Dear FD. The hunt begins on the 28th - but ends a few hours later

[GluttonyFang]

That's still "PvP". Destroying cargo ships? With the silly cargo ship design of FD? .. let's not give them any offensive capabilities (unlike the 1shot missles of previous Elites)... and a tiny defense as well .. which works against NPCs so so, but mainly because they toned them down to nothingness.

Cargo ships in the right hands can be well-defended on one's own against reasonable opposition. (Other than T7+T9)

Yea, and it seems they've accomplished to make cargo-piracy hard to impossible for the solo commander thanks to the overresponse in security while not touching 4 vs. 1 ganksquads at all.
Back to the design bench.

I think it's more of a general security update for secured systems, while it is harsh on solo pirates, it is reasonable since pirates shouldn't be walking freely in the daylight in secured systems and attacking people. Now we need more reason for traders to go to anarchy systems.

Ganksquad situation needs to be addressed by adding penalty to clean ship destruction by not only the means of increased insurance but temporary blocked station access in secured systems.

 

[Jypson]

Not quite - if my memories don't fool me. Filtering *should* work in the way I described above. Unfortunately in a way we players never can control or predict in a reliable way.
I'm less sure about the communication blocking but I guess you're correct here.

So it's practically useless, gotchya [hotas]

 

[Boomer Kay]

Cargo ships in the right hands can be well-defended on one's own against reasonable opposition. (Other than T7+T9)

T7 + T9 are the "cargo ships".
Rest are multirole combat ships who happen to have enough internals to get some decent cargo hauled.
Not sure where they're going with the Beluga or the Panther Clipper, but if one or both of them go down the "cargo ship" route (crappy shield multipliers, way too low armour for the mass), I can already forsee the endless "got shot down by an Elite NPC FDL, thanks for the 500 million rebuy" threads on here.

I think it's more of a general security update for secured systems, while it is harsh on solo pirates, it is reasonable since pirates shouldn't be walking freely in the daylight in secured systems and attacking people. Now we need more reason for traders to go to anarchy systems.

Ganksquad situation needs to be addressed by adding penalty to clean ship destruction by not only the means of increased insurance but temporary blocked station access in secured systems.

That's the model that failed in EvE. No need to try that here. (ok, "fail" is such a harsh word .. let's call it a .. "Green Lantern kind of success")

As long as you have several accounts, in-game consequences are of no consequence.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Elite should have never had player interaction. It would be much better if they spent more time fleshing out the universe....

Eh, who am i kidding. The game isnt fun. Dont get me wrong, its pretty for sure.... but "fun" is not the best word to describe Elite. The best word is "Job".

 

[Siranui]

Cargo ships in the right hands can be well-defended on one's own against reasonable opposition. (Other than T7+T9)

And will it stay like that after ship summoning, when combat ships won't need a large FSD, fuel tank or scoop?

Asking for a friend...

 

[Iskariot]

Now we need more reason for traders to go to anarchy systems.

Very much agree with all you said, especially the above sentence.
I think there should be increasing bonuses for traders going to lower security systems, depending on the level of security.
And these bonuses should be clearly mentioned in the financial screen, so that it is clear to the player that he gets them.
The game very often does not communicate clearly. For example if you currently get bonuses for certain missions (redirections, killing pirates etc.) they are not specified at all in the final financial screen.
People like to earn bonuses and to motivate them these should be communicated.

 

[Sunleader]

I agree that the Crime and Punishment Mechanics need an overhaul.


An T9 Trader with a full Cargo Hold loses like 10 million credits if he dies.
But the killer get a Bounty often less than 10k Credits.
And if he is killed for it or in the attempt he only loses his 2 million rebuy (often much much less)


This creates an incredible inbalance.
Especially cuz this leads to no one hunting pirates as they aint worth the effort.


Interdicting a clean Ship should give 5000 credits bounty
Killing a clean Ship should give 50.000 credits bounty and an 50.000 credits fine you have to pay if your killed.
Killing a clean ship which had commodities loaded should give a 100k credits bounty for piracy and should give you a fine over the commodities average value + 50k credits which you got to pay if your killed.

(The fine makes sure that it aint abused by a pal killing him and cashing the bounty while at the same time it will make sure that criminals actually pay for tgeir deeds IF they are caught that is.

 

[GluttonyFang]

T7 + T9 are the "cargo ships".
Rest are multirole combat ships who happen to have enough internals to get some decent cargo hauled.

T6 is decent with its speed and maneuverability.

That's the model that failed in EvE. No need to try that here. (ok, "fail" is such a harsh word .. let's call it a .. "Green Lantern kind of success")

As long as you have several accounts, in-game consequences are of no consequence.

True, but it much more effective than what FD has currently, so I say it's a success.

 

[Iskariot]

Elite should have never had player interaction. It would be much better if they spent more time fleshing out the universe....

I would have been extremely happy with only a solo experience.
All the time and money spent on creating multiplayer stuff could have been spend elsewhere and not having to balance everything for PvP would have been much easier.

But... it is what it is. Many, if not most people, like to do multiplayer.

Eh, who am i kidding. The game isnt fun. Dont get me wrong, its pretty for sure.... but "fun" is not the best word to describe Elite. The best word is "Job".

I do have fun and afaiac the game has improved considerably with every big update.
There are always teething problems, but in general I like where things are heading and I would not be spending so much time with the game if I did not enjoy myself.

 

[Im_Lost]

Should be how it was originally back in beta, where if you die with a bounty you get no insurance. But they should also make bounties for murder a percentage of your overall wealth and ones you can't simply pay off.

Also ignore does not work as it was intended at first, which was to disallow ignored players into your session. That needs fixing.

 

[Goose4291]

As long as you have several accounts, in-game consequences are of no consequence.

Only if you can transfer assets easily, which Elite doesn't really allow.

 

[GJ51]

I agree that the Crime and Punishment Mechanics need an overhaul.


An T9 Trader with a full Cargo Hold loses like 10 million credits if he dies.
But the killer get a Bounty often less than 10k Credits.
And if he is killed for it or in the attempt he only loses his 2 million rebuy (often much much less)


This creates an incredible inbalance.
Especially cuz this leads to no one hunting pirates as they aint worth the effort.


Interdicting a clean Ship should give 5000 credits bounty
Killing a clean Ship should give 50.000 credits bounty and an 50.000 credits fine you have to pay if your killed.
Killing a clean ship which had commodities loaded should give a 100k credits bounty for piracy and should give you a fine over the commodities average value + 50k credits which you got to pay if your killed.

(The fine makes sure that it aint abused by a pal killing him and cashing the bounty while at the same time it will make sure that criminals actually pay for tgeir deeds IF they are caught that is.

Insurance re-buy on the ship used for the kill is suspended and becomes the fine on the offender's account. No time limit. No buy out.

Maybe losing 100 Mil or more for murder would make someone think twice.

Would not apply in Anarchy systems.

Kill clean ship - no insurance coverage, until the credits lost = the value of the ship used to commit the crime. Applied to the account, not the individual ship for each instance.

 

[Deareim]

Just prove that FD do not play its game.

 

[Soon(TM)]

Sure, you're qualified to comment right?

Pretty sure you don't understand or haven't thought about the difficulties/complications of implementing it how you think it should work.

It is not a straightforward problem.

There is a straight forward answer.

Don't play in open if FD can't fix ignore filters.

 

[verminstar]

There is a straight forward answer.

Don't play in open if FD can't fix ignore filters.

Can't or won't?

 

[Soon(TM)]

Insurance re-buy on the ship used for the kill is suspended and becomes the fine on the offender's account. No time limit. No buy out.

Maybe losing 100 Mil or more for murder would make someone think twice.

Would not apply in Anarchy systems.

Kill clean ship - no insurance coverage, until the credits lost = the value of the ship used to commit the crime. Applied to the account, not the individual ship for each instance.

that's a good start.

Kill a clean commander for no reason and you lose your ship insurance for 7 days.

If you die in that time you lose your ship.

That would put pirates off ganking commanders for fun and would encourage proper piracy.

I.e interdicting you and making demands, disabling you and not destroying you instantly.

Wouldn't apply to attacking NPC's of course since they are not part of the pilots federation.

 

[Goose4291]

Insurance re-buy on the ship used for the kill is suspended and becomes the fine on the offender's account. No time limit. No buy out.

Maybe losing 100 Mil or more for murder would make someone think twice.

Would not apply in Anarchy systems.

Kill clean ship - no insurance coverage, until the credits lost = the value of the ship used to commit the crime. Applied to the account, not the individual ship for each instance.

You've still got the same exploit issue though.

We're friends and we both have these mega bounties.

You jump into a sidey and I kill you, pocketing the bounty.
We do ithis the other way around.

End product: Minimal loss.

 

[GJ51]

You've still got the same exploit issue though.

We're friends and we both have these mega bounties.

You jump into a sidey and I kill you, pocketing the bounty.
We do ithis the other way around.

End product: Minimal loss.

Except the bounty would only be 5% of the value of the ship lost.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Except the bounty would only be 5% of the value of the ship lost.

Clarification:

Commit murder and receive a bounty on you head = to the re-buy insurance on the ship used. That becomes the bounty value.

When the CMDR with the bounty gets killed, the ship used to commit the crime is lost. Total value gone.

Still want to hop in that Corvette and risk losing 500Mil so someone can collect a 25Mil reward?

 

[verminstar]

You've still got the same exploit issue though.

We're friends and we both have these mega bounties.

You jump into a sidey and I kill you, pocketing the bounty.
We do ithis the other way around.

End product: Minimal loss.

Unless player kills are taken into consideration. If a player with a low combat rank is recorded as making regular player kills, then they would then be identified as a pirate/griefer whatever they wanna call themselves. The system can then decide if a player with a known record for piracy and a bounty of their own, should receive a bounty. The lower the combat rank, the lower the payout.

The effects of this are multi faceted. Pirates with a low combat rank will only be interdicted by simple minded AI which will be childs play for them to avoid or deal with. With a much lower bounty payout based on combat rank, they will be forced/encouraged to raise their rank within the game to get the full rewards. This in turn will mean they have to face the same nightmare AI that those with a higher rank have to deal with.

 

[Drumatiko]

Who is sending the security then?

Yea sure but then it's still gameplay > realism you just believe that the realistic choice is the better one for gameplay in this case.

I say it's stupid because I really doubt anyone would enjoy this game if it was really realistic.

I don't think we should remove solo and I do think crime and punishment, as in the crimes themselfs as well e the punishments to be revisited. I'm just not entirely sure what should be done apart from every profession in this game needs to be hit with some risk vs reward but I don't agree with most of these recent changes, like missile Vipers jumping in while you pirate destroying limpets and cargo (apparently they now send a conda and 4 eagles in high sec systems) while still piracy (at least PvP piracy paying like crap and generally being unrewarding with all the cheap logging and whatnot. I know it can feel very rewarding that you took someones power plant out but then you come to the cargo and while still somewhat satisfying you know it's nothing compared to what the trader makes in an hour. I also know it can feel very satisfying to avoid and escape a pirate or a blockader but sadly not enough people even give that a chance. I know even being pirated can be fun for both parties. Early on on the Xbox version people didn't log often and I made plenty of friends pirating and whatnot, now it's mostly filed with people of the cancerous mentality of "gotta min/max gotta get that A grade shields". So I definitely think PvP piracy, bounty hunting and all out war is a must for a game to claim to have a living and breathing universe. But if people want "special" consequences to killing a player but not an NPC then I think that we should have "special" rewards to "winning" (pirating getting a bounty or a voucher etc) over a player or else killing an NPC should have the exact same consequences as killing a player.

Now we are getting somewhere, thanks!


The factions which i worked hundreds of hours for would send security i think, but let's just leave it at that (lets agree to disagree on this part).

Your second paragraph addresses some valid points to which i can agree;
- One should be able to make some money by using piracy.
- One should be able to make a blockade, though i would like to see it being difficult to maintain the blockade.
I will come back on this later on in this post.

Combat logging is caused by;
1. People not wanting to lose anything at all, and will do it from the start. I guess this group is rather small. If you can still make some progress while having a occasional loss, then most people will take the loss. The rest of them will go to a PvE group i think (nothing wrong with PvE btw!!!).
2. People who have lost a lot already, and are on their last resources. I understand why they would combat log.
3. People who feel they don't stand a chance when they do not have a combat build. I believe this is the biggest group, especially in the situation when you get pulled from supercruise by a wing.
4. People who have a cargo hold full of engineering materials and don't want tens of hours to go to waste. I understand why they would combat log (it's just too tempting).
5. People who have been killed over and over again.

* When repeated player killing is reduced (piracy is not just destruction), and piracy be made economical, then group 2, 3 and 5 will be less likely to combat-log. For this to happen a system has to be implemented which makes sure that killing for no reason is not economical. If it is not changed, then people will keep combat-logging (or disconnecting/block certain IP-adresses with applications like netlimiter).
* Group 4 is a small group (i think!). If storage would be available, then people would have less to lose (and pirate less to gain since there is less cargo, so i admit this is a bit iffy)
* Group 1,.. well you can't have everything

Now, back to the piracy/profit issue. Let's assume all pirates agree to stop killing the other players on sight, and the other players stop combat logging since there is a big chance they can get away with some minor damage (hallelujah, a miracle has happened). The pirate gets some cargo and makes a buck. The player keeps some cargo and minimizes the loss (i assume not all cargo would/should be claimed, but then again maybe i'm naive here). Every time the pirate robs only a certain percentage of cargo (10%?, 20%?), then security would increase slowly. Kill someone, or rob them clean, and the security would rise fast. This simple system would make it possible for both parties to earn some money with fun gameplay.

Am i sure it would work? Nope.
Do i think it would a an improvement? Absolutely!
Would i combat log to a normal pirate? Nope, i trade in a modded cutter which is armed to the teeth and shielded like the Bismarck (please dont shoot my rudder with a torpedo). If you can rip the cargo out of my hands, then it is yours.

Apologies to all, this post has become longer then i anticipated.

PS. does anyone know how to enable reply-notifications on this forum? Currently i have to check all topics of the previous day to see if i have gotten a reply (not really practical).