barriers, rather I want to lower them...instant txfr drops the barriers completely which will significantly change the game.

 

[Yaffle]

Instant travel might be "new" but many other things are done instantly in the game.

Instant module buying and fitting for one.

Instant fuel filling at the station.

Instant rearming.

Instant synthesis.

Instant refining of mining.

Instantaneous actions in this game ain't new. If we're suddenly gonna put up barriers when we need to look at other instant actions and decide if they are balanced or not.

This thread is a duplicate, we've allowed it due to the better poll.

It means you missed this in the other thread. All of the actions you describe COULD have a cutscene animation. It would stop you playing. Actively stop you playing. And the first time it would be great. After that, not so much. People moan about 5 seconds it takes for the pad to rotate for example.

Ordering a ship and then carrying on with the game while it is delivered does not stop you playing the game. Sending a ship from remote point A to remote point B does not stop you doing what you were doing and allows you to continue the game.

Now, if the game survives long enough to have spacelegs and as a result there is a gameplay thing with cargo (smuggle stuff, stow away, whatever) then, yes it makes sense to keep playing while it is loaded because things are actually happening. Only, right now it's not like that.

 

[ROSS-128]

It would seem to be that getting to pew-pew each other faster is the gameplay in question. The specific example in the stream was that they had a T9, but wanted to go to a combat zone that very instant, so conjured up a pew-pew-prepped vulture and voila - gameplay.

The Jaques thing is really the same, very few have gone there for pew-pew, this will make more pew-pew, gameplay success.

I've not seen an actual example given other than that so far, the only other suggestion has been undefined 'fun'.

That unfortunately seems to be the case. Well hey, if pew-pew ASAP is the #1 priority too, why not do away with supercruise too? Instead you pick up a mission at the board, and as soon as you hit "accept" you're taken to a briefing screen (with a skip button that'll be enabled as soon as the loading that screen is meant to mask is done). Then you'll be dropped straight into the mission instance, and a scripted mission will start going right away. As soon as you complete the mission objective, you'll get a scoreboard and instantly be brought back to the station.

(note: not a serious suggestion, because that would be silly )