Combat logging experiment in Cail, Results

Goose4291

Banned
<snip link to naming and shaming>

feast yer' eyes, cap'n

It always upsets me how long that list is.

Just to play devil's advocate and for clarification, before that's tweaked for naming and shaming:

(i) How do you distinguish between task logging and menu logging.
(ii) what sort of verification is used prior to wedging someones name on such a list.

Edit: well that happened quicker than expected.
 
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As someone who came back to ED after a long break...

Waaaaaaait a damn minute.

You're telling me there is / was a CG event that's "open only"? Who, in their right mind, thought of this?! This seems like a huge precedent, and learning that people combat-log is absolutely not surprising.

And then some people have the audacity to write things like "no one forced them to play open" or variants of thereof? This is crazy! And THEN you have the typical pro-PVPers arguing against logging and pro-PvEers arguing why the whole thing is messed up, and neither group is listening to the other... I mean, those two groups never could reach a consensus, but when I read this thread is seemed no one was responding to the other side. But perhaps it's for the best, as verbal abuse could start flying if that were the case.

In case it's not apparent, I'm pro-PVE. I rarely poke into Open - at most to refuel people (registered Fuel Rat here), and whilst I'd love to see more CMDRs on my travels and be able to wave them "hello" and "goodbye" I've read and heard way too many horror stories about gank-squads out for blood; not even for any in-game gains, really, just to mess up someones day. And then when one considers that PvP crime has next to no repercussions I'm surprised anyone is still surprised by combat logging...
 
Nope, all of them were shielded.
I also tried to avoid harmless and mostly harmless ships for I thought to leave what I suspected were new players alone.

IMHO, it cames after engineers, before this version I usually played in OPEN, and combat any interdiction and try to low wake or high wake when things were gettting bad. After engineers mods, you can be destroyed in just 13 seconds no matter the ship you have. That's the real problem, the balance that the game had (mass-size-speed), was truncated, and now a modded ship with great mass and size, can reach a little one unless you combat log or menu log.
 
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If Players are forced into open mode to access "game content" then they should have have the right to combat log if they get interdicted by a non NPC player.
They are only in Open mode because it was the only way they could access the Clues.

This whole thing would be a non issue if FDEV had done it in the right way, and made it NPC's that had the clues, so everyone could access the clues no matter what mode they were in.
 
Early on there was a lot of talk about what FD was going to do to Combat Loggers.

I can't actually recall how many, if any penalties were actually handed out, but if there were any FD didn't make it common knowledge.

I suspect that currently, the only penalty for Combat Logging is that the logger gets to not lose anything.

If it's as widespread as it seems, it has probably gotten to the point that FD probably doesn't have the resources available to actually do much of anything about it.

I knew players back when there were supposed to be penalties that were caught on video and even openly admitted that they logged and never heard a thing from FD even though we knew that they had been reported to FD.

Seems like sanctions for Combat logging were nothing more than an FD bluff that they hoped would slow it down a bit, but that appears to be quite the failure.

Everyone seems to be aware that there's no consequence for doing the Combat Logging maneuver and thus it continues to be a primary tactic for more and more (ab)users.

FD - Credibility?

Please, not on the same line...
 
How about you get beaten up on the street? YOUR risk. You could have stayed at home. Outside most people are nice, but some are not. So its your fault if you get beaten up and robbed.

You are quite the advertisement of the superior morals and maturity of those who Avoid Open, and look down on, shun and attempt to shame those that play in open.
 
It's pretty clear.

1) Combat log during interdiction
The ship just disappears during the tunnel sequence

2) Combat log after submitting or losing interdiction
The ship, once again, disappears instantly or doesn't show up in the radar after I succesfully interdict it

I thought this might be the case. This could be simply down to the matchmaking server either unable to, or failing to place you and the other player in the same instance. This is by no means an indication of combat logging. As I recall there were many CMDRs reporting problems of this nature during the Hunt, where players in open were unable to complete interdictions or drop in on the wake of the target ships.

The inferences you draw, are in no way supported by the evidence you present. At the very best your 'evidence' alludes to a problem with entering an instance with another player, it also suggests that the problem lies with your end of the network connection, as you experienced so many events.

Your methodology was flawed, taking no account of equally likely explanations, you failed to control for these other explanations (hint: you could have noted the CMDRs names and contacted them in game if they reappeared and asked them about their experience or, You might have contacted some of them before interdicting them and if they agreed, interdicted them and recorded the outcome). You failed to define in your report, the criteria for deciding that the player had combat-logged, you assumed the conclusion in the data you presented. Rather than doing anything so simple, you presented your findings as conclusive evidence of combat-logging. Confirmation bias at its finest, anywhere outside of a Social Studies class this report would have got a "See me afterwards" note.

Next time you might want to consider all the possible explanations that might fit the scenario BEFORE accusing CMDRs, even though anonymously, of breaking Frontier's rules.

Having typed all of the above, I realised how angry this made me therefore;
To the MOD.s.
Please consider closing this and other similar threads when they are opened. The ONLY correct place for these matters to be handled is through Frontier support, where the real facts behind the OP's 'findings' can be ascertained and action, where appropriate can be taken.

Thank you.
 
I'm unclear about this Cail thing. I see there's a CG there, on the Mission Board. It doesn't mention being Open Only. Where is that stated?

It isn't, it is just a propaganda tool by the "oppressed" non open players to use.
They are being hard done by, by a CG than can be completed by solo and PG, because it is somehow forcing them to be in Open, when it isn't.
But we must always be reminded the mere existence of Open and players in Open ruin the game for them.

We should all be ashamed we Clock Open, it harms them So much, every time we do so.
 
I think it's great that they made that CG open only. Hell, I wish they'd do more of it. All CGs open only, and all PP stuff open only *AND* add a credits bonus of say 10% to all activity done in open in order to compensate for the slightly higher risk involved which in turn results in less profit due to sacrificing some cargo-space/jump range for proper defensive and offensive modules, and of course the occasional rebuy due to PVP action.

In Elite: Carebears Edition (solo/private group) one can min-max without any discernible risk. In Elite: Dangerous, ie open, not so much.

Having played some 99.99% of the time in open, I can't say I've been overly bothered by player interdictions. Most I meet, I throw a salute. Some even salute back. Then there are the random chats when docked or by chance meeting some stranger down on a planet or wherever. Most playing in open are quite friendly and have no ill intentions.

Nearly all my rebuys have been from quite willingly going into battle. Wing(s) vs Wing(s), and having extensive PVP experience I know how to be prepared and handle myself on the rare occasion I get interdicted when going about my daily business - which these days center around gathering materials and data for upgrades.

First rule of open is that you accept the risk. In that regard, I'd consider both menu-quitting and yanking the plug/force client shutdown to be cheating. FD went a baby-step in the right direction when increasing menu-quit (when in danger) from 0 to 15 seconds. But it is still too short. 30 seconds would be better, a full minute ideal. so what about the plug-yankers and ctrl-alt-del crowd? From a technical point of view, it is entirely possible to transfer a ship instance from one client/instance to another. How NPCs work afterall. So if the client suddenly goes offline, the players ship is treated like an NPC that is dead in the water for a minute before disappearing. Should it be blown to bits, the next time the yanker logs on, he's met by the rebuy screen rather than an empty instance.

Second rule of open is that you go nowhere without the means to get out of a sticky situation or fight back. None of my ships zoom around with minimalist shields or glorified laser-pointers for defense. Grade A shields of biggest or next to biggest size that will fit is in order. As are Chaff, Point-Defense, Shield-Boosters and even SCBs, even if just a tiny one to hold over until one can flee.

Third rule is to have friends to help out. To teach you how to fight or flee properly, and if need be wing up and provide mutual support.

This is getting long, but I'll end with a little anecdote. About a month ago I got interdicted by a player for the first time in a long time. I was just minding my own business, getting back home from a mining-trip in my Fed. Dropship, cargo full of mined goodies I needed for some engineer upgrade or other. My assailant was in an FDL. No need to panic, just submit, hit the boost button a couple of times until the FSD was cooled down and jump to another system (no masslock then). Jumped back again, FDL still there, but out of position to re-engage. Made it to home-station, picked up my Corvette and the assistance of two friends in FDLs, winged up and went hunting.

Through our extensive intelligence network, we learned his position. He was lurking in a neighbouring system trying to do the same to other people. We soon found him there, interdicted him, and proceeded to promtly turn his shiny FDL into space-dust. He actually respawned at our home-station, as that is where he last docked. We found him there as we went back to get out of our PVP ships and back into our doing-business-ships. We had a nice little chat, no hurt feelings or anything. All happy and had a bit of action. We've not since seen him trying any funny business in our home system though :)

And happenings like that, is why I play in open. Yes it is more dangerous, but also a lot more fun.
 
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I think it's great that they made that CG open only. Hell, I wish they'd do more of it. All CGs open only, and all PP stuff open only *AND* add a credits bonus of say 10% to all activity done in open in order to compensate for the slightly higher risk involved which in turn results in less profit due to sacrificing some cargo-space/jump range for proper defensive and offensive modules, and of course the occasional rebuy due to PVP action.

In Elite: Carebears Edition (solo/private group) one can min-max without any discernible risk. In Elite: Dangerous, ie open, not so much.

Having played some 99.99% of the time in open, I can't say I've been overly bothered by player interdictions. Most I meet, I throw a salute. Some even salute back. Then there are the random chats when docked or by chance meeting some stranger down on a planet or wherever. Most playing in open are quite friendly and have no ill intentions.

Nearly all my rebuys have been from quite willingly going into battle. Wing(s) vs Wing(s), and having extensive PVP experience I know how to be prepared and handle myself on the rare occasion I get interdicted when going about my daily business - which these days center around gathering materials and data for upgrades.

First rule of open is that you accept the risk. In that regard, I'd consider both menu-quitting and yanking the plug/force client shutdown to be cheating. FD went a baby-step in the right direction when increasing menu-quit (when in danger) from 0 to 15 seconds. But it is still too short. 30 seconds would be better, a full minute ideal. so what about the plug-yankers and ctrl-alt-del crowd? From a technical point of view, it is entirely possible to transfer a ship instance from one client/instance to another. How NPCs work afterall. So if the client suddenly goes offline, the players ship is treated like an NPC that is dead in the water for a minute before disappearing. Should it be blown to bits, the next time the yanker logs on, he's met by the rebuy screen rather than an empty instance.

Second rule of open is that you go nowhere without the means to get out of a sticky situation or fight back. None of my ships zoom around with minimalist shields or glorified laser-pointers for defense. Grade A shields of biggest or next to biggest size that will fit is in order. As are Chaff, Point-Defense, Shield-Boosters and even SCBs, even if just a tiny one to hold over until one can flee.

Third rule is to have friends to help out. To teach you how to fight or flee properly, and if need be wing up and provide mutual support.

This is getting long, but I'll end with a little anecdote. About a month ago I got interdicted by a player for the first time in a long time. I was just minding my own business, getting back home from a mining-trip in my Fed. Dropship, cargo full of mined goodies I needed for some engineer upgrade or other. My assailant was in an FDL. No need to panic, just submit, hit the boost button a couple of times until the FSD was cooled down and jump to another system (no masslock then). Jumped back again, FDL still there, but out of position to re-engage. Made it to home-station, picked up my Corvette and the assistance of two friends in FDLs, winged up and went hunting.

Through our extensive intelligence network, we learned his position. He was lurking in a neighbouring system trying to do the same to other people. We soon found him there, interdicted him, and proceeded to promtly turn his shiny FDL into space-dust. He actually respawned at our home-station, as that is where he last docked. We found him there as we went back to get out of our PVP ships and back into our doing-business-ships. We had a nice little chat, no hurt feelings or anything. All happy and had a bit of action. We've not since seen him trying any funny business in our home system though :)

And happenings like that, is why I play in open. Yes it is more dangerous, but also a lot more fun.

[zZzZz]
 
At least we've all forgotten why everyone was in the system in the first place. Less said about that the better.

Im beginning to think we should have more player on player interdictions that don't end with hardpoints deployed. Maybe it will Make people more comfortable with them.

I used to do a lot when I was with a player group in our system and I don't think anyone logged on me, but we would always tell them we were pulling them for a routine security scan first.
 
I thought they are finally going to do something after somebody combatlogged on educating ed...
re: combat logging. I see it like this -

I play the game to explore, trade and do sciency things. Some PvPer wants to ruin my game by attacking me, I'm going to ruin THEIR game by logging. Cos.. just cos. They attack me, no-one wins. Not me. not them. It's a protest move.

just to add, I always play in private groups or Solo, so I hardly ever meet them. But if I'm forced to occupy the same space as them (like in the current "Hunt") then I'm playing it my way, not theirs. Blame FD, not me.
well, according to your comment you're only griefer not them...
 
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There you go. You are wanted when you interdict someone. And how is the police response? You should not be able to stay in the system when you are wanted. This will end almost every "experiments" like you did.
 
There you go. You are wanted when you interdict someone. And how is the police response? You should not be able to stay in the system when you are wanted. This will end almost every "experiments" like you did.


No, when you interdict someone you get a fine, not a bounty.
 
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