Super maneuverable large ships...

[Siranui]

Where is that on display? Do you have to go to the contacts page and find out? I got severely squished last night in my 'A' rated Cobra Mk4 by a 'Master' 'Conda' and could only think that the ship was tuned.

Elite and Deadly NPC ships are potentially Engineer-tuned. No other ships are.

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The upgrades are optional. But if a person is having problems. Then they can be handy to even the odds.

It's really only postponing the problem, though. Using better kit to bridge a skill gap is not a good long-term strategy.

That said, the NPC *might* have been Elite/Deadly and in a tuned ship themselves, but we don't know because that information was not gathered.

 

[LoneWolf2183]

Wasn't it stated that deadly, and Elite NPCs have moded ships?

 

[SkipRat]

Nope, learn to fly efficiently or use dirty drive upgrade if you have trouble keeping up with NPC's. All my ships have strengthened drives (except canyon runners), drive strengthening actually lowers manoeuvrability.

Seriously? I am talking about manoeuvrability and your talking about having trouble keeping up? Keeping up is not the problem. And I do fly efficiently, I am not the best and I am not the worst either. But I Can handle myself.

I wasn't expecting to win anyway, I didn't care, I didn't want too, I just wanted to see if they had sort the handling of the larger ship and they haven't.

And it seems they have moved away from dog fighting to jousting, which is utterly rubbish, as I prefer dog fighting mechanics. Spinning on the spot and turning circles is as boring as hell, with the best tactic being flying backwards. How awful and uninspiring is that. Might as will move the cockpit to the rear of the ship... better placed for combat...

And now they want to implement instant ship transfer.... brilliant...

 

[lysan]

Nope, learn to fly efficiently or use dirty drive upgrade if you have trouble keeping up with NPC's. All my ships have strengthened drives (except canyon runners), drive strengthening actually lowers maneuverability.

Will that not make the T9 even more Glasiar in the maneuverability? I love my T9 but it's like turning a supertanker, you need a 5 year plan to do it.

 

[kofeyh]

Hoo boy. The down sides of taking a massive break is both that the game can change under you, and the pilot skills become rusty.

AI aren't doormats any more. Flying to keep up with a doormat is somewhat different to a doormat that can magically get up and pound your face in, whilst you look at it with incredulity.

Lots of positive guidance though. Good luck, commander. Welcome back.

 

[Becks]

Nope, as soon as I turned to face it, it would already be facing me... I just could no turn quick enough.

Then you're doing it wrong.

For example, boost towards the big ship, chaff, as soon as you pass it turn around with FA off, boost again to counter your inertia, the forwards thrust of this should bring you close enough to the big ship that you can stay in the dead angle behind the thrusters (which is universal for every big ship) if you utilize your lateral thrusters in a clever way.

It doesn't make sense to fight a large ship with a small ship over longer distance. That's what large ships specialize in. And the bigger the distance between you and the big ship the easier it is for the big ship to actually get a hold of you.

Strafe it one time to get up close and use countermeasures while doing it. You can't tank a big ship with a small ship.

 

[The Replicated Man]

I think it all depends on how you outfit the ship and your skill as well. If I have a Fer de Lance with class A drives and you have a cobra with D drives. I am most certainly going to out maneuver you. Try flying a ship with flight assist off! I just got my anaconda and fly with f assist off and it maneuvers quite well

 

[SkipRat]

The upgrades are optional. But if a person is having problems. Then they can be handy to even the odds.

Also. I didn't have to put a lot of mods on my Anaconda. But sense I wanted to have a 55+ jump range for exploring faster. I did. I didn't need to, but I find it fun to cross 1000LY in less than 20 min.

Well they are not optional if they completely unbalance combat so an A rated ship has no chance... It forced upgrades through bad game mechanics...

And I didn't buy elite to be forced to spend my time driving around a bloody moons looking for lumps hundreds of lumps rock so I can get some OP thrusters and boosters and weapons so I can take a paper clip that someone needs in another system.

Mental game design.

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Then you're doing it wrong.

For example, boost towards the big ship, chaff, as soon as you pass it turn around with FA off, boost again to counter your inertia, the forwards thrust of this should bring you close enough to the big ship that you can stay in the dead angle behind the thrusters (which is universal for every big ship) if you utilize your lateral thrusters in a clever way.

It doesn't make sense to fight a large ship with a small ship over longer distance. That's what large ships specialize in. And the bigger the distance between you and the big ship the easier it is for the big ship to actually get a hold of you.

Strafe it one time to get up close and use countermeasures while doing it. You can't tank a big ship with a small ship.

Mate....

I will say it one more time...

By the time I had done this and turned round, it was already facing me and firing...

I know, okay, I know all what you said... I wish people would stop treating me like I have only been playing two bloody weeks.

Not to mention this is jousting and boring.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Ummm, I am. Not saying I am the best, but I certainly know what I am doing. I wasn't expecting to win the fight either.

I was an A rated Cobra Mark III and the other ship was a Imperial Clipper, fast straight line speed but not very manoeuvrable. And when I hit the blue section for optimal turning speed, by the time I had turned around, the clipper was already facing me.

It is simple, I got out turned... I wasn't going to joust with it as it would have torn me apart, the only thing I had was was the MKIII turning ability and not once did I out turn it, regardless of being in the blue on the speedo.

I love it when people assume that the clipper is some immobile heavy thing. That ship is basically a narrow body with giant thrusters attached. It is the most agile of the large ships. Your fault OP for not being familiar with your enemy.

 

[Siranui]

Well they are not optional if they completely unbalance combat so an A rated ship has no chance... It forced upgrades through bad game mechanics...

No.

I think it has been pointed out three times now that only Elite and Deadly NPCs have Engineer-tuned weapons. So the only unbalancing is either against high-tier foes or on the side of the player. Just like only the player can use FA off. The player has the advantages here.

 

[Becks]

Mate....

I will say it one more time...

By the time I had done this and turned round, it was already facing me and firing...

I know, okay, I know all what you said... I wish people would stop treating me like I have only been playing two bloody weeks.

Not to mention this is jousting and boring.

Then you missed the right timing.

And staying in the dead angle of a ship is the very opposite of jousting.

But hey, I'm not the one who got her ship ripped apart so ... ^^

 

[SkipRat]

I love it when people assume that the clipper is some immobile heavy thing. That ship is basically a narrow body with giant thrusters attached. It is the most agile of the large ships. Your fault OP for not being familiar with your enemy.

It's suppose to be fast not agile. Hence it's it's supposed manoeuvrability rating of 2.

What it is and what it is supposed to be are two entirely different things. I know my enemy, that is the problem.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Well they are not optional if they completely unbalance combat so an A rated ship has no chance... It forced upgrades through bad game mechanics...

And I didn't buy elite to be forced to spend my time driving around a bloody moons looking for lumps hundreds of lumps rock so I can get some OP thrusters and boosters and weapons so I can take a paper clip that someone needs in another system.

Mental game design.

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Mate....

I will say it one more time...

By the time I had done this and turned round, it was already facing me and firing...

I know, okay, I know all what you said... I wish people would stop treating me like I have only been playing two bloody weeks.

Not to mention this is jousting and boring.

It is a tactically good decision for the larger ship with better weapons and shields to joust against a smaller ship. Also gives him a chance to ram you. Clippers are surprisingly good at ramming.

 

[Siranui]

What it is and what it is supposed to be are two entirely different things. I know my enemy, that is the problem.

This is part of the issue here: You think you do, but you do not.

You thought the Clipper should be slow and out-tuned easily. This is absolutely not the case.

You did not even look at the enemy pilot rating. This is an extremely important thing to do.

So you did not know what you were fighting in terms of either ship or AI skill level.

 

[SkipRat]

It is a tactically good decision for the larger ship with better weapons and shields to joust against a smaller ship. Also gives him a chance to ram you. Clippers are surprisingly good at ramming.

Then improve and restrict turrets to larger ships, why do larger ships need agility when they have an array of terrifying turrets to defend them. But then turrets would not be so good against other larger targets where fixed weapons do so much more damage.

Make people have a choice, you can arm yourself to fight larger ships... or defend and attract smaller ships. This however means that small ships need to attack in numbers though, as quite frankly and anaconda with turrets should be able to slaughter a wing of 4 eagles in its own. Where as a single eagle will find it impossible to kill the anaconda because it can do enough damage quick enough, but it should be able to out turn it and make harder for turrets to track though and having to resort to hit and run attacks.

Rather than this boring incarnation we have been given.

 

[DragoonKnight]

It's suppose to be fast not agile. Hence it's it's supposed manoeuvrability rating of 2.

What it is and what it is supposed to be are two entirely different things. I know my enemy, that is the problem.

Have you bought and outfitted a clipper?
Have you flown a clipper in combat?
How many Deadly or Elite clippers have you killed after 2.1?

You obviously do not know your enemy. You only think that you do. Knowing your enemy takes more than just a quick glance at the shipyard screen and the lol worthy "maneuverability rating" advertised.

FYI The clipper's thrusters that allow it to strafe up/down and left/right are truly terrible. Its Pitch and Yaw on the other hand are actually very good. That is why it can pull a 180 as quick as your cobra.

I also find it more than just a little funny that you are so upset at your 8 million credit cobra being defeated by a 100 million credit clipper.

 

[SkipRat]

Have you bought and outfitted a clipper?
Have you flown a clipper in combat?
How many Deadly or Elite clippers have you killed after 2.1?

You obviously do not know your enemy. You only think that you do. Knowing your enemy takes more than just a quick glance at the shipyard screen and the lol worthy "maneuverability rating" advertised.

FYI The clipper's thrusters that allow it to strafe up/down and left/right are truly terrible. Its Pitch and Yaw on the other hand are actually very good. That is why it can pull a 180 as quick as your cobra.

I also find it more than just a little funny that you are so upset at your 8 million credit cobra being defeated by a 100 million credit clipper.

Please tell me how me saying the "clipper is fast" = being slow?

Just explain this to me and I will be very grateful

And and... I am not upset my Cobra got destroyed, I have clearly stated that I don't care. I got liek 300 million in the bank... But hey go make stuff up if you want, I don't mind, just makes you look a fool.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Then improve and restrict turrets to larger ships, why do larger ships need agility when they have an array of terrifying turrets to defend them. But then turrets would not be so good against other larger targets where fixed weapons do so much more damage.

Make people have a choice, you can arm yourself to fight larger ships... or defend and attract smaller ships. This however means that small ships need to attack in numbers though, as quite frankly and anaconda with turrets should be able to slaughter a wing of 4 eagles in its own. Where as a single eagle will find it impossible to kill the anaconda because it can do enough damage quick enough, but it should be able to out turn it and make harder for turrets to track though and having to resort to hit and run attacks.

Rather than this boring incarnation we have been given.

Anaconda has 8 weapon hardpoints. The clipper has 4. Anacondas often run turrets. Clippers rarely run turrets. The only reason that the clipper is a large ship is its large wingspan. It has the body of a medium ship if not for those giant wings that cant be folded or retracted.

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Please tell me how me saying the "clipper is fast" = being slow?

Just explain this to me and I will be very grateful

It is fast, but not very agile.

And and... I am not upset my Cobra got destroyed, I have clearly stated that I don't care. I got liek 300 million in the bank... But hey go make stuff up if you want, I don't mind, just makes you look a fool.

The clipper's pitch rate.... Which is what people think of as the primary agility stat... Is comparable to the FDL and is only a few percent less than that of an FAS. It is fast and agile for all intents and purposes.

What you think it should or should not be is irrelevant

 

[GormDeGamle]

Well, the poor OP is obviously not very fond of the current flight mechanics and ship stats (and as it seems several other aspects of the game, too).
I don't think we will be able to help him a lot with that.
But - keep on going, it's fun to read

 

[Cosmo]

Very large ships should behave more like battleships and have different kind of combat tactics.