This may sound condescending, but those 75% outside the forums probably contain a lot of people who simply haven't really thought it through. The ramifications (e.g. taxi meta) may take a lot of people by surprise in the end.
Remove rebuy from the game?
- Thread starter babelfisch
- Start date
This may sound condescending, but those 75% outside the forums probably contain a lot of people who simply haven't really thought it through. The ramifications (e.g. taxi meta) may take a lot of people by surprise in the end.
Brett C
Frontier
If insurance were to be removed, we would end up with a 'cannon of rage' on these forums and reddit from a very enraged community. Not something we want to exactly do...
AFAIR there wasn't any mention of such a mechanic in the DDF. In Path of Exile there are cutthroat events where the killer gets all of the victim's loot and some of its experience. I suppose some adaptation can be found in Elite, where you can scavenge a player's wreck, maybe for materials?
But in any case, even in the proposed Ironman implementation, I'd venture to say there will be lots of PvP players willing to kill others just for the bragging rights, just to thin the herd. They would consider their reward symbolic. Being able to reach an expensive ship and staying alive in Ironman would be quite a feat.
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Can you link that poll? For my curiosity. Were you referring to the one on Reddit? Because I have my doubts about the validity of that one.
If insurance were to be removed, we would end up with a 'cannon of rage' on these forums and reddit from a very enraged community. Not something we want to exactly do...
...of course not, you did that with the Instant Ship Transfer announcement
If insurance were to be removed, we would end up with a 'cannon of rage' on these forums and reddit from a very enraged community. Not something we want to exactly do...
Obviously insurance/rebuy shouldn't be removed, but IMHO I think it would make a LOT of sense, at least to me personally, if it weren't instant. So when you die, instead of rebuy and pop back up in the same ship it behaves differently based on if you have other ships or not. For example: You have a couple other ships, you respawn into one of them and then there is a time delay on when the ship you lost is replaced. Or if you don't have other ships, it starts you up in a 'loaner' until the insurance replacement is ready.
I didn't think it through either, but I haven't really followed the whole thing anyway. There is teleporting in Naval Action - there are limits and it's kinda sensible. I guess this will be similar in ED.
There is a thing that it one the one hand facilitates traveling and cuts down the tedious - on the other hand it facilitates meeting people which is pretty important if you want to blow up stuff in large player encounters. No one like sailing for an hour just to miss the enemy grand fleet by 5 minutes.
If insurance were to be removed, we would end up with a 'cannon of rage' on these forums and reddit from a very enraged community. Not something we want to exactly do...
The other option is the EVE style option where you get an insurance payout (80% the value of the ship) but not an actual replacement ship. This is more of a thing because in EVE everything is manufactured by players, from the raw materials to the finished product (ship) so replacing the ship would effectively "dup" those resources and screw with the market simulation. No reason why the old hulk couldn't be salvaged and fed back into the system though.
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doesn't simulate to this degree however, so a replacement ship makes sense, and saves the player time - which is key as many people don't have the time to rebuild from that kind of loss.Still, it's an interesting idea.
No voluntary polls are statistically significant, and only reflect the opinion of interested and attending parties.
Not to mention that unless it's some highly specialized ship and equipment you're likely to everything you need to remake the ship locally and you could easily do it in game rather than using out of game resources. And that's if you (or your corp) doesn't have spares ready. Worst case scenario you'd have to get buy from one of the trade hubs and even then you could probably have it all delivered thanks to contracts.
Manually replacing a ship and all modules would be quite a tedious process in Elite, and that's before we consider engineered modules.
don't remove re-buy, just make it not automatic... i like eve's implementation, with the caveat that with engineer mods, requiring a player to re-roll all those mods would create a HUGE outcry.. so my proposal, is you get blown up, you get to re-buy your ship. once you do, you have to pay for insurance, and you can choose the level of insurance, but it expires at some point. (maybe make that a variable too)... best part, is the more often you blow up, the more expensive insurance gets. then have multiple insurance agencies throughout the galaxy... might have to travel a bit to get better insurance rates because you're known around one area to get blown up for no good reason. heck, go crazy with it... each company covers different events.. one company charges more, but specifically covers CZ's, while others, who are cheaper, specifically don't... so, CZ's, res sites by risk level, unident signals (might be able to get coverage for distress signals, but not for weapons fire detected).. dunno, it's just an idea.
again though, engineers mods, since they weren't destroyed in the original implementation, you're not going to be able to destroy them now without massive blowback
heh, i can see it now..
guy1: hey, lets go do some Combat zones!
guy2: i can't, this ship doesn't have CZ insurance
guy1: ... idiot
again though, engineers mods, since they weren't destroyed in the original implementation, you're not going to be able to destroy them now without massive blowback
heh, i can see it now..
guy1: hey, lets go do some Combat zones!
guy2: i can't, this ship doesn't have CZ insurance
guy1: ... idiot
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I'm all for insurance and rebuy. No way am I prepared to lose my 200 million Anaconda and have to pay that to get it back again.
It's ok for those that have exploited the game in the past to get billions of credits but for those of us that have over 300 hours in the game and earned our credits honestly then we deserve to keep the rebuy
Give the exploiters their iron mañ mode and leave the rest of us alone to play the game as is.
It's ok for those that have exploited the game in the past to get billions of credits but for those of us that have over 300 hours in the game and earned our credits honestly then we deserve to keep the rebuy
Give the exploiters their iron mañ mode and leave the rest of us alone to play the game as is.
I can't see how having no re-buy could ever work.
Several of the players I know lose ships all the time. They shoot stuff, they get blown up, they laugh and play again. Getting blown up in Elite Dangerous is like getting killed in a Mario game. It's going to happen. If they had to restart in a free Sidewinder each time, I doubt they'd play much at all. Besides, the button to play Iron-man is already in the options menu.
Just my own opinion here: Sure some insurance costs can be annoying for getting blasted, but traders get the absolute worst side of the deal! Their cargo is lost, and is uninsurable! Cargo loss in the millions can easily exceed the ship rebuy costs.
It's like traders are hit with double or even triple rebuy losses, due to the uninsured cargo risks.
Several of the players I know lose ships all the time. They shoot stuff, they get blown up, they laugh and play again. Getting blown up in Elite Dangerous is like getting killed in a Mario game. It's going to happen. If they had to restart in a free Sidewinder each time, I doubt they'd play much at all. Besides, the button to play Iron-man is already in the options menu.
Just my own opinion here: Sure some insurance costs can be annoying for getting blasted, but traders get the absolute worst side of the deal! Their cargo is lost, and is uninsurable! Cargo loss in the millions can easily exceed the ship rebuy costs.
It's like traders are hit with double or even triple rebuy losses, due to the uninsured cargo risks.
<Facepalm> "It's really the same mechanic..." Er. NO. IT. ISN'T.
One is a way round an unacceptable barrier to play (that could be improved, certainly by Escape pods, or Ironman mode for those willing). The other is a convenience.
If insurance were to be removed, we would end up with a 'cannon of rage' on these forums and reddit from a very enraged community. Not something we want to exactly do...
can we do it as an april fools day prank.
I'd like to see the proof of this myself.
The number of responses to the megathread about instant ship transfer (by which I mean votes in the poll, not just the number of forum replies) ought to speak volumes. When you have over 2500 members in a poll, that is a legitimate sample size in statistical terms - that's no longer subject to loose interpretations, like some with maybe 25 votes would be.
So I need to see this other poll to judge how seriously it can be taken in comparison.
Why not have a new screen before the insurance screen.
Just says 'Do you want your commander to die or be rescued?
If you click die then a box appears in which you must enter you passcode to proceed to clear the save.
If you click rescued then on the insurance screen. It is assumed rescue is always possible and for the players sake rescue is instaneous.
The demerits of this:
Another screen to pass each time you die, that's about it.
Frontier might have an even better plan for player death or escape that this clashes with.
The merits:
Maybe more commanders will play self imposed ironman mode with question being put this way at the point of ship death.
If code used to lock out clear save only the determined will do it, not wrong click by mistake perma deaths.
Scope for adding cutscene or other non pilot death alternatives, escape pod or whatever.
Sort of explains to the player what happens to you after ship death.
Just says 'Do you want your commander to die or be rescued?
If you click die then a box appears in which you must enter you passcode to proceed to clear the save.
If you click rescued then on the insurance screen. It is assumed rescue is always possible and for the players sake rescue is instaneous.
The demerits of this:
Another screen to pass each time you die, that's about it.
Frontier might have an even better plan for player death or escape that this clashes with.
The merits:
Maybe more commanders will play self imposed ironman mode with question being put this way at the point of ship death.
If code used to lock out clear save only the determined will do it, not wrong click by mistake perma deaths.
Scope for adding cutscene or other non pilot death alternatives, escape pod or whatever.
Sort of explains to the player what happens to you after ship death.
Much like the poll isn't about giving you all ships for free, it also isn't about clearing your save. You'd only lose that one ship, any others you own and all your credits would still be there waiting for you. So it'd still be "don't fly what you can't buy", it's just the "buy" part would be more expensive.
It's understandable why you would jump to that conclusion though, the poll is very poorly worded.
Just another example of why, in general, this poll is absolutely worthless for making any kind of point about ship transfers. And of course, I would expect strong opposition to going from 95% death discount to 0% anyway, simply due to loss aversion (people just wouldn't want to give up the credits).