The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?

I've stated multiple times that I don't think Elite: Dangerous is a Sim. It's a spaceship game pasted on-top of a Stellar Forged galaxy and BGS. Adding more features to make the spaceship game more convenient and less of a time-sink to play is a plus in my book. I do care about realism in a Sim, but Elite: Dangerous is no Sim.

I understand that some people do consider Elite: Dangerous to be a Sim, and features that make a better spaceship game don't make sense from a Sim standpoint.

In short, this is why I don't consider Elite: Dangerous to be a Sim.

1. The flight mechanics and no g-forces
2. No fatigue, food, water, rent, taxes, licensing, ship degradation/maintenance
3. Instant load/unload, repair, outfitting, refueling, teleport after 'death', ship replication, instant module modifications
4. Rubberband economy, no macro-consequences
5: On the fly synthesizing, and finally, a materials 'bag of holding'

And before 'But, BGS stands for Back Ground Simulation!' I can only say, "Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."

Is the point really being a sim or being tailored towards a sim?
I think it is as simple as this:
Adding the feature in the current planned iteration
does nothing to enrich the galaxy.

It is a choice of convenience,
it does not enrich the interaction with NPCs,
factions and the like.

It does not help you to improve on your story,
it simply makes getting a ship from point A to B
more convenient
.

The demanded convenience will be there,
regardless of using time or not.
But the latter opens up options of enriching the experience
by simulating the process and outcome via ingame means
(corporations, NPC pilots and the like).

While the first just makes the game more accessible.
 
On the other hand, if I insta-Summons my golden Anaconda the Low Gravitas Warning Signal to where I am, it's no longer my original ship, it's some 3D-printed clone of it and there goes any attachment I had to it (which would be even more if we had ship naming implemented).

Mr Brookes - please kill the 3D-printed clone idea. Kill it with fire before it lays eggs!

Seconded. It's not your original ship, it's a replica that appears instantly by magical powers beyond the galaxy.

magic-show-large.jpg


Voila, magic.
 
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Currently ship insurance is the cost to print a new ship.

But they want ship transfer to be common place, for convenience.
So will they reduce insurance as it is printing a ship.

The formula will be a % value of ship * a distance modifier.


My back-of-a-napkin pondering as I was in the shower this morning was:-

Small ship: 5000cr per LY
Medium ship: 10,000cr per LY
Large ship: 20,000cr per LY

So it would cost 500,000cr, 1 million cr, or 2 million cr per 100LY for the three classes respectively.

Bolt-ons for increasing difficulty/reducing utility:-

* Add 10% of the ships current rebuy to the cost as a risk premium for transfer.
* Transfers can only be done at stations, not outposts, as stations have the infrastructure in place and are almost guaranteed to have an appropriately-sized pad available for reservation.

Idle ideas, but I like number crunching [big grin]
 
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LOL this! There's a ton of things that don't make sense and the list is only increasing. Engineer's are the only one's that can make mods that are so tricky they can never make the same mod twice yet your insurance company has an infinite stock of them. Communication is somehow hampered by systems as we can't get info on them (does anyone really care this info is hidden anyway) but we can insta transport ships anywhere!

DB is going for real science underneath - so the bread is real he's just smearing it with a cheap butter immitation spread.

This game is onoly going in one direction - the one of bad decisions and it drastically needs a reversal or just put the breaks on!! Stop making new things, you're messing it up! Go back to all the stuff that needs braodening and fixing. That way you can't do anymore harm just make the existing stuff better....I hope.

To me that's the biggest flaw with the whole instant 3D printing thing. If the feature was delayed for 2.4 (could be a good "surprise" feature) but was polished it would have been just great. Imagine a system where carrier ship transports leave the station every one hour. Carriers you can actually see docking in the station. Once they do your ship that you called for somewhere between the last hour arrives. So much more believable.

Yes its not instant, you have to wait at least an hour, or plan what ships you call ahead, but it is better than what we have now and it doesn't dump down the game. I do like having to bounty hunt in a subpar Asp at times, even if it is because I forget to order a ship transfer for my FDL before I logged out the last night..

4 players in a wing, 2 of them forgot their ship order.. well they ll have to make due with their sub optimal wing for a few hours...

Why do we need to make it so much easier to play everything optimally? Is the multiplayer side of the game so antagonizing? If that is so, do ditch the whole randomness and make the game about specific fast results from specific choices. That way everyone can play optimally, min maxing their ships at will. It sounds irrelevant but to most people in the forum apparently, ship instant transfer changes what this game is about.

Not that I do not understand the part of the community which wants their time spent on things they like, but you can do these things suboptimally with any multirole ship, Asp included. A small delay will not change things. You just have to wait a few minutes or if you cannot wait, have your taxi ship setup as a multirole. Choices which have implications as someone mentioned in this thread.

To be fair, we do not know the actual limitations of the system and while the instant part is hard to swallow, implementation might be very different than what we imagine.

What I m worrying about is that FD gives a feature that frees things up completely concerning transports, and it will be hard if not impossible to recall, or even put some limits on it later. Exactly how the 10% module rebuy penalty played out, so it ll make any balancing calibrations improbable and leaving a feature semi broken.

Inserting a feature with many limits and gradually opening it up until its fine, would have been preferable.
 
.... and I expect that it will be significantly less expensive than rebuy (at moderate ranges at least).

ok as you know i totally do not like the 3D printing argument, and would rather no reasoning at all that that... BUT the expense is not really an issue imo

if it is 3D printing a ship, the cost we pay isnt the full cost of that printed ship... because presumably the actual cost is, trading in our actual ship PLUS what ever we are expected to pay up front.

Please, dont think i am saying i like the notion... just that, a cost of say 300k to print a 10 million credit ship is not inherently broken because of the cost because the 300k does not have to cover the entire printing operation, most of it will be covered by our old ship.
 
Originally Posted by Genar-Hofoen (Source) On the other hand, if I insta-Summons my golden Anaconda the Low Gravitas Warning Signal to where I am, it's no longer my original ship, it's some 3D-printed clone of it and there goes any attachment I had to it (which would be even more if we had ship naming implemented).

Mr Brookes - please kill the 3D-printed clone idea. Kill it with fire before it lays eggs!


Nuke the entire idea from orbit, its the only way to be sure ;)

Sadly this is already an egg. The original "bird" is the 3d printing of small fighters inside big ships.
 
How?

It's a serious question, as I don't participate in PP.
Often you will see that hostiles from other powers tend to favor long range fighters (or anacondas) when going far away.

This ment that if you are in your own space the chances of running into FDLs and vultures was lesser than just next door to hostile space.

With this ship transfer they can just jump with the asp and once in the system they want to undermine switch to the vulture.
So vultues will no longer be the short range killing machine its ment to be but a tool that serves all around the galaxy.
 
The only other option at this point would be to not include the feature until a viable alternative can be implemented (which will take time)
I don't have the empirical data to backup the point, but I would argue that more players would benefit than those who are 'upset' by the idea.

The viable alternative is simply implementing ship transfer, but NOT make it instant.
Not really. FD only did instant transfer because ot was really really easy to do: a minor change to the shipyard UI a quick cost calculation and a tiny database update. Doing anything that is not instant is a lot more work. Still not a huge pile of work (I think) but certainly more than instant. The choice seems to be instant or pull it, and it seems clear which one of those we will get, unless someone finds an even bigger exploit than all the issues that have been raised.
 
A few more calculations (most probably 2 more calculations) and a timer before executing the actual transfer code function, which will be what? Changing the station field in the table where ships are stored within a DB? I refuse to believe any development studio considers this a lot of work...

No extra graphics, no physics, no nothing.
 
Also what happens to all your peronal belongings you keep in your ship, where do they go. Do they get magically 3D printed as well. The whole thing has absalutly no logic behind it.

A few more calculations (most probably 2 more calculations) and a timer before executing the actual transfer code function, which will be what? Changing the station field in the table where ships are stored within a DB? I refuse to believe any development studio considers this a lot of work...

No extra graphics, no physics, no nothing.

[video=youtube;RYZ6-rort6E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYZ6-rort6E[/video]
 
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Is the point really being a sim or being tailored towards a sim?
I think it is as simple as this:
Adding the feature in the current planned iteration
does nothing to enrich the galaxy.

It is a choice of convenience,
it does not enrich the interaction with NPCs,
factions and the like.

It does not help you to improve on your story,
it simply makes getting a ship from point A to B
more convenient
.

The demanded convenience will be there,
regardless of using time or not.
But the latter opens up options of enriching the experience
by simulating the process and outcome via ingame means
(corporations, NPC pilots and the like).

While the first just makes the game more accessible.

Enrich the galaxy? So every addition now has to 'enrich the galaxy' to be implemented?

I'm all for seeing bulk-cruisers or whatever hauling ships around the galaxy to help those who can't incorporate this decision into their immersion matrix. Or maybe a switch you can toggle in the menus that will dim your screen for minute and reads "Your ship arrived sometime later."
 
I've stated multiple times that I don't think Elite: Dangerous is a Sim. It's a spaceship game pasted on-top of a Stellar Forged galaxy and BGS. Adding more features to make the spaceship game more convenient and less of a time-sink to play is a plus in my book. I do care about realism in a Sim, but Elite: Dangerous is no Sim.

I understand that some people do consider Elite: Dangerous to be a Sim, and features that make a better spaceship game don't make sense from a Sim standpoint.

In short, this is why I don't consider Elite: Dangerous to be a Sim.

1. The flight mechanics and no g-forces
2. No fatigue, food, water, rent, taxes, licensing, ship degradation/maintenance
3. Instant load/unload, repair, outfitting, refueling, teleport after 'death', ship replication, instant module modifications
4. Rubberband economy, no macro-consequences
5: On the fly synthesizing, and finally, a materials 'bag of holding'

And before 'But, BGS stands for Back Ground Simulation!' I can only say, "Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."
1) there is a lore reason for that
2) I think the idea is our charecter sleeps , eat and what not when we are not playing , but I would like to see change
3) Its anoying and would like more realistic take on it , however at least its stuff hapening in the same room as you
4) There are some minor consequences but they are very limited and happen to the faction not you , again I hope to see change
5) Its 3D printing on a scale we can do today , I like it and it fits in the elite lore because we are printing small parts and make shift repairs. however the bag of holding was hated and still is hated.

The main issue is not that we want it to be a sim , but an elite lore sim : what it was promised to be and what it was in 2014.
When you make a game with lore , you have to follow it to the letter , otherwise dont make the lore the way it was.

The issue with this feature is two fold :
1) lore wise its stupid
2) it kills ballance and imergent gameplay
 
I leave you with this fact: We don't know how it's going to work yet, just that Frontier is working on it. Can we stop with the assumptions?

no problem with that.

i'm just pointing out that the size of the galaxy (as mentioned in this threads title) is "hardcoded" into a lot of niche-activities in the game, and "changing the size" will have a lot of secondary effects. e.g. i don't think that most trading activities will be influenced by this feature a lot, but fortifications material hauling or cg trading or BGS at the edge of the bubble might be.

to give another exampel: we will be able to cash in bounties and fines from "everywhere". this is great!

but what will this QoL feature do to the BGS? will those bounties count in the system (like superpower bounties), and therefor stabilise controlling factions in that system, and will there be less bounties cashed in locally, therefor pushing factions into.lockdown? will it count in the system they come from, which would need some recoding, and will allow even less tracking of activities in system? will it not count at all, and therefor push more factions into lockdown?

size of the galaxy brought an ecosystem with it, and this is going to change a lot.
 
The majority of players don't look for ways to game the system, they just want to play the game.

Given the amount of threads on Reddit, questions asked on SA about money making and threads that pop up here before quickly disappearing in the roiling wake that is this forum, I'd say a good number of people are looking for the quickest way to make the most money, but that's because outfitting the "good" ships (totally subjective) for most newbie players, is going to be their goal. Why else would this forum have blown up every time a new money making trick was found?


I asked you to explain to me how the feature would be used to spoil or break the game for other players. You replied with a scenario about describing how it could be used to quickly hunt for people. I broke down your scenario with the fact that instancing would probably ruin it more often than not. You've provided nothing else outside of your well known disdain for "non consensual" pvp to explain how this feature would hurt the gameplay of others.

That is what I am waiting for.
 
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Enrich the galaxy? So every addition now has to 'enrich the galaxy' to be implemented?

I'm all for seeing bulk-cruisers or whatever hauling ships around the galaxy to help those who can't incorporate this decision into their immersion matrix. Or maybe a switch you can toggle in the menus that will dim your screen for minute and reads "Your ship arrived sometime later."

Well, yeah all additions should be enriching the in-game galaxy.
 
Enrich the galaxy? So every addition now has to 'enrich the galaxy' to be implemented?

I'm all for seeing bulk-cruisers or whatever hauling ships around the galaxy to help those who can't incorporate this decision into their immersion matrix. Or maybe a switch you can toggle in the menus that will dim your screen for minute and reads "Your ship arrived sometime later."

Wasting the opportunity to get on the road
of having the feature introduce stuff to interact with
(bulk carriers/service economy branches/corporations)
would be a bad choice imo.

We have enough wasted opportunities already, agreed?
 
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