All, I see a lot a threads about, my ship was destroyed in seconds...

[lysan]

I run the Class 7A on my Type-9, with 3x 0A boosters. Good for about 535MJ, IIRC. Carries 404 tons.

Last night as I was seconds from dropping into a station, a pirate messaged in SC. After dropping, I boosted toward the station, hoping to drag the pirate along and maybe into the stations fire.

Well the pirate dropped in front of me, not behind! A Diamondback of some kind, he bounced off my shields like a bug, without leaving a trace.

Pretty stout so far. I remember having a chuckle at the power the 8A must offer.

It's insane, however good because that is all you got in a T9, weapons sock because of its glasia turning rate.

160.000.000 is also not cheap, not even in these days of free CG money.

 

[SkipRat]

I assume you are only referring to PVP here?

Even NPC's can shred, if they have the right setup...

 

[Defector]

I forgot to set my power management the other day, and when I deployed hard points, my shields went down. My corvette was taken down in seconds. David Braben should have called me and told me I didn't have enough power to run everything. Fix your game Frontier. Also, I dunno, griefers.

 

[SkipRat]

SkipRat: do you get payed for your negative propaganda? I am really struggling to understand you.

You mean a non Horizon player has no chance if he is going to trade? As long as your opponents are human players, you might be right in some cases.

But just take an Orca with A rated thrusters. 435 m/s boost speed is more than enough to run from any interdictor. Point defense and chaff as defense. Stuff in three medium mine launchers and you can kill most of the (npc) interdictors while running. That way you can deliver 156 tons of cargo very safely. I did it for quite a while.

You may argure that this might not work in open, but honestly: do you meet human griefers in open all the time? Would a clever trader really play in open?

Sorry if I offend you with my post, but I read so many agressive offending post from you, that I think it is ok to express myself this way.

Fly safe commander!

o7

My posts are not negative, they are highlighting what is wrong with the game. Out of the major releases only Horizon comes out with a thumbs up. But that was a major part of the game, and extension of the back bone of the game. Whilst powerplay, cqc and engineers have been more geared to giving the players something to do, but all three of the these have been implemented so wrong. CQC, no lobby system, in order to get 8 friends together and no possibility of creating leagues as you can organise weekly games with random group generation... All of which, completely undermined what CQC was about.

Now back to my post, it is no my fault that FD are getting things wrong and I Am sorry that you pointed out that an Orca is better for trading than a trader specific ship due to it's speed, which may not help in all cases.

I don't want to play the game in solo, I want to play in open, but i can't because there literally is no balance at all within this area. So i am sorry, but i am passionate about this game, since it's release there has been a few things that have improved the game, the rest have taken more away.

And I will give an honest opinion about what I see, rather than pretending that everything is okay and FD are doing a grand job, they have done a fair job, but I would't say it was grand.

 

[Kaybe]

Agreed.

The AI stopped having down syndrome with 2.1, and players *should* expect their slow lightly equipped ships to be in danger from AI combat ships equipped for combat.

Honestly, as long as players use A rated thrusters, and carry at least one chaff launcher and one point defense system, they should be fine. I find the biggest danger from NPCs now is that they LOVE to spam missiles and take out your thrusters.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

I've never understood why people put a bi-weave shield on, then stack shield boosters on it.

The whole point of bi-weave is that they recharge faster when they break, but they aren't very strong compared to normal shields. If you put a bi-weave on then load up on shield boosters it basically removes the quick recharge and you're still stuck with a shield that doesn't have the strength of a normal shield with the same amount of boosters.

I could see it working if you turn off the boosters each time your shields drop with the bi-weaves but I doubt many people do that unless they loaded for combat and have the experience to know the effect boosters have on shield capacity/recharge rates.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

BI-weave with booster will still recharge fast compared to a standard one ; this thread has a interesting discussion on bi-weave modding and boosters..https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...sanity-check-my-planned-shield-upgrade-please

 

[Keybuk]

But what I do not see is the configuration of said ships.

I posted one to support, so I'll respond to this.

Configuration of ship was 3A shields, plus engineer mods; 0A shield booster, plus engineer mods; 2D Hull Reinforcement Package; Military Grade Composite hull. Four pips were to shields, so resistance should have been maximum.

I'm not aware of any in-game way to make this ship tougher.

 

[goemon]

That is completely misleading. There is no option if your ship is not ungraded... Sorry, I have no idea what planet you are on, but it is not most certainly not planet truth. ... To many God builds around with no weaknesses...

non-consensual pvp is optional, because you have the option of three modes to play this game. open - group - solo. as i have said, i personally wouldn't take my engineered multipurpose python for a trading CG in open at the moment.

 

[JesusRocks1988]

I agree with most people on here - survivability is about your build, as well as honing your escape skills.

When I went over to the Pleiades Sector to see the alien ship, I was flying my stripped Asp Explorer, which is built wholly for exploration.
That's D-rated, low class everything aside from FSD. 6A AFMU, 3D Shield, 6A Fuel Scoop. ADS, DSS, 8T Cargo Rack. No weapons, no utility mounts.
FSD was engineered to grade 5. Thrusters had grade 3 clean drive tuning.

I still survived the myriad interdictions by NPC bounty hunters outside of the bubble - herein lies the skill. Even a risky build can be manageable with skill in evasion. Never had any spammed missiles hit me, because I'm flying erratically waiting for my FSD to charge up again.

 

[DaveB]

The bottom line is you build the ship you want to fly for the role you want to fly it in. Survivability is more of a factor now than it was before. Put military composites on the hull, reserve a utility mount for a point defense turret, run a decent shield and be prepared to run like heck while crapping mines all over the solar system if you must. You don't need engineering assistance to survive, but if you want to make of fight of it you'd better have a few of those buffs because it's pretty certain that the guy shooting at you does.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

BI-weave with booster will still recharge fast compared to a standard one ; this thread has a interesting discussion on bi-weave modding and boosters..https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...sanity-check-my-planned-shield-upgrade-please

Ok, but the ship in question is unmodified and the optimal shield mass (285) is lower than hull mass. (400)

Sure it recharges faster than normal shields but even still it'd be minutes when seconds are what matters. As a trader, wouldn't it make sense to just have stronger shields instead of worrying about recharge time since when the shields are down, they're basically dead very quickly after?

Just a quick swap of the mods on the coriolis link shows:
4A shields - 719Mj - recovery 3:24 - recharge 5:59
4C biweave - 488Mj - recovery 1:40 - recharge 2:15

Sure the recharge and recovery is around double, but the total shield strength for escaping am engagement is better too.

Unless you're going to be in a situation where you're constantly under fire and needing a quick recovery rate, it just makes more sense to me to have stronger shields that may give you the seconds needed to escape properly. I think in this situation recovery time isn't the deciding factor on whether this trade conda is killed or not.

On a combat ship, sure, bi-weave is the way to go since it means much less time spent avoiding fire while the shield recovers, but for a trader with no engineering, I think Mj of shield would matter more than recovery time.

I'm not sure it would make much of a difference on that specific build though TBH. The shields are just too undersized to make that much of a difference on time to kill.

I just skimmed through the thread you posted so I may be missing something but those are my thoughts on the matter at least.

 

[goemon]

As a trader, wouldn't it make sense to just have stronger shields instead of worrying about recharge time since when the shields are down, they're basically dead very quickly after?

definetly.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Oh I agree not a build i'd of been willing to take off in for sure, and I agree for a escaping trader total str is the way to go and I'd personally only run a size 4 in a conda if it was a rngineered prismatic with a few boosters.

 

[hammerreborn]

Point defence rules against missiles as long as you put them in the right place. My little hardcore Courier has two of them and it dances around anyone with missiles.

And the explosions are pretty.

Cheers,

Drew.

So if I'm reading this right, I need to shoot a missiles out of the sky in a courier with point defenses in order to open the Rift!

People keep talking up the courier, I feel like maybe I should try it when I return to the bubble. I'm sitting on 60 + 10 mil cash.

 

[Marcns007]

are prismatic shields still available?

 

[hammerreborn]

are prismatic shields still available?

Yes. I recently got them in my clipper. And boy they were expensive.

 

[Med_Man555]

oh and don't bother with a conda trader, because you will only be able to carry 16 tons...

I've been doing well with my trade conda, running 400 tons, and I'm able to run from most anything when interdicted or attacked. Now the key word there is RUN, I'm not built for battle, I'm built for large cargo and large jumps. There are plenty of times where I have to swallow my pride and run instead of fighting, even though I'm in an Anaconda. If you're not outfitted for battle, you shouldn't be in battle. The games just not as forgiving as it was in the past.

 

[Zambrick]

That in itself is the issue. You tested using a ship that the large majority of the community cannot afford yet. You also tested using Min Max Build specifications. Again not something people with less than 100 hours would know. You also tested using the best possible engineer mods. This "Test" was set under the most optimum conditions using the best of everything available to you. It really wasn't a test at all as there was no control group.

If you wanted to really test it and prove the point, then remove all the mods and do the same fight again. It will be different story I assure you. Especially if your opponent is running mods.

So it really wasn't a practical test. It was a test for someone who has 3 to 5 hundred hours in the game and lots of time to grind out materials. Do the same test in an A rated vulture or Cobra. You may still survive but your shields will be gone and you have a good chunk of your hull missing.

As for the shooting fish in a barrel NPC analogy I find that crap. The NPCs dont have to pay attention to any of the ships limitations. They can go faster turn quicker and never have to stop firing regardless to the ship type. Unless you have some sort of Engineered shields Especially if you are combat Dangerous or above , then I would say the NPCs have given me more trouble than any player. Even the ones running Pure Shield Booster builds. The only thing that is making the Player "Better" at combat is the Heat Cascade mods and shield Mods. They sure dont fly any better.

Once Heat cascade gets nerfed or removed there will be a bunch of threads on how NPCs are too hard again and I cant kill other players instantly anymore.

 

[Red Anders]

But what I do not see is the configuration of said ships.

Last night I was talking to a CMDR and he was complaining about the same thing, But when I asked what the config was, he stated that he and used the smallest modules he could as he wanted more cargo space and reduced weight for longer range!

here lies the problem, the game is based on trade offs, if you do this and get your butt handed to you by the AI, or another commander, do not complain about it!!! it's the choice YOU made!

to prove my point to him, we jumped in to a wing, and I told him to open fire on my Python, and we would stop once the shields were down, 1 minute later, he stopped firing as My shields were still up
My Config With lvl 5 Engineer mods, on Shields, SCB, Thrusters, PP, PD and Hull. + lvl 3 on the PA's (over charged)
https://coriolis.io/outfit/python/2...f.Iw18eQ==.MwBjYJhBGDvijGjAFlaIA===?bn=Python

Then I did the same to him his shields and 11% hull damage on the first pass.
here is the config that he gave me for his conda. (he stated that he did not want to grind for the engineer mods
https://coriolis.io/outfit/anaconda...2f2i.Iw18ZlA=.Aw18WBMAswMwjiIA?bn=Conda_Cargo.

So like I said, it's all about choices.

The trouble is that often when you try to initiate that conversation with someone they just start screaming about you saying 'git gud' because they seem to think they already know everything about the game. It happened so many times on here after the original 2.1 dropped that I just gave up trying eventually. Kudos to you for still trying to help people.

I was playing right the way through the original 2.1 npcs being in game, didn't lose a ship once. As I said at the time, it has nothing to do with me being some super-epic pilot because I'm not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. It's because with a correctly equipped and configured ship, you don't need to be.

The game has seen two sharp difficulty increases. Pre 1.3 a D-rated trader was fine, even a T7 could destroy an NPC Python with missiles. After 1.3 an A-rated trader was fine. Beam-turreted T9 took out all threats. After 2.1 it's engineers or run.

In a trade ship, I don't see anything wrong with running - I'm not flying it to fight in. I bought a T9 a few weeks back, I've flown trade runs all over the place in it including loads of runs for the recent empire CG. My all three of my ranks are on the final tier (62% deadly, 10% tycoon, 56% pioneer) so no matter which one they use I''m getting deadly and elite npcs for my interdictions. I've had interdictions by elite FAS, FDL, the lot. The most harm I've come to is having one ring of shields dropped and that shield is a 5A so hardly epic, it's just there to stop my military armour getting scratched whilst I'm waking out.