The Star Citizen Thread v5

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jcrg99

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Nothing on that page indicates an exponential growth in the number of players.

Accounts not necessarily means pledges. We can be looking to 0.5% of new pledgers (optimistically) and 99.5% of people that hated the game enough to never go back to it. Specially because they will associate the broken game with all the mess, controversy and the disgusting sales approach or RSI. I think that this is a more realistic view.

In before someone ask why they do all these free weeks then, if they would be burning themselves instead making sure to prospect new backers, the reason is because they don't care. They need the money and they want to keep the show, while receiving their high payments and bonus for as long as possible, so they profit more from all this. They know that the game is anyway. And a person that really comes into this, despite how bad the game is and with all the controversy,lack of progress, cash grabbing, etc., definitely is one more wih the potential to be evangelized to become a whale. And they need just a few whales to keep sustaining them for longer, despite not making the company and the game development to advance... Again, this is a project that is and its all about to let people know that is later rather than earlier. Isn't much better to fail richer, when you know that no matter what, you are going to fail anyway?
 
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I think Squadron 42 has a great potential in generating a huge revenue, like I said before it's a epic space opera with not just "Hollywood Actors".

They got Commander Gordon, Skywalker and Dana Scully in leading roles     [big grin]

I'm calling it now: Squadron 42 will be GOTY material and bring a LOT of cash and new mainstream gamers!
 
Slow? hehehe not at all. Quite hasty as the latest demo showed and I recall that it's just a small portion of what they have to show, bring on Citizencon Hype!



CIG stated that they put a few months into it, one (playable only by a couple of people in a lan environment, lots of smoke and mirrors in it too) mission. That's glacial at best, nothing hasty about it. The 'small portion' bit I don't doubt, but if the rest of it is as bland as this then it won't hold attention for long. CIG are notorious for saying that they have done a lot when in actual fact they've done very little (It's CIG after all, running their mouths as usual), check the progress of the PU for a perfect demonstration in how fast they actually do things, 9 months it's been up and running.

Please don't bring any hype, it's sad and pitiful at this point.

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I'm calling it now: Squadron 42 will be GOTY material and bring a LOT of cash and new mainstream gamers!

People who like space games/space opera's have already bought it, it's a niche market at the best of times and I imagine most people in that market would rather buy something with actual sci-fi value due to actual branding credibility. In order for it to be a GOTY, it would have to play well, and if it's anything like the morrow tour with PU flying characteristics, then it'll be a huge flop and laughed at, especially with CR playing director with the "story". I think if it's lucky it may be seen as better than "Wing Commander - the movie" but that in itself would be like saying syphilis is much better than crabs.
 
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jcrg99

Banned
I think Squadron 42 has a great potential in generating a huge revenue, like I said before it's a epic space opera with not just "Hollywood Actors".

They got Commander Gordon, Skywalker and Dana Scully in leading roles     [big grin]

I'm calling it now: Squadron 42 will be GOTY material and bring a LOT of cash and new mainstream gamers!

Unless they release Squadron 42 in the console AND make a serious downgrade in everything they have been doing... nope... not a chance. Besides, they would need that Call of Duty Infinity Warfare and Mass Effect Andromeda end to be big flops and disappoint too. And stop in the version 1, I mean, not doing anything else in the top of their base games, first released versions. Pretty sure they will have some sort of multiplayer features and good chances that will keep adding stuff to their games, and new versions, like a CoD:IW 2, 3... Good luck with that, since Squadron 42 is coming out around end of 2017 (because if not, Squadron 42 will be released as a terrible, subpar game, just to feed the whales, but been looked as a meh by the rest of the potential players).
 
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I think Squadron 42 has a great potential in generating a huge revenue, like I said before it's a epic space opera with not just "Hollywood Actors".
Too bad that all of that is just speculation and that mainstream gamers have never shown much interest in the genre or in games that require non-mainstream hardware. I can't think of a single instance where hollywood actors have sold a modern game over more relevant elements such as gameplay, storyline, and presentation, or just plain old brand recognition — none of which are known (or applicable) for SQ42.

…maybe the 50 cent games, but we're not really talking about “Hollywood actor” at that point.
 
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bring on Citizencon Hype!

On that note, people do know that, by definition, Hype is exaggeration, right?

As everywhere else, to Hype something up is the create a exaggerated or false positive impression to sell a product that doesn't live up to the claims.

You don't what Hype, you want enthusiasm for concrete features and functions.
 

jcrg99

Banned
I'm calling it now: Squadron 42 will be GOTY material and bring a LOT of cash and new mainstream gamers!

[video=youtube;uG8V9dRqSsw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG8V9dRqSsw[/video]

[video=youtube;vk_s2oPlTKY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk_s2oPlTKY[/video]

[video=youtube;OWVUxzuD_Qc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWVUxzuD_Qc[/video]

[video=youtube;vP_8_8LAi4I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP_8_8LAi4I&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvP_8_8LAi4I&has_verified=1[/video]

As I said... sorry pal. Your SQ42 is coming too late.
 
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How exactly do you do due diligence on purchasable assets when:

1. 'Purchasable' does not always mean 'playable now'.
2. CIG change ship stats and other factors on a whim, often enough to completely change certain ships' roles.
3. There is no actual game to accurately test quality/value of assets in.
4. It's all subject to change.

The only real sensible option is to not bother buying anything really, that's as much due diligence as people are afforded..

All of this can be summed up by reading what you can at the time of purchase. If you don't like that things will change...don't back. If you cannot handle the minor bugs that pop up....don't back. Noticing a theme?

#3 is interesting but it's solely dependent upon the person backing and how they assess things than anything CIG can control. Many here don't like the flight model but I know quite a few (including me) that have little to no issue with it. Many here don't like that it's taken 4-5 years, depending upon who you ask, to arrive where they are now, and yet I can point to a majority of people who take little issue about that.

So yes if you want to majorly "invest" into the project, it's on you to do your due diligence to understand the risk that is involved. Before you even try, yes CIG could make a better effort to clear up the message and emphasize the risk, however, it's not like that info isn't out there. This is why I have very little sympathy for people who back for what I perceive as the wrong reasons.

Sure it does.

Before its release, NMS was a massively hyped game that failed to live up to its expectations, especially among the people who had hyped it up and who had very aggressively harassed anyone who suggested that maybe, just maybe, it was ever so slightly overhyped. Something very similar is going on with SC, and based on what they've released, the one consistent aspect is that it's not really living up to the hype. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that it, too, will not meet its hype target on release.

Should that realisation reach the ardent, very aggressive, core fanbase, there is nothing to suggest that they will not have the same reaction as the NMS fans have had.

Gonna need a citation to backup the claim that the majority of the Star Citizen community WILL display the same vitriol that the NMS community did upon release. :p

If you can buy ships or in game cash with RL money then it's pay2win, there's no middle-ground. Games do it or they don't gamers like it or they don't it's a blocker for a lot of people. AFAIK CiG have said in the past they wouldn't do it post release, but that's big pinch of salt obviously.

The balance is impossible one side or the other will lose their minds, probably both to some degree.

Look at the drama with NMS people went nuts (proper death threat nuts) because a shallow cartoony space exploration minecraft/spore crossover was a bit delayed then wasn't the second coming of space simulation. The game's exactly as I expected it to be from watching game-play video's a space mans version of borderlands (I don't mean that in a bad way both games are daft mindless fun). There's a lot of people applying wishful thinking/online theory-crafting to games in development, then they are very disappointed when reality hits. Over-hyped marketing doesn't help.

The wishful thinking, theory-crafting and over-promising in relation to SC is much, much worse than NMS ever was. The fallout on release/cancellation/MVP will probably be equally magnified (and there's people much more heavily spending on it).

There is always a balance; there is always a way to make the MAJORITY happy. Not everyone is going to approve, it would be silly to assume otherwise and CIG DOESN'T have to cater to them.

The problem with NMS was that too little was showed which allowed potential gamers imaginations to conjure up theories of what it was GOING to be and not enough correcting from Sony or Hello Games. Sony could have easily gone out and temper the expectations of this game but they didn't because they were more motivated by their bottom line than being honest with their customers. Sean Murray did at least try but it was like trying to talk to a crowd w/o a microphone (crowd being the hype). This is not the same as Star Citizen, you are seeing how the game is developed and can play the current iteration (something that you could not do in NMS). CIG does inform their backers, admittingly at the last minute or after the fact, that things will be delayed; they also give a reason, perhaps not in super detail, why it was delayed. The only time this didn't occur was for Star Marine but when we did get an explanation, it made sense at least to me.

As an aside, it helps to know what version of pay-to-win you're evoking because there really isn't a solid definition of what it is (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win)
 
Squadron 42 will burst out of hiding within a few weeks and will wipe the floor with everything else due to its excellent cast and the outstanding direction of Chris Roberts. He is the George Lucas of video games after all. (Quote by Gary Oldman, who didn't know, that George Lucas funded actual video games.)
 
All of this can be summed up by reading what you can at the time of purchase. If you don't like that things will change...don't back. If you cannot handle the minor bugs that pop up....don't back. Noticing a theme?

Which is the sensible option with hindsight, as no one backing in 2012 could have seen the extent of the changes or just how far it would all be delayed. As far as we were concerned, and it's in my forum sig in the brown sea, "We do not commit to developing features that would delay the release of a finished product" (Or words very close to that, I can't exactly remember and I'm probated there for saying "nice community here" after being told to F off after a backer forgot how to read and got annoyed at my totally nuetral post :D )

Bugs have nothing to do with it though chap, as they are so fond of saying "its an alpha" and bugs don't change the perceived value of an asset but changing that assets form/function after they've sold it, does.
 
As I said... sorry pal. Your SQ42 is coming too late.

Hehe those look interesting like all trailers do, but they are still games to cater to the console market, constrained by the low hardware of their main platforms and the mostly juvenile playerbase that only uses a gamepad to play. Its unfair to even compare them with Squadron 42 quality bar or scope for that matter.

And Squadron 42 won't be coming late, it will arrive precisely at the time it needs to prove exactly what I stated above. [big grin]


How can you call GOTY for SQ42 when we've seen literally nothing of it?

That's not accurate at all, try their official Squadron 42 Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVct2QDhDrB2-Edu0jm18lz0W9NRcXy3Y
Squadron-42-Summary.jpg

04.jpg


Retaliator_Action_01b.jpg


tumblr_nz8yxjdGDk1sj8xx9o1_1280.jpg


SbBKXCg.png

Some tidy bits here and there:
[video=youtube;uXpJmxleflw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXpJmxleflw[/video]
 
Not living up to the hype? So why is it growing and growing every month? Why do they see boosts in growth after their show's or after every big patch?
NMS is a game based on PG with very little engaging gameplay , it's "exploration" attributes are just rinse + repeat pg assets without any meaning.

Besides that NMS still sold a lot of unites and made them a lot of money. Why? Because forum/reddit posters make for a very small percentage of an actual game community.
That little minority of hardcore followers of a game (lovers or haters) can make a lot of noise but in the big picture they are mostly just exacerbated noise.

Star Citizen is true open development, that's why we have been playing the game since it's inception basically. With every update delivered the number of players rise exponentially and as the basic foundations are put in place and the alpha grows and grows the more people will join. There is also Squadron 42 which will provide contextualization and mass-market appeal with the Hollywood cast and rich lore of it's space opera single-player campaign.

House Roberts: The Future is Bright and Full of Backers [big grin]

I mostly agree with what you say here but CIG is anything but "true" open-development. A true open development environment would allow us into internal builds of the game; allows us to parse through game code; allow us to see the design documents...,etc. A really good analogy of Star Citizen's open development is a butcher shop. You pay for your meat and than watch through a window as the butcher prepares your order.

Also, Hollywood cast being led around by CR, have you ever seen his level of directing skills? Yeah to be kind, he is a terrible director (as proven by his film making prowess). Those Hollywood actors (yawn, no game has ever done that before, yawn) are not going to shine at all, what did Matthew Lillard say about Wing Commander again? Oh yeah, it was a "piece of **** that I regretted doing", his words not mine :D I forsee nothing but lols from S42, as thats the one thing CR keeps delivering in spades.

Now, now not everyone hated that movie. I actually enjoyed it but I also have a soft spot for marginally ok and B-movies too. ;)

If you divorce the whole Wing Commander thing, it's really not that bad of a sci-fi adventure movie.

There is little to no real communication about planning, roadmaps, milestones, design deliverables etc. — standard project elements that you'd expect a truly open project to provide without much ado, but which are instead hidden away or even described as being detrimental to the project.

Well not saying this is an excuse but because CR was overly-optimistic about their road map schedules and releases (even just ballparks), the community pretty much told him to stop telling us when things will be out because he almost always got burned because of it. I certainly cannot blame them for following what their community wants.

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apologies for the multi-quote posts....still catching up to the latest page :)
 
Hehe those look interesting like all trailers do, but they are still games to cater to the console market, constrained by the low hardware of their main platforms and the mostly juvenile playerbase that only uses a gamepad to play. Its unfair to even compare them with Squadron 42 quality bar or scope for that matter.
How do you know this? What does the hardware requirements have to do with the quality of the game or its scope, especially in this day and age? And how can you even begin to make any judgement about quality and scope when there's no information about either as far as SQ42 goes, and only in limited amounts about the other tw

And Squadron 42 won't be coming late, it will arrive precisely at the time it needs to prove exactly what I stated above
What is this assumption based on?

That's not accurate at all, try their official Squadron 42 Youtube Channel:
The one that contains no real information about the game other than a horribly low quality walk-through, a section of an awfully directed and performed cutscene, and a couple of interviews with people who have nothing to do with the actual gameplay or game content? It — quite literally — shows nothing of the game.
 
I mostly agree with what you say here but CIG is anything but "true" open-development. A true open development environment would allow us into internal builds of the game; allows us to parse through game code; allow us to see the design documents...,etc. A really good analogy of Star Citizen's open development is a butcher shop. You pay for your meat and than watch through a window as the butcher prepares your order.

True open development in the sense that we are playing a REAL alpha , and not what companies disguise as demos as they do nowadays just to test their network and make some last polish changes and release soon after. That's why we've seen the game change so much though the course of the years, looking back it's truly amazing how far we've come.
 
Well not saying this is an excuse but because CR was overly-optimistic about their road map schedules and releases (even just ballparks), the community pretty much told him to stop telling us when things will be out because he almost always got burned because of it. I certainly cannot blame them for following what their community wants.
It's not an excuse, true, but it also disqualifies them from being “true open development”. It doesn't really matter if the community asked for it — it still means that they keep most of the development, and in particular the truly critical parts of that development, under wraps.

They could just have started making realistic assessments of their delivery times — there are plenty of very good tools and methods for doing so — or start being… well… open about how and why the deadlines and deliverables change.

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True open development in the sense that we are playing a REAL alpha , and not what companies disguise as demos as they do nowadays just to test their network and make some last polish changes and release soon after.
There's nothing particularly “real” about the alpha they've released, nor does releasing it make their development any more “truly open” than Microsoft. In fact, if anything, it's far less of a “real” alpha than most since even CIG has officially stated that it's not a real alpha and since it doesn't really do what an alpha version normally does.

At the end of the day, the game hasn't changed much — it has just been very slow in its roll-out and the development has been kept under wraps so there's no way of telling how the project has morphed over time. Just look at CIG's own confusion with their internal processes during chairgate for instance. It's pretty sad little they've done and how far they still have to go, even after 5 years of development.
 
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The one that contains no real information about the game other than a horribly low quality walk-through, a section of an awfully directed and performed cutscene, and a couple of interviews with people who have nothing to do with the actual gameplay or game content? It — quite literally — shows nothing of the game.

It contains quite a lot of information, both from the characters and a lot of scenes if you look carefully, it's filled with little details if you look closely enough. Squadron 42 will be a milestone in single-player games, Citizencon Demo will showcase that more clearly I'm sure.
 
True open development in the sense that we are playing a REAL alpha , and not what companies disguise as demos as they do nowadays just to test their network and make some last polish changes and release soon after. That's why we've seen the game change so much though the course of the years, looking back it's truly amazing how far we've come.

But you are contradicting CIG here... they've said it's a pre-alpha, not an alpha

(as Tippis noted)

I have another question. There are many indie games with drawn-out alpha developments, notably Rimworld (though there are many others). Rimworld has been in alpha for years, and keeps a daily changelog. That's the openest development I've ever seen, and tbh CIG doesn't come close.

Or does it disqualify because it's not in 'real alpha'?
 
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