Is the lack of real content why FD have sacrificed galactic scale?

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I think it is all about accepting that ED is a game, and not ultimate 'living space life yo in all grainest detail' game, but something regular people can try to play too.
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Thats the issue, there is a certain subset of players that are way too emotionally invested in the game, DB and Frontier at this point that they can no longer think straight.

Now I understand that, as when the Kickstarter appeared I too got emotionally caught up in it, I mean if you were of a certain age group then you would. A new Elite game after 20 years? It was going to be glorious. Pretty soon after the Kickstarter campaign started though it was obvious even then that ED was not going to be the game I was hoping it to be. Once I got over that fact it was fine. Unfortunately some here don't seem to be able to do that.

Also when people talk about the game not following DB's 'vision' they are dead wrong because DB's vision of Elite 4 as it was called back then was always an Elite MMO, and thats what we have (more or less).
 
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But their previous design philosophy landed us with and infuriating Powerplay grind and a hellish grind for Engineers.

I guess it's a "pick your poison" to the nay-sayers, but I don't mind this user-centered design at all.

I have no problem with user centered design either, but every poll I've seen on this forum says over 75% os voters are against instant transfer. Everyone agrees that ship transfer is a good thing, just that the mechanics should fit in with the rest of the universe design.

How can ignoring your user base be user centered design?
 
Thats the issue, there is a certain subset of players that are way too emotionally invested in the game, DB and Frontier at this point that they can no longer think straight.

Now I understand that, as when the Kickstarter appeared I too got emotionally caught up in it, I mean if you were of a certain age group then you would. A new Elite game after 20 years? It was going to be glorious. Pretty soon after the Kickstarter campaign started though it was obvious even then that ED was not going to be the game I was hoping it to be. Once I got over that fact it was fine. Unfortunately some here don't seem to be able to do that.

Also when people talk about the game not following DB's 'vision' they are dead wrong because DB's vision of Elite 4 as it was called back then was always an Elite MMO, and thats what we have (more or less).

You guys keep dancing around the issue and putting it down to people having a problem about immersion. I couldn't give a rats behind about immersion.

The real issue is the practical effect it is going to have on other game mechanics FD have already installed in the game. ie. the part of the game this new change stands to break of which there are many as has been pointed out in this thread many times.

This game which I may add I see the same people only previous to Gamescom were defending as being perfect the way it was? Now they are defending this change as perfect the way it is? What does that tell us?

These changes stand to break all the balancing FD has done with their ships jump ranges from day 1. In fact, the whole point of even bothering to put anything other than a class 1 E FSD in any ship other than an asp is made pointless by this change.

That is only the very basics of the effect this change will have. If you want to learn more, scroll back through the post where I explain it more extensively. I just don't have the energy right now to type it again.
 
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It does seem that the scale of the Galaxy has lead to this knee-jerk solution. There is a valid issue that they're trying to address. The feeling of realistic galactic scale and its science based approach is the USP for the Elite franchise and why we are attracted to it. However, the lack of content has meant too much tedium for many players. I totally get that.


The issue is that there isn't enough to do in local areas. There are different careers to pursue and we switch between them to keep things interesting. Each career needs a ship tailored to the role and so we end up with at least 4 or 5 ships. The development process has been focused on making the game enjoyable and interesting and so they have introduced various activities such as landing on planets, powerplay, engineers etc, all of which I mostly ignored. Wings added a way to team up with your friends and have fun. The issue then is that you're light years away from your friends and so are your ships. So here we are with teleportation and the loss of that special USP.


This has come to pass, in my opinion, because the development team have been looking for alternatives instead of addressing the actual problem. Lack of local content. I've always believed that this would come in time, now I'm not so sure.


They need to get a team together to review how this works. I'd like to see hubs for activity spread around the bubble. I'd like to see faction allegiances mean something, allied with one means that you are a target for another (yes like powerplay but in the main game). Pirating would cease to be random and allegiances would mean better prices or access to this that or the other. I'd like to see factions control regions of space and for that mean something. Perhaps each hub could have a story arc of some sort. Federation and Imperial space should be practically mutually exclusive. Accessible but hostile if you cross the border.


The point is that player groups would base themselves in these hubs until they're finished and move/defect to another. They would then never be too far apart and be able to team up in a few jumps for that fun. The universe would remain large, rich and exciting. I think this is what we all signed up for at the beginning.

I must admit I'm confused that 18+ months into the game so much effort has been dedicated to content that doesn't actually deepen the gameplay and background sim. For example 2.1 simply gives us 25% more pewpew to do what we're already doing. 2.2 will give us an additional fighter to do what we were already doing. 2.3 will allow a group of us on a single ship to do what we were already doing...

Passenger transport offered a glimmer of hope of new gameplay, but it appears it's basically just cargo transportation under another guise.


I recall DB's Kickstart sales pitch, implying the background sim and mechanics would be deep enough such that CMDRs could explore the galaxy, find rich areas of resources, mine it themselves or sell the details, and if it was prolific enough, platforms and stations and traffic would follow... Why are we still not moving towards that yet?

Do you recall the capital ship battle promo video from three years ago? Where is the depth that suggested would be in the game?

So here we are 18+ months into the game, with time being dedicated to CQC, increasing your pewpew by 25%, etc etc... Yet mining, piracy and crime and punishment etc all get ignored...

Yes it's great station look better. Yes it's lovely I can hear radio coms when approaching them. And it's nice I can see my target star in the distance when hyperspacing... But I'd forgoe all that just for some deeper gameplay/mechanics.

I've sort of given up hope for Season 2, and setting my sights on 3 now...
 
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Let me just say, filling the galaxy is not that hard, if you do it right and get the core mechanics in place first.

Core mechanics are,

1) How to get around
2) How fast can the player get around
3) The options given to the player while he or she gets around

4) fill the Galaxy with stuff.
 
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These changes stand to break all the balancing FD has done with their ships jump ranges from day 1. In fact, the whole point of even bothering to put anything other than a class 1 E FSD in any ship other than an asp is made pointless by this change.

I understand this thinking, but surely - ignoring the instant transportation - it's no different to flying your ship to a destination and swapping out its CLASS 4 FSD for a CLASS 1 one?

ie: You can do the same at the moment in effect?

Personally I'm not too against instant transport. However, I'd prefer it if:-
- instant transport was very expensive.
- there was the option for delayed transport which was far cheaper (where ETA minutes = DistanceInLY/MaxJumpRange)
- there was a max range applied to each of these
 
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You guys keep dancing around the issue and putting it down to people having a problem about immersion. I couldn't give a rats behind about immersion.

The real issue is the practical effect it is going to have on other game mechanics FD have already installed in the game. ie. the part of the game this new change stands to break of which there are many as has been pointed out in this thread many times.

This game which I may add I see the same people only previous to Gamescom were defending as being perfect the way it was? Now they are defending this change as perfect the way it is? What does that tell us?

These changes stand to break all the balancing FD has done with their ships jump ranges from day 1. In fact, the whole point of even bothering to put anything other than a class 1 E FSD in any ship other than an asp is made pointless by this change.

That is only the very basics of the effect this change will have. If you want to learn more, scroll back through the post where I explain it more extensively. I just don't have the energy right now to type it again.

Im not going to get pulled back to the ship transfer discussion as this is not what this thread is about ... Keep it on topic.

With every patch there will be effects on the BGS and the game moving forward. That will be the case for every patch that comes out. 2.2 will add a load of new gameplay elements and yet everyone is getting hung up on one entirely optional feature.

As stated people are losing their **** over stuff and getting way over emotional with all of this. When 2.2 drops it will (mostly) be forgotten about, if people cannot get over that, thats their lookout.
 
I understand this thinking, but surely - ignoring the instant transportation - no different to flying your ship to a destination and swapping out its CLASS 4 FSD for a CLASS 1 one?

ie: You can do the same at the moment in effect?
No you really can't. It would be essentially similar but more convenient if there was a realistic time delay for the ships to arrive, but instant changes everything. The ships are very different from one another. If you can suddenly swap between them at will it makes this into a completely different game.
 

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
I understand this thinking, but surely - ignoring the instant transportation - it's no different to flying your ship to a destination and swapping out its CLASS 4 FSD for a CLASS 1 one?

That may give you a problem if there's no class 4 when you come to leave and it's a fair hop to get out. It's another bit of thinking and planning removed.
 
I must admit I'm confused that 18+ months into the game so much effort has been dedicated to content that doesn't actually deepen the gameplay and background sim. For example 2.1 simply gives us 25% more pewpew to do what we're already doing. 2.2 will give us an additional fighter to do what we were already doing. 2.3 will allow a group of us on a single ship to do what we were already doing...

Passenger transport offered a glimmer of hope of new gameplay, but it appears it's basically just cargo transportation under another guise.


I recall DB's Kickstart sales pitch, implying the background sim and mechanics would be deep enough such that CMDRs could explore the galaxy, find rich areas of resources, mine it themselves or sell the details, and if it was prolific enough, platforms and stations and traffic would follow... Why are we still not moving towards that yet?

Do you recall the capital ship battle promo video from three years ago? Where is the depth that suggested would be in the game?

So here we are 18+ months into the game, with time being dedicated to CQC, increasing your pewpew by 25%, etc etc... Yet mining, piracy and crime and punishment etc all get ignored...

Yes it's great station look better. Yes it's lovely I can hear radio coms when approaching them. And it's nice I can see my target star in the distance when hyperspacing... But I'd forgoe all that just for some deeper gameplay/mechanics.

I've sort of given up hope for Season 2, and setting my sights on 3 now...

Exactly this, but I fear the answer to your question is they simply don't have the mney and resources to dedicate to it. Instead, they decide "what can we get away with doing and feasibly get done?" That becomes what you see in each update. 2.2 has a lot of that stuff. I don't see huge amounts of time being spent on creating ship transfer, reskinned cargo missions, course plotting on the star map, ship paintjobs or module storage. The only meaty work I see in 2.2 is ship fighters and maybe the VIP passenger missions.

FD has looked at what they think they can get done in the time frame and since they are now a far cry from the 4 releases in a year model they had hoped for with Horizons have a lot of catching up to do. I suspect some of these work light features may be there to buy them time to catch up.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Im not going to get pulled back to the ship transfer discussion as this is not what this thread is about ... Keep it on topic.

With every patch there will be effects on the BGS and the game moving forward. That will be the case for every patch that comes out. 2.2 will add a load of new gameplay elements and yet everyone is getting hung up on one entirely optional feature.

As stated people are losing their **** over stuff and getting way over emotional with all of this. When 2.2 drops it will (mostly) be forgotten about, if people cannot get over that, thats their lookout.

I am not seeing a load of new game play elements?

Effects of the BGS? Erm, no. The best you can hope for is that the BGS will spawn a different deck of passenger missions depending on state. It will have an effect on the missions, the missions themselves will have no effect on it in any other way than the existing missions already do.

Please, do go on...
 
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And in case the galaxy gets filled up with additional content (second bubble, alien areas), this gets even more important to prevent ghost areas where noone ever goes because the stuff you can do there isnt suited for the ships that can get there.

But we want those ghost areas where only few can be bothered to go. The galaxy is actually very big and that is what makes it interesting.

My post wasn't against teleportation, it was about why it is necessary. Please argue about teleportation in that threadnaught.
 
I have no problem with user centered design either, but every poll I've seen on this forum says over 75% os voters are against instant transfer. Everyone agrees that ship transfer is a good thing, just that the mechanics should fit in with the rest of the universe design.

How can ignoring your user base be user centered design?
Or to put it another way, about half of voters think transport should either be instant or have a negligible delay.

And it's not "ignoring your user base", it's "ignoring the tiny portion of your user base that's a) got a forum account and b) have bothered to vote in this poll", both of which are parameters that are going to oversample grognard-y hardest-of-the-hardcore players.
 
Is the lack of real content why FD have sacrificed galactic scale?


What do you mean by "lack of real content".
I the game lacked "real content" then I would not have been able to enjoy myself for almost 2000 hours.
 
I understand this thinking, but surely - ignoring the instant transportation - it's no different to flying your ship to a destination and swapping out its CLASS 4 FSD for a CLASS 1 one?

ie: You can do the same at the moment in effect?

Personally I'm not too against instant transport. However, I'd prefer it if:-
- instant transport was very expensive.
- there was the option for delayed transport which was far cheaper (where ETA minutes = DistanceInLY/MaxJumpRange)
- there was a max range applied to each of these

There is a difference.

The difference is that everyone will travel everywhere in an Asp as it makes the most sense to do so.

Every other ships will just need to be fitted with a rubbish FSD because all you need to do is cast your summon ship spell on arrival.

All the power balancing FD did regarding ships such as the Eagle for example is now pointless. You dont need an FSD anymore. You can now spend all those power points on other things. You can just asp your way around the game pulling you magic bag of ships with you. The traffic reports will now no longer read the solid information they once did to those who use them (and there are people wjo read them). The combat zones will become all filled with the same ships. Community goals will be filled with all of the same ships. All the variety that stood to enrich the game will suddenly be sucked out of it and replaced with all the same elements. Nothing will be random about it anymore.The Asp will become the main ship and everything else reduced to a utility to get a job done. Quality outfitting in star ports is now irrelevant. It doesn't matter how good or bad it is where you are. Simply pop over to Arth and upgrade all your ships. More balancing and work down the tubes...

Does this enrich the game for you?

Is it a price worth paying for insta-travel?
 
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No you really can't. It would be essentially similar but more convenient if there was a realistic time delay for the ships to arrive, but instant changes everything. The ships are very different from one another. If you can suddenly swap between them at will it makes this into a completely different game.

That may give you a problem if there's no class 4 when you come to leave and it's a fair hop to get out. It's another bit of thinking and planning removed.
There is a difference.

The difference is that everyone will travel everywhere in an Asp as it makes the most sense to do so.<snip>

OK! I can agree with that!

After reading a load more comments I think I'm coming back down on the side of ship transportation should require a travel time. ie: Something along the lines of ETA Minutes = DistanceInLY/MaxJumpRange

So you order your Vulture and Anaconda to your current location, and they both then appear in your current Ship Yard, but cannot be accessed as the Vulture has an ETA of 12 mintues, and the the Anaconda 2 minutes...


It's still quicker and more convenient than having to go and get them (in person). Gives a nod to realism.


Would you see this preventing the obvious outcome of everyone simply flying around in uber jump range ships to a new location, and then summoning their craft of real choice? Would you perceive the time delay needing to be long enough so as to possible nerf this outcome?


ps: We're taking this post off topic - Soz!
 
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I would mostly agree with your post but when I read that section I said to myself: ''well, why not join Powerplay then, and have this sense of locality or of attachment to a large faction?''. I once joined powerplay for a few days but I figured out the interdictions were just too much for me because not only I had the pirates but also the opposing powers chasing me. Yes I would agree that power play needs some re-balancing or fine-tuning maybe but what you essentially ask here is to bring something like super-power play into the main game. Sorry but No.

I tried powerplay but did not have the time to meet the weekly targets so I left. Powerplay seems to me to be the best attempt to bring the galaxy to life but because it is separated from the main game it has failed. I would like to see a well thought out version integrated into the main game. All factions being part of it. You pick your base of operations, with all your mates, and you enjoy the content rich aspect of the locality. You become allied with some factions, enemeies of others. Hostile space becomes like low sec space, friendly space the opposite. If you prefer not to get emorobiled you ally yourself with neutral factions etc.

Result :


  • Loads of fun nearby, wing up with your mates against rival factions etc..
  • Long range trade/smuggling/missions involve plotting routes through friendly space or take the risks
  • Remaining neutral to avoid complications
  • The galaxy becomes more varied and a interesting "landscape" develops
  • Combat Zones mean something because the result matters.
 
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