The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
- Start date
I've got my money on coin slots and three lives.
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Javert
Volunteer Moderator
Yes, they are.
However they probably don't have time to read every one of 5000 messages otherwise there wouldn't be any ship transfer or any other feature as they would spend all day on the forum.
Also, part of the role of the community team is that they will be sending summaries of the forum activity and feedback regularly to FD management. I can tell you that this is definitely happening.
Just because they are choosing not to respond at this time (other than via Lave Radio), doesn't mean they are not well aware of the threads.
Also we should keep in mind that 2.2 is not even due out for another 2 months, so replying to this, whilst it might be our top wish, is just one of the many issues they are dealing with.
Very insightful response, thanks Javert. As a side note, did you pick your nickname after Victor Hugo's famous novel ? I always wonder ...
I agree with that assessment. I doubt that it's been lost on Fdev that their entire 2016 Gamescon announcement about 2.2 has been completely drowned out by this one crummy little issue.
There was a time when the prospect of a galaxy full of star systems, and a ship to travel between them, running on an 8-bit machine, seemed just as unintuitive. Square peg, round hole. But then Elite came along. With 8 galaxies, and a galactic hyperdrive to get between them (reduced to 8 on advice from publishers, was originally going to have millions of galaxies). In 8-bits. In 8K of ram. Back in the eighties..
Is relative time really, intrinsically inimical to MP gaming? Because if you think the answer's an easy 'no', that's just lack of imagination.
Managing when, as well as where, you are, could be a really cool, fun mechanic... all these aspects of spaceflight they see as barriers, are actually golden, if missed, opportunities, of the kind Elite and then FE2 capitalised upon..
I firmly believe multiplayer Frontier is technically possible, while retaining all the benefits of ED's restricted handling envelopes as optional features, with instancing based on relative time and velocity rather than the cul de sac workarounds of Galactic Mean Time and absolute velocity wrt coordinate space. Time managment has always been a core part of the game, and remains so in ED. No reason at all players couldn't navigate time and continue to make appointments and deadlines and rendezvous with other players etc.
Soz, but this instant blanket assumption that these things are just logically irreconcilable fosters the kind of placid complacencey that lowers the bar of acceptible compormise in a self-fulfilling defeatism. Elite always pioneered the possible, defying shallow intuitions and challenging the conventions and paradigms, tipping the sacred cows, going there, boldly, where no game has gone before.
It could be done badly, of course, but it could be done really well and return Elite to its traditions of rasing the bar instead of ever-lowering it..
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Awesome! Great answer and full with you on this!
Yes. Let's see what the beta brings us. If we can break it the way we seem to think we can, Frontier has work to do. If they manage to make it meaningful and fitting, all kudos to them. However, we still have a few detached and flailing additions to the game (CQC and Powerplay) that may indicate that they don't always manage to pioneer.
S
Yes. Let's see what the beta brings us. If we can break it the way we seem to think we can, Frontier has work to do. If they manage to make it meaningful and fitting, all kudos to them. However, we still have a few detached and flailing additions to the game (CQC and Powerplay) that may indicate that they don't always manage to pioneer.
I think nobody ever seriously expected perfection from FD, but not even making an effort... nope, that will not do.
Javert
Volunteer Moderator
Yes that's the one
I do actually feel VERY sorry for them for that. Months of hard work, a lot of smart innovation and I bet they were really excited to do that reveal - I would be. They deserve to feel good about that work and what theyre achieving and all those unspoken names have their moment of glory. This has clouded it. But then, I do think its a big deal. It's one of those seemingly small things which is actually one of the bigger game-breakers. Other features are naturally in-world. This is the only one that sticks out like a sore thumb.
Either way, I do feel for those hard workers who may feel a little put out their due praise and workload has been a little lost to this one player issue.
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Time only flows one way unfortunately so that really doesnt work. Being able to make time flow forward and backward at will would be just as whimsical of as ship transfers right?
The idea that this will somehow become game breaking is firmly seated in the minds of the people who are of that current opinion. People who start the game in 6 months won't even know the game existed without it.
Technically possible and fun for a large audience are 2 different things entirely. You can make a game that is fun and appeals to a large audience and spread the cost of development over a large group of people. The game that has a large audience has a better chance at success.
If you create a game that appeals to a very small group of people that like games that are exacting, difficult, and time consuming, then it will more than likely fail. It most commonly fails because the price piont to get into new game is huge in comparison. See Warhammer and the rest of GWs lines if you would like to see a real world example. I see that happen probably 5 to 10 times a year with new games in my local table top gaming shops. The scope gets too large and specialized and the game fails.
I am just saying Elite and FE2 still exist. You can play them. Heck, No Mans Sky just came out and it sounds like you should be playing that. Minus ever getting out of your ship that is.
However I do understand the idea of 8 large galaxies being cool and fun if you were in a game where you could control time. The timeline could move ever forward and it would not affect anyone else due to it being single player game. Otherwise you are left with Eve Online where a large portion of the game is played in AFK or not logged in at all. Set course and check back in 2 weeks.
The concept that Games in space must take huge amounts of time for everything is boring and outdated. If I want to experience that I load up single player RPGs and strategy games. If we kept the game at the same pace and never changed a thing from this point forward then we will have finally have explored 1/60th of the Galaxy in about 500 years or so real time. I dont have that long to live so I would like it to move along a bit quicker.
All this boils down to is that people dont like change and are unwilling or are incapable of imagining that a change could be for the better. They arent even willing to let the change occur before they judge the decision as wrong.
The people who are unwilling are just stubborn and are here for the argument. Simple as that.
The incapable are the ones who are here who cant think beyond their own experiences within this game. They cant imagine a better game because right now everything works for them the way it is. Its easier for them because they dont have to learn anything new.
The idea that this will somehow become game breaking is firmly seated in the minds of the people who are of that current opinion. People who start the game in 6 months won't even know the game existed without it.
Technically possible and fun for a large audience are 2 different things entirely. You can make a game that is fun and appeals to a large audience and spread the cost of development over a large group of people. The game that has a large audience has a better chance at success.
If you create a game that appeals to a very small group of people that like games that are exacting, difficult, and time consuming, then it will more than likely fail. It most commonly fails because the price piont to get into new game is huge in comparison. See Warhammer and the rest of GWs lines if you would like to see a real world example. I see that happen probably 5 to 10 times a year with new games in my local table top gaming shops. The scope gets too large and specialized and the game fails.
I am just saying Elite and FE2 still exist. You can play them. Heck, No Mans Sky just came out and it sounds like you should be playing that. Minus ever getting out of your ship that is.
However I do understand the idea of 8 large galaxies being cool and fun if you were in a game where you could control time. The timeline could move ever forward and it would not affect anyone else due to it being single player game. Otherwise you are left with Eve Online where a large portion of the game is played in AFK or not logged in at all. Set course and check back in 2 weeks.
The concept that Games in space must take huge amounts of time for everything is boring and outdated. If I want to experience that I load up single player RPGs and strategy games. If we kept the game at the same pace and never changed a thing from this point forward then we will have finally have explored 1/60th of the Galaxy in about 500 years or so real time. I dont have that long to live so I would like it to move along a bit quicker.
All this boils down to is that people dont like change and are unwilling or are incapable of imagining that a change could be for the better. They arent even willing to let the change occur before they judge the decision as wrong.
The people who are unwilling are just stubborn and are here for the argument. Simple as that.
The incapable are the ones who are here who cant think beyond their own experiences within this game. They cant imagine a better game because right now everything works for them the way it is. Its easier for them because they dont have to learn anything new.
Any TL;DR ? Because honestly I almost fell asleep after two lines. No disrespect, but I mean, c'mon dude ...
I concur. Fdev brought this down on themselves, but it still sucks. If you set this one feature aside, 2.2 looks really awesome...but that's not what anybody is talking about (or at least anything constructive is being drowned out). Honestly, I haven't thought about the good bits of 2.2 and the future of ED at all since the announcement of insta travel, and that's just terrible, basically the opposite of what Fdev was trying to accomplish with the Gamescon presentation.
There are plenty of people at Fdev who don't mock a big part of what I've loved about Elite for the last year and a half, and I'm glad that you took a moment to call that out, Sans
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Michael Brookes
Game Director
Yes, we take note of what is discussed. If there was something new to post on the topic then we would, but I think Sandy has already covered it. If anything changes, we'll post accordingly.
Michael
Thank you for popping in Michael, much appreciated.
I've addressed this in other similar threads, but I'll say it again here for the record.
I don't mind the idea of a time-delay to have a ship moved from Point A to Point B.
I would also welcome missions "Take my ship from Point A to Point B", as these would give CMDRs an opportunity to pilot other sorts of ships, and could also be used as a means to award CMDRs with special craft.
Consider this situation:
You take a Pilot My Ship mission, 3 jumps out, you get a Mission Update: "Sorry I didn't mention this CMDR, but I have been targeted by assassins. Since I used you to facilitate my escape, please keep my ship as compensation, assuming you survive. Good Luck CMDR!"
I don't mind the idea of a time-delay to have a ship moved from Point A to Point B.
I would also welcome missions "Take my ship from Point A to Point B", as these would give CMDRs an opportunity to pilot other sorts of ships, and could also be used as a means to award CMDRs with special craft.
Consider this situation:
You take a Pilot My Ship mission, 3 jumps out, you get a Mission Update: "Sorry I didn't mention this CMDR, but I have been targeted by assassins. Since I used you to facilitate my escape, please keep my ship as compensation, assuming you survive. Good Luck CMDR!"
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Thank you Michael.