The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?

[-VR- Max Factor]

But would have complicated development for a low priority feature, this way we were able to slip it into 2.2 - otherwise it might have been further into the future. Besides delay impacts the point of the feature and that is to allow greater use of people's ships.

Michael

But it breaks missions, CZ and the consquence's of flying the ship you want to fly. After 2.2 I will get my dedicated ships and be in a Hauler until I need these ships. It is doing the total opposite of what you want.

The best option would be to give all ships a good jump range as you are pretty much destroying jump range as being a feature in certain ships.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

But would have complicated development for a low priority feature, this way we were able to slip it into 2.2 - otherwise it might have been further into the future. Besides delay impacts the point of the feature and that is to allow greater use of people's ships.

Michael

It may be low priority but it is high impact as seen by the response. Please reconsider.
I'm yet to be convinced that adding a new type of Transaction Tab timer can be that complicated.

 

[Javert]

And there are quite a few people saying the opposite.

I haven't seen many but please feel free to link them.

 

[Slopey]

As mentioned earlier the point is better enable players to use their range of ships more effectively.

Michael

By completely removing the concept of the range of the ships themselves?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It may be low priority but it is high impact as seen by the response. Please reconsider.
I'm yet to be convinced that adding a new type of Transaction Tab timer can be that complicated.

It needs new transfer database with timers to check out, code to maintain, etc. for feature used by few. Not worth the cost from grander scale of things POV.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

uhm...no. The buyer would pay market value for the goods in addition to the price to 3D print them (which also has a cost). So it would be more expensive. Still cheaper to have pilots haul.

In a 3D printing world the buyer pays for raw materials and 3D printing.
This is cheaper than buying the produced good because that's why 3D printing becomes ubiquitous.

 

[Michael Brookes]

It doesn't though. It created specialised ships and a taxi ship that will take you around the bubble. We have enough freedom as it is. We have multirole ships that can do a bit of combat, trading end exploration at a cost, we have dedicated combat and trade ships with drawbacks.

These drawbacks is what makes flying these ships unique and different. You will be virtually taking away the role of the multirole ship and just having dedicated specialist ships instead. For combat everyone will have a FDL, Vulture or any other of the dedicated combat ships as there will not be a reason to fly a python for combat anymore as your combat ships will be on instant standby.

I am sorry to say this, but I can see the opposite happeing. Only certain ships will be CZ's and the same for CG's etc.

For CZ's that's most often the case anyway - although you'll still have variety because people prefer ships for different reasons.

For trading there's no transfer of cargo, so you'd still have to pilot them as normal. What this does it limit the need for ferrying trips.

Michael

 

[Kitster]

But would have complicated development for a low priority feature, this way we were able to slip it into 2.2 - otherwise it might have been further into the future. Besides delay impacts the point of the feature and that is to allow greater use of people's ships.

Michael

For such a low priority feature it has sure has a disproportionately negative effect on the FSD / Jump range mechanic. Now even the most asthmatic combat wagon can move around the bubble at the seep of Asp. I remember when the FdL came out and the massive outcry at its abysmal jump capability; FD resisted changing it as it was argued it was a vital balancing factor for such a powerful and agile ship.

 

[Michael Brookes]

But it breaks missions, CZ and the consquence's of flying the ship you want to fly. After 2.2 I will get my dedicated ships and be in a Hauler until I need these ships. It is doing the total opposite of what you want.

The best option would be to give all ships a good jump range as you are pretty much destroying jump range as being a feature in certain ships.

How does it break missions?

Michael

 

[Ziljan]

In this instance the convenience was the overriding factor. That and keeping the feature within a sensible budget - complicating it unnecessarily introduces more points of failure and for a relatively small quality of life improvement, it's not worth the risk. The instant transfer also provides positive aspects to how players can interact the game - it gives them greater freedom to participate in wider aspects in what's going on. We did of course consider the downsides, and other ways of doing it - Sandy in fact was very much in favour of a delay, but it was felt that this weakened the utility of the feature. The point was to allow more freedom with ship use, not add additional barriers.

Michael

If the point was to to "add more freedom of ship use" then why do ships have different ranges in the first place? Why essentially incentivize using long range ships. Now I'll be yanked out of my FDL every time I want to go to the Pleiades.

All of my hard work on increasing my FDL jump range is nixed because the range can't complete with my new Hauler Shuttle Bus, which I'll essentially be required to jump into now. Yes I realize I'm complaining that you're effectively increasing my FDLs jump range, by you're also yanking me out if it each time I travel, which is going to get irritating in short order.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

In a 3D printing world the buyer pays for raw materials and 3D printing.
This is cheaper than buying the produced good because that's why 3D printing becomes ubiquitous.

3D printing world doesn't mean everyone owns tech. It means there are more suppliers in general. Doesn't mean regular Joe own such tech.

 

[FX2K]

I'm in the camp that it should take time, but I can see it from both sides.. so why don't FD give us options, options are good.

When ordering your ship, you get to choose how its delivered:

1. Transfer takes time, i.e (distance / range ) * 1-2 ... result in mins of transfer time. - Free or drastically reduced price.
2. Transfer is instant - Costs are at a premium, depending on range etc.

Of course, this doesn't solve all the points people have raised on the transfers, was just a thought..

 

[Michael Brookes]

For such a low priority feature it has sure has a disproportionately negative effect on the FSD / Jump range mechanic. Now even the most asthmatic combat wagon can move around the bubble at the seep of Asp. I remember when the FdL came out and the massive outcry at its abysmal jump capability; FD resisted changing it as it was argued it was a vital balancing factor for such a powerful and agile ship.

Not really - you still need to travel - and the availability of shipyards are a relatively small part of the galaxy. Yes it will shake things up in colonised space (it's meant to), but there's lots going elsewhere which require the usual travel mechanics.

Michael

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

In this instance the convenience was the overriding factor. That and keeping the feature within a sensible budget - complicating it unnecessarily introduces more points of failure and for a relatively small quality of life improvement, it's not worth the risk. The instant transfer also provides positive aspects to how players can interact the game - it gives them greater freedom to participate in wider aspects in what's going on. We did of course consider the downsides, and other ways of doing it - Sandy in fact was very much in favour of a delay, but it was felt that this weakened the utility of the feature. The point was to allow more freedom with ship use, not add additional barriers.

Michael

I think that postponing the feature intill it was thought out properly would have been the better bet. People only fly combat ships because they only want to do combat, the same for trade and exploration, and people fly multirole ships because they want to do a bit of everything.

Instant travel vitually removes the use of multirole ships, they will no be needed anymore it will be specialist ships only.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

3D printing world doesn't mean everyone owns tech. It means there are more suppliers in general. Doesn't mean regular Joe own such tech.

I didn't say that they did. The cost of 3D printing may well be the cost of using a printer that somebody else owns.
The argument still stands that the viability of 3D printing stands on the basis of it being cheaper than buying the manufactured article.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Not really - you still need to travel - and the availability of shipyards are a relatively small part of the galaxy. Yes it will shake things up in colonised space (it's meant to), but there's lots going elsewhere which require the usual travel mechanics.

Michael

There are shipyards all over the shop. As long as there is one nearby to your goal it is still the same issue.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

To be fair Michael - I would vote for delay too. Allow transfer of modules as temporary solution.

I think huge point is - people wanted *module storage*. They didn't ask for ship transfer to come at 2.2 to be frank. If ship transfer properly implemented needs more time - it is worth to delay it.

 

[Sardu]

I think that postponing the feature intill it was thought out properly would have been the better bet. People only fly combat ships because they only want to do combat, the same for trade and exploration, and people fly multirole ships because they want to do a bit of everything.

Instant travel vitually removes the use of multirole ships, they will no be needed anymore it will be specialist ships only.

Do you not see that it's insulting to tell the designer this "wasn't thought out properly" simply because you don't like it?

 

[CaptainKremmen]

In this instance the convenience was the overriding factor. That and keeping the feature within a sensible budget - complicating it unnecessarily introduces more points of failure and for a relatively small quality of life improvement, it's not worth the risk. The instant transfer also provides positive aspects to how players can interact the game - it gives them greater freedom to participate in wider aspects in what's going on. We did of course consider the downsides, and other ways of doing it - Sandy in fact was very much in favour of a delay, but it was felt that this weakened the utility of the feature. The point was to allow more freedom with ship use, not add additional barriers.

Michael

But would have complicated development for a low priority feature, this way we were able to slip it into 2.2 - otherwise it might have been further into the future. Besides delay impacts the point of the feature and that is to allow greater use of people's ships.

Michael

Called it.


Honestly, FD took all this time to build up a 1:1 galaxy, dozens of ships with different jump range characteristics, a consistent travel/distance/time doctrine...

...and then fumbles a lowest-possible-dev-effort "feature", which takes all that hard-won doctrine, and cuts it off at the knees.


It was instant because it was quick and dirty.

NOT because the galaxy just invented insta-ship-printing.
Or because pilots couldn't possibly live without zero-second transit times.
Or because "licenses".
Or because really fast mega transport ship networks.
Or because <whatever other invented reason> popped into discussions to paper over the giant cracks showing.



I mean, not even the devs themselves sound assured and confident about all these wacky possible ways it could work...


"Once you've accepted that it's instant, it's not really worth worrying too much about the details of how the ship got there" - Sandro Sammarco

"Besides in this case the convenience of the feature means that a little look away is required" - Michael Brookes



Terrible.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Not really - you still need to travel - and the availability of shipyards are a relatively small part of the galaxy. Yes it will shake things up in colonised space (it's meant to), but there's lots going elsewhere which require the usual travel mechanics.

Michael

The availability of shipyards may be required for the transport mechanism, but the mechanism itself makes most of these shipyards irrelevant.
No-one will be buying ships there or outfitting them there unless they offer a discount and all modules.