The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?

[Bomba Luigi]

Heya Mike,

I assume by the current 'fiction construct' we're thinking about '3d printing' our ships in their hangers or some such. I have to admit that I liked the idea of NPCs transporting our ships in say Lynx Bulk Carriers. Give them an 'advanced' (and crazy large) drive which explains why they can jump so far, so fast. (Possibly the same drive that Capital Ships have, since we see their jump is is incredibly different from our own.) This doesn't fully explain why it is instant, since even if the jump itself was instant the ship being transported would need to undock, fly to the Carrier (parked up near the station), land and then the same in reverse. I recon that'd take me 5 mins easy to do, but frankly I am happy to call 5 minutes 'instant' for the sake of gameplay. Even if we just keep it fiction with no in game representation, having a theoretical carrier would let me pretend that it is still MY ship. Possibly more importantly down the line, it is still my dirty underwear in my cabin in my ship! This is why she has all the bangs and dents she has and she isn't some pristine freshly printed anonymous and replaceable component. Naturally later down the line we could see Bulk Carriers at stations with ships flying to them which would give more life to the space around stations and potentially it could add even more gameplay down the line.

Sincerely, Ben - aka Cmdr Eid LeWeise

They could even have a diffrent jump in animation like Cap ship, so from time to time you go to a station and can witness it

 

[Lobstris]

This gets my vote also!

And my Asp (for transportation). As long as we get the lynx model in game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

How does it break missions?

Michael

It makes the limitations of cargo missions vitually redundent. I turn up at a station with my Cobra, oh there is a nice mission shipping 210 units of cargo to be transported to a place, my Cobra doesn't have that cargo capacity, I insta teleport my cargo ship to my location to take the mission. What is the point of the cargo limitation if it is now redundant.

Most poeple will now be taking missions at places where they can teleport there ship to, the place's where you cannot insta teleport your ship will become virtual graveyards, nobody will bother.

 

[Artie]

Heya Mike,

I assume by the current 'fiction construct' we're thinking about '3d printing' our ships in their hangers or some such. I have to admit that I liked the idea of NPCs transporting our ships in say Lynx Bulk Carriers. Give them an 'advanced' (and crazy large) drive which explains why they can jump so far, so fast. (Possibly the same drive that Capital Ships have, since we see their jump is is incredibly different from our own.) This doesn't fully explain why it is instant, since even if the jump itself was instant the ship being transported would need to undock, fly to the Carrier (parked up near the station), land and then the same in reverse. I recon that'd take me 5 mins easy to do, but frankly I am happy to call 5 minutes 'instant' for the sake of gameplay. Even if we just keep it fiction with no in game representation, having a theoretical carrier would let me pretend that it is still MY ship. Possibly more importantly down the line, it is still my dirty underwear in my cabin in my ship! This is why she has all the bangs and dents she has and she isn't some pristine freshly printed anonymous and replaceable component. Naturally later down the line we could see Bulk Carriers at stations with ships flying to them which would give more life to the space around stations and potentially it could add even more gameplay down the line.

Sincerely, Ben - aka Cmdr Eid LeWeise

Exactly as said, +1. The ship transfer still "shrinks" the galaxy a little bit under some conditions, but the feeling is much better. You then don't feel that the game does something utterly gamey and even relatively fast ship transfer has a somehow believable explanation. If there will be some maximum distance applied (for the fixed-delay transfers), it may also help to counter the feeling that universe is suddenly perceived as smaller. But my personal major issue is that the instant ship transfer is simply unbelievable in the game universe, rather than that I will get my ships somewhere faster. Well, even 30 seconds of waiting for the ship transfer feels better than "instant magic", but that's on a discussion in another thread.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Seems to fit this thread quite well, and you ought to know I restrained myself. To be clear, my ire is not actually directed at you, but is a result of reading this thread. Your post was just a convenient hook to hang my post. Sorry, if I/it came across badly.


As do I, this is why I play Elite and not NMS.


Lost in the big bad thread. Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to laziness.


I do, assuming we're talking fighters now?

Makes perfect sense in that case. We can already 3D print houses - google it - the "printer" does the large sections and then you install pre-fab fittings. The Fighter 3D printer would operate on the same lines. The "restock" loads the complicated pre-fab electronics and hull-ink and then the 3D printer's job is to print the hull itself and with robotic arms etc install the pre-fab components.

If you were talking about 3D printing our main ships as an explanation for ship transfer then see below.


Personally, I don't need a "lore" reason for it, this is a game, we all know it's a game. For the sake of the game itself the transfer should be instant.

The mechanics are really all that concern me. If it's too cheap, for too long a distance (note "too" used here is a relative/subjective term and we're not all going to agree) then it will "break" the game. If they get the balance just right then it will slot into the game and in 3 months no-one will think any more on the subject.

As an aside..

I cannot believe the lack of faith some people (not you) have shown Frontier in this thread. It boggles the mind that anyone would assume Frontier are trying to make a bad game. It boggles the mind yet further that people can accuse them of "not listening", here's a tip for those people; it is not that they're not listening, it's that they don't agree with you! Or, there is a very good technical, or other reason why it cannot be done "right now".

Many of the features in 2.2 are either things they always wanted to add, but had to schedule behind more important features, or they came from player requests. It just takes time for these to percolate through the development process. People need to realise that making games is hard, no matter how easy they make it look sometimes.

But a lot of people including me want the lore to be involved, that is the reason for COMPROMISE. We all get what we want in a somewhat more believable way. Is that not a bad thing. You get the instanat teleport, but only at Hi-Tech stations, there are plenty so shouldn't be a major issue, and agree that the price needs to be right, but they have already said it would be a nominal price.

They have been talking about our main ships being 3D printed at the shipyards, which makes little to no sense in my eyes.

I am not too fussed about the 3D print with the ship board fighters. I prefer a flat pack system myself, but can live with it.

 

[knowles2]

Weakness of Brooks arguments, combine with the fact the feature doesn't fit in with any of the lore, shows this feature has been poorly thought out by frontier and is only being added because of gamers demands, which is never a good way to build a game in my opinion.

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We don't anticipate some of the apocalyptic scenarios being described to oppose this feature - it will change things certainly, but in a positive way. It hasn't reduced the scale of the galaxy, the facility is limited and most of the galaxy doesn't have access, and you still have to make the initial journeys.

Michael

Until people moan about that and you allowed instant transport of players.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Heya Mike,

I assume by the current 'fiction construct' we're thinking about '3d printing' our ships in their hangers or some such. I have to admit that I liked the idea of NPCs transporting our ships in say Lynx Bulk Carriers. Give them an 'advanced' (and crazy large) drive which explains why they can jump so far, so fast. (Possibly the same drive that Capital Ships have, since we see their jump is is incredibly different from our own.) This doesn't fully explain why it is instant, since even if the jump itself was instant the ship being transported would need to undock, fly to the Carrier (parked up near the station), land and then the same in reverse. I recon that'd take me 5 mins easy to do, but frankly I am happy to call 5 minutes 'instant' for the sake of gameplay. Even if we just keep it fiction with no in game representation, having a theoretical carrier would let me pretend that it is still MY ship. Possibly more importantly down the line, it is still my dirty underwear in my cabin in my ship! This is why she has all the bangs and dents she has and she isn't some pristine freshly printed anonymous and replaceable component. Naturally later down the line we could see Bulk Carriers at stations with ships flying to them which would give more life to the space around stations and potentially it could add even more gameplay down the line.

Sincerely, Ben - aka Cmdr Eid LeWeise

+1000 Eid

What I want essentially is:

* Lore done right (no 3D printing, just hauling, supercharged drives, mega service exclusively for Pilot Federation);
* Future profing of this feature (allow in future to introduce 'hey this is CMDR x ship and you have to transport it here' when EVA comes); Or something similar;

 

[knowles2]

So

I see that people don't get that printing thing, which is a shame as it is used quite a bit anyway - for example food cartridges. We can review and change if needed, to be honest the feature is what is important in this instance. Yes, I appreciate the difference in scale, and as I mentioned before we're not talking about a single machine that just spits out a ship, it combines more economical processes as well.

The cost of the feature is also a balance, one that we'll refine through beta. Obviously we need to keep it accessible.

Michael

The problem is if information can be transported from one side of the galaxy to the other, why can't prices of commodities, player communications, and countless other things, because making all this available to the player instantly means people would explore far less and exploring and traveling is one of this game primary activities.

 

[EdzUp]

I want to know can I sit in a ship and transport it to a location instantly?

If this is yes I might buy a spare sidey at place's I want to go and just teleport there this defeating the main purpose of the galaxy and the Jaques bubble as this will just be a small distance if someone has a sidey over there too.

 

[Twisted Melon]

Just thinking on this; how about transport takes as long as it would take to travel yourself - but, you can send the vessel to a destination rather than just call it to the station you're at - that way your ship could be ready and waiting for you in a realistic way - and we get a whole new layer of logistics to think about?

 

[EdzUp]

Just thinking on this; how about transport takes as long as it would take to travel yourself - but, you can send the vessel to a destination rather than just call it to the station you're at - that way your ship could be ready and waiting for you in a realistic way - and we get a whole new layer of logistics to think about?

Excellent idea

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Also I would like to point out that we already have "instant transportation" situation with us in escape pods after ship gettng blown up. We bought that - we will buy ship hauling in mere seconds.

Additionally there's my lore explanation:

Each ship yard has these automated mechanism to deliver ships via huge jumps - process unsurvivable for living human beings. Engine is getting attached to ship, big or small, or they are even stacked together. Then off it goes. It ensures almost instant delivery (but that's why it costs considerably more than fuel used in such travel). If you ask why not cargo delivered that way? In fact it is! Big corps ship cargo automatically, via huge haulers, trough this mega jump system. Issue is it is very, very costly and cost can be only reimbursed if you do these huge trades (10k of tons). That leaves all surplus trading for regular pilots.

How about such explanation?

 

[Javert]

Just thinking on this; how about transport takes as long as it would take to travel yourself - but, you can send the vessel to a destination rather than just call it to the station you're at - that way your ship could be ready and waiting for you in a realistic way - and we get a whole new layer of logistics to think about?

This is a good idea but it doesn't meet what FD seem to state as the actual goal of this feature which is to take advantage of an opportunity which comes up in a system that you happen to be in like "oh look there's a combat zone I need my Vulture" or "oh look, gold is really cheap here I need my T-9".

 

[zimms]

Just thinking on this; how about transport takes as long as it would take to travel yourself - but, you can send the vessel to a destination rather than just call it to the station you're at - that way your ship could be ready and waiting for you in a realistic way - and we get a whole new layer of logistics to think about?

Not going to happen. This doesn't work for the "Oh, look. A squirrel! I want my combat ship now!" scenario. Your solution depends on planing ahead. Apparently that's not desirable.

e: ninja'd.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Also I would like to point out that we already have "instant transportation" situation with us in escape pods after ship gettng blown up. We bought that - we will buy ship hauling in mere seconds.

As not just our ship but the player itself teleports there too that argument is in favour of player teleport just as much as Ship teleport.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

To get back on topic - I wouldn't say it's an inconvenient - far from it. It is certainly a challenge though, but it's always been a core part of the design.

Michael

Michael, I think I've said enough about why I don't like instant transfer.

If you insist on implementing it, could you just implement the option that doesn't require a transfer at all and is probably even less effort code-wise.
i.e. The Stored Ships tab at a Shipyard just becomes My Ships.

 

[EdzUp]

Also I would like to point out that we already have "instant transportation" situation with us in escape pods after ship gettng blown up. We bought that - we will buy ship hauling in mere seconds.

So why not just give the player the ability to teleport around after all as long as they have a ship or money to buy one then it should be allowed. After all if we peg it we jump back to another system. Even if we are 65000+ly out on the rim.

 

[nrage]

It makes the limitations of cargo missions vitually redundent. I turn up at a station with my Cobra, oh there is a nice mission shipping 210 units of cargo to be transported to a place, my Cobra doesn't have that cargo capacity, I insta teleport my cargo ship to my location to take the mission. What is the point of the cargo limitation if it is now redundant.

You still need to own a ship with cargo capacity for the mission, so the limitations are clearly not redundant.

Further. Missions are generated randomly, so you cannot plan for this and fly your cargo ship there in the first place. There are influencing factors on the random generation which make some system more likely to generate the sorts of missions you might want, but it's still "random". The fact that you can now bring the right ship for the mission to the mission location goes some way to addressing this already existing imbalance. Otherwise, you'd have to fly off and get your cargo ship, only to return and find a mission board full of combat missions instead. Yay.

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Michael, I think I've said enough about why I don't like instant transfer.

If you insist on implementing it, could you just implement the option that doesn't require a transfer at all and is probably even less effort code-wise.
i.e. The Stored Ships tab at a Shipyard just becomes My Ships.

I insist they implement it! It's the single best QOL feature in this update. I insist they do not listen to you. Srsly tho, why not wait and see how it pans out in the beta before judging?

 

[knowles2]

Wow 18 dev/frontier stuff posts on discussion that matter. Good job Michael Brookes. It doesn't matter if you change stuff because the feed back or keep it as it is planed the most important thing is that you take part to this discussion and not hide behind silence. This is the communication with the community that many want to see more in the future.

I think they may have been a tad surprise at just unpopular instant transfer of ships is. They also can't be to happy that a relatively minor announcement at Gamescom is now one of the most discussed if not the most discussed topics on these forums with one of the fastest growing threads.

The huge amount of responses on this thread is what marketing call damage control.

 

[Yaffle]

Also I would like to point out that we already have "instant transportation" situation with us in escape pods after ship gettng blown up. We bought that - we will buy ship hauling in mere seconds.

<sigh>

You can't play the game while in an escape pod, so it has to be instant. You can if another ship was in transit.

Are we also really saying 'because we have one unbelievable feature we should add more?' If so, I vote for space dragons ridden by Darth Vader lookalikes wielding sonic screwdrivers and shouting 'GORDON'S ALIVE!' I mean, we've already got one silly feature, it's a good reason to add another, right?