The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?

[Lobstris]

I see that people don't get that printing thing, which is a shame as it is used quite a bit anyway - for example food cartridges. We can review and change if needed, to be honest the feature is what is important in this instance. Yes, I appreciate the difference in scale, and as I mentioned before we're not talking about a single machine that just spits out a ship, it combines more economical processes as well.

The thing about 'printing' that I can't get my head round (aside from the scale of the technology, and the fact that it makes technology-based commodities trading redundant), is that it's producing a copy of something from a template. That means, if I 'transfer' my ship, I've actually now got two of that ship. If I transfer again there will be three etc. etc.

Spaceports would quickly be rammed full of unwanted ship copies. Also, why have the Pilot's Federation, when stations would be giving all of these unwanted ships away to passers-by just to keep the bays clear?

 

[Jack Schitt]

I see that people don't get that printing thing, which is a shame as it is used quite a bit anyway - for example food cartridges. We can review and change if needed, to be honest the feature is what is important in this instance. Yes, I appreciate the difference in scale, and as I mentioned before we're not talking about a single machine that just spits out a ship, it combines more economical processes as well.

I echo what others have said; thanks again for taking the time to reply and in accepting that so many of us have issue with the 3D printing thing. While not the absolute line in the sand I might have liked, this shows there is still wiggle room in the justification even if not in the implementation. And it thankfully means that the clarifying Yet Another Thread I suggested earlier probably won't be needed.

As for me having no soul - that's probably true.

Michael how you compare food cartridges to interstellar space ships is beyond me and all i can think now is edible space ships.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Had a non-mod started this thread, I have to assume it would have been merged with the threadnaught, which is still the least bad approach, given where we are.

I started this thread with the intention of it discussing the larger issue - that the huge galaxy creates barriers to gameplay - not as another insta-transfer thread....

 

[Kicks]

I started this thread with the intention of it discussing the larger issue - that the huge galaxy creates barriers to gameplay - not as another insta-transfer thread....

To get your "soon-to-be-threadnaught" back on track...

With the inclusion of instant transfer (whether one likes it or not is irrelavent to this post!), I think they don't need to do much more as the universe - whilst still large - is now more accessible.

When events unfold in different regions, you only have to get there once. So, there's still a journey there - there's still whatever number of jumps (and risks whilst going there - probably not in a combat-orientated ship). And then once you're there, you can partake in the ship(s) of your choosing.

I think, down the road, it'll all pan out - and don't see any other things they'd need to add to make it more accessible - I think this ship transfer will do that.

 

[Lobstris]

"loss of ship diversity"... everyone flies the same 5 ships anyway (possibly with the same 5 loadouts), what diversity exactly?

And that's another issue. I'd welcome more variants of ships, and ships with the same stats as other, just to get some more variety into the universe. E.g. have another "Python", with the same internals or whatever, but with different cockpit and external model call it the "Boa". I do appreciate that's a heck of a lot more work for the modellers to cater for aesthetics, and doesn't necessarily make more revenue, rather than just adding more ship kits to the store, which do the same thing to a more limited extent.

 

[Corvos]

We will be given the ability to transfer any of our ships to our current dock in 2.2 - there will be no delay in this transfer as the Developers have done some testing and any delay at all was considered to be too much of an impediment to gameplay.

In the recent Gamescom streams a recurring theme was that of "lowering the barriers to gameplay".

It would appear that travelling back to the location of a stored ship to fetch it back to one's location takes too much time and is therefore a barrier to gameplay that is unacceptable in the eyes of the Developers (and a large number of players, of course).

In a game where we have been given, to the best of the abilities of the Developers, a 1:1 interpretation of the our galaxy - with hundreds of billions of stars it seems that the size of the galaxy itself would now appear to be a problem to solve in the eyes of the Developers.

It will be interesting to see what further concessions to convenience we are given in future releases that will facilitate the multi-player aspect of the game.

Does this surprise you? They have not fixed combat logging, they added in Private Groups and now ship teleportation.

When in reality if they up the danger level and multiplayer aspects that added more to the immersion of the game they would make more money.

I bet we will be seeing ships purchased in their store in the very near future.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I started this thread with the intention of it discussing the larger issue - that the huge galaxy creates barriers to gameplay - not as another insta-transfer thread....

You can't get away from the fact that insta-transfer and the size of the galaxy - and the proposed "3D printer lore" - are inter-related, and naturally, that will get discussed here - I was a bit annoyed at the earlier directive, I'll admit. In fact you can't really have a meaningful discussion about the apparent shrinking size of the galaxy without considering insta-transport.

 

[Michael Brookes]

To get back on topic - I wouldn't say it's an inconvenient - far from it. It is certainly a challenge though, but it's always been a core part of the design.

Michael

 

[Robert Maynard]

Does this surprise you? They have not fixed combat logging, they added in Private Groups and now ship teleportation.

Frontier did not "add in" Private Groups any more than they "added in" Open.... All three game modes were announced at the start of the Kickstarter.

 

[Lobstris]

+++ please stay on topic, everybody.

to discuss instant ship transfer: yay or nay go here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Instant-Ship-and-Module-Transport-Yay-or-Nay. this is also the best place for witty remarks, and sarcastic replicated 3D printed comments.

please keep this discussion on the size of the galaxy, its consequences for gameplay, and the future of this game after instant transport is a thing, and size of galaxy is considered a barrier to gameplay. +++

goemon, with all due respect, this is the thread that seems to be generating relevant discussion and responses from Frontier through Mike on both issues.

(Anyway, I'm off to a music festival to talk to real people, drink beer and increase the pain of my tinnitus. Could you all please try not to break Elite, start World War III and bring about the Apocalypse whist I'm gone? Ta.)

 

[Robert Maynard]

To get back on topic - I wouldn't say it's an inconvenient - far from it. It is certainly a challenge though, but it's always been a core part of the design.

Michael

The simple scale of the Galaxy can make meeting up with other players a time-sink - there have been many complaints regarding the time it takes to just get to the same system as another player to be able to join a Wing.

With Multi-Crew not too far away, I expect the same complaints to be made regarding travelling to join the ship to be crewed - unless it is in some way speeded up by a new feature.

 

[sgurr]

David is very involved in the development of the game - he sits behind me

As for me having no soul - that's probably true.

Michael

I genuinely admire your response to insults.

Did Cthulhu give you anything in return?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

To get back on topic - I wouldn't say it's an inconvenient - far from it. It is certainly a challenge though, but it's always been a core part of the design.

Michael

I'd go as far to say it was an integral, core part of playing the game - "space is big, really big..." - it forced you to take decisions on what ship you need for a specific Thing. It makes your different ships relevant - you don't normally go taking your Fer de Lance on a massive exploration trip to Beagle Point - not normally anyway - you'd takee a long hard think before doing something like that.

You could argue "well, you'd not take it to Jaques but NOW you can take a 50LY Anaconda, park it at Jaques and insta-transport you Fer de Lance" - so now you'd have a ship half-way across the galaxy that normally you'd think twice about doing. Everything you've been doing in the development of the game now dies a little, IMO.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

With Multi-Crew not too far away, I expect the same complaints to be made regarding travelling to join the ship to be crewed - unless it is in some way speeded up by a new feature.

You mean teleporting the CMDR into a ship from wherever he happens to be?

You may have noticed that I tried, and failed, to get Michael to comment on that one.

 

[Soliluna]

Ah, that's what the wings on the beluga are for. For grabbing hold of while you bite the fuselage.

I look forward to seeing this new ship having sustained irreparable damage from the Imperial Slaves biting their way out of the hold.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

To get back on topic - I wouldn't say it's an inconvenient - far from it. It is certainly a challenge though, but it's always been a core part of the design.

Michael

I think major issue that there's not a lot of things to do system wide. That forces to travel many light years for action. Granted, with QoL/PvE fleshed out this season, it feels more like system becoming alive, but there's so many PvE details you could add just to stick with system alone.

If gameplay forces player to spend considerable time between systems, it can add a bit of tediousness to all of it.

 

[Lobstris]

Now I'm not suggesting Insta-Ship-Transport is the same issue as External View... But I do wonder if there's the risk of similar "doom mongering"?

TBH. Ship transfer strikes me as an issue of similar gravitas, with the same level of doom mongering, to the 'should players appear as hollowed out icons on the scanner issue?', that raged across (at least?) two megathreads back in the DDF days. It had (and still has IMHO) the same level of distortion on player behaviour. And, like that issue, with time it has become de facto accepted that players and NPCs look different.

I can't say I'm happy with how icons on the scanners turned out, (wither transponders Sandro? wither transponders? ) but the game still exists!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

To get back on topic - I wouldn't say it's an inconvenient - far from it. It is certainly a challenge though, but it's always been a core part of the design.

Michael

Then why cheapen it with instant ship teleportation. You are removing a part of that challenge.

 

[Kitster]

I started this thread with the intention of it discussing the larger issue - that the huge galaxy creates barriers to gameplay - not as another insta-transfer thread....

Fair enough, but the transfer mechanic (insta or otherwise) has affected the relative size of the colonised bubble if not the galaxy, and therefore definitely has some relevance to this topic.

 

[lemny]

I am pro instant transfer, because otherwise it leads to "start ship transfer and log of for an hour or so"... gameplay absolutely tops science here...
But for the guys and girls who have problems with the instant thing... can't we simply pretend we gave the transfer order a few hours ago?