Horizons Interdictions; and why I am leaving E.D. Engineers gameplay.

Gaffa · Sep 3, 2016

G'day all,
well I am over it.

I have spent quite a bit of time playing now (about 10 months) , and am reasonable at this game.
But, these interdiction every time I assemble enough materials to do an upgrade have driven me to start to doubt the sanity of the developers and my own.

I do cargo runs in the A rated Anaconda, which is armed with mines and beam lasers.

Six or seven hours game play a day gets me a nice reward for carrying cargo and then I look at the materials I have assembled to do an upgrade, oh yes just need one more material, which usually is in a system far far away, so off I go, get there and guess what, yup interdicted as soon as I get there.

Now being in an Anaconda the opposition is usually another Anaconda or at least A Federal Gunship, well for a bloke my age, I put up a fair scrap or try to boost away, but when these ship's armament and firepower definitely out weights mine, I don't stand a chance in my A graded and mirror hulled well armed Anaconda.

Crikey, I don't even care about the re-buy cost of 24 million cr's,each time, but it does get a bit annoying losing three ships to the same seniero in three days or nearly every time I am carrying materials to get that upgrade. Like some one said if your carrying materials for an upgrade then you are definitely an open target and magnet for interdiction.

Engineers upgrades, imho, are a brilliant idea,
and I don't mind having to equip a ship to go mining,(and put up with the interdiction). I don't mind equipping another to go to the surface, and use the SRV to look for rare minerals (and then put up with interdiction) and I don't even mind cargo hauling to gain materials, (and put up with constant interdiction's, or even the long hauls to get unlock materials, or the get friendly approaches with Engineers that is required.

BUT, ED, I do mind these over the top senseless , constant interdiction's every time I am ready to upgrade, If ED thinks I am talking out of my hat, then be so kind as to check my player logs and you will see why I am pulling the pin on this brilliant, mostly enjoyable game.

IMHO, I don't believe that I am the only one leaving the ranks of ED for the reason that your rate of interdiction's are over the top, and the firepower and shields of the interdiction ships seems unrealistic. For example no matter what I did with three beam lasers to an Anaconda I was involved with the other day, it's shield would not go below 14%.

Yes ED, I am extremely miffed, have spent a lot of time, and a lot of money , in this game, but as I said I believe that the game play is a bit miss mashed and you need to sort it out before I will come back to gathering material for engineers.

Perhaps, just perhaps, I will take the Anaconda and go exploring for a while, make a few cr's honking around the universe and then hopefully don't get interdicted and destroyed on my return by some mindless, AI, over rated, over the top interdiction ship.

yours aye
D38

foebits · Sep 3, 2016

Not to worry. From what they've told us about the next update they won't be breaking their abysmal record any time soon and you can enjoy another game that the devs actually care about.

Mike Reacher · Sep 3, 2016

Overpowered NPC's were a hassle in the past, and apparently ED did something about it. But now that we (the payers and players) have gone quiet for a while, the mongrel developers have slipped them in again.
You see, an NPC enters the game with a fully A+ rated ship to hunt you down. NPC's don't have to scrounge for materials.
One more thing, a destroyed NPC ship seems to drop materials. (Cheap ones) Destroyed OP NPC's don't drop anything.

Soopyyy · Sep 3, 2016

Gaffa, if you want we can wing up while you do it.

Are you in Aus, if so what time zone?

Martind Forlon · Sep 3, 2016

@OP issue is that you didn't learned use your conda correctly ... use additional armor on trading/mining conda is waste of resources, bcs your main interest should be not lose shields, and with this can engineers help perfectly. You ofc needs to add correct ship energy usage. plus some reverse flying and if target chafs use fixed forward firing mode for turrets. ... you need show some skills, that's it, and it's not so hard ... question is, you want learn use your ship better or continue complain?

Soopyyy · Sep 3, 2016

Best bet is to just not engage. Submit, drop some mines and run.

Only problem with that is currently the game is a bit broken in that the NPC's immediately re-engage ad-nauseum. Ship launched fighters will be interesting...

avow555 · Sep 3, 2016

I feel your pain OP, the materials interdict magnet is woeful as is the entire interdict mini game.
It's not like there have been so many complaints about poorly designed content but this dev team rarely even aknowledge them.
I cringe every time a new feature is being added as they find new ways to inbalance and make the game even less enjoyable.
Currently I barely play 4 hours a week, the bad game features just erode my confidence in what is becoming the most epic fail I have had the mispleasure to participate in.

Next patch will clinch it for me, if it tanks then I suspect a wipe from my hard drive.

Flimley · Sep 3, 2016

Arm the small hardpoints with mine launchers. 3-5 units for a trading vessle will kill all opposition if the npc doesn't move around too much. Otherwise, boost and run.
I do agree that interdictions are becoming an annoyance ...oh... And were always annoying! Twice a week is fine as an occasional challenge. But eight or so times every game session is super duper boring and irritating.

Flimley

Iskariot · Sep 3, 2016

Gaffa said:
Now being in an Anaconda the opposition is usually another Anaconda or at least A Federal Gunship, well for a bloke my age, I put up a fair scrap or try to boost away, but when these ship's armament and firepower definitely out weights mine, I don't stand a chance in my A graded and mirror hulled well armed Anaconda.

I do agree completely that something has to change about the frequency of interdictions and especially the interdictions linked to missions with pirates being magically and inescapably spawned right behind you.
What should definitely be removed from the game are 90% of the interdictions related to cargo in your hold.
Too many npc are spawned with superior supernatural knowledge of what is in your hold and they are even prepared to kill for two tonnes of biowaste. This must change.

But...

I am puzzled about what you describe though.
You state you are in an A-graded Anaconda and nevertheless you get destroyed?
Even when you boost away?

How is this possible?
An A-graded Anaconda is one of the most resilient ships in the game.
You should never get destroyed if you decide to run.
It should not be possible.

I get interdicted all the time.
I am in an A-rated Conda myself and my attackers are mostly Elites in larger ships (as I am Elite myself), like Pythons and Anacondas, but also some FDL.
No npc enemy stands a chance in hell to get through my shields if I decide to submit and boost. It is impossible.

For a long time I carried downsized size 6C bi-weave shields and even then I could always jump away totally unharmed. Sometimes a single ring of my shields got shot away, but even that rarely happened.

Just yesterday I fitted the largest A7 standard shields and shield boosters and no NPC will ever remove even one shield ring if I decide to run.
It simply can not be done! It is technically impossible.
When I decide to fight the A-rated condas (which is what I almost always do) it is not incredibly difficult to destroy them.
They put up a good fight, sometimes I lose my shields and my standard light alloy armour gets damaged, but in a one-on-one I always win.

I am not a young guy. I am a middle aged Frontier Elite II fan, so I have no superior youthful reaction skills or something like that.

I think there must be something wrong with the way you outfitted your ship, or perhaps you are handling interdictions wrong.
I have no idea really, but I am sure of one thing: an A-rated Anaconda is unstoppable when it decides not to engage, but to leave the premises!

This does not solve the problem of too frequent interdictions, but you definitely can improve your chances of survival.
I am sure of it. You should always be able to escape unharmed.

If you review your ship's setup and consider to change how you handle interdictions, you will have no trouble doing anything you want including activities related to the engineers.

Martind Forlon · Sep 3, 2016

@avow555 ... bye

_____________________________
_____________________________

And now some tips for cmdrs which may decide to learn better how to use theirs "annie" for trading/mining without fear about losing theirs ship ... (in fact with some practice you can learn how to smoothly annihilate every NPC trying to take your cargo ... or safely flee)

For start we have here ship setup: Mining conda . This variant offer more as enough offensive, defensive and mining capability and offers very comfortable play when upgraded by engineers. Yes upgraded, if you want "comfort", you need have access to Horizons content. And why 2 heat-sinks? ... personal preference, it's aimed to resist long enough thermal attacks.

Now to upgrades:

first you may feel the need to assure that you will have enough power to run this build. No problem, just 1! lvl power-plant upgrade (you need good roll ofc) can assure that you will have much more energy as offers stock version. You can also optionally think about lvl2-3 upgrade with good roll for powergen integrity loss (smaller is better).
for armor heavy duty
for shield boosters 2xheavy duty and 2x resistant ... with 4 pips in shields you can withstand really huge amount of fire coming against you ...
for shield thermal resistant
for multis: one should be corrosive
for beams: i recommend long-range, with annie you can't sit on target 6
for thruster: i use clean, ... personal preference. You can go for dirty as well.
for mines: Radiant and Ion special effect
for distributor can be good variant charge enhanced (some 2-3lvl with good recharge bonus and small capacity loss)
for FSD: many prefers upgraded jump range, I chose other variant due my liking appear in "busy" areas. Everyone need to decide what fit him better. Here can be worth to mention that with "incoming" possibility store equipment you can have more as one variant of FSD.

Now for interdictions & fight & fleeing

Is good to use at least decent situation awareness. If you see in communication channel direct message about "cargo", is clear that THIS is someone coming after you and is good idea to check what ship he have. Use contacts to mark this ship and look on ship type. In case you will see anaconda, you may decide that is safer flee and adapt on this your further acting.
Here can come small middle-step in case you are still close to sun and not want fight: Simply go close to sun, reduce speed on minimum and turn your annie from star. This infuriated NPC coming after your cargo will simply end "in sun" without being able start interdiction.
Once interdiction starts you can optionally use navigation panel and chose escape system for high-wake. Now try follow interdiction vector and submit. When you will follow vector, you will spin MUCH LESS after been interdicted and it will give you 1-2 seconds for get prepared for next step.
Interdiction usually put attacker behind target and you can use this for your advantage in case you followed previous advice. Put thruster to blue zone, (I usually use flight assist off) and turn your ship. Its nothing difficult and with some small practice you will see that you can turn perfectly against your attacker. Now depends if you want fight or flee ... IF attack: you are in perfect position to do so, simply open fire and take him down. (use reverse thrust + some basic FA off + energy management to keep distance, target under fire and with enough energy for shields, weapons or thrusters as needed); IF flee, kick boost close around him, release mines and smoothly continue escaping. He will lose enough time with turning and mines dealing so you have all the time needed for escape.
tactics described above is optional, you can change it or modify as you only wish to fit best your skills and experience. In case that you will encounter chafing target, you can use turret mode fire forward and with this make your aim right on target (requires some skills)

And this is all for now, using tips above you can learn quite fast that your "non-combat" annie is very far from been "easy" target and you can smile on all NPCs attempts to get your cargo and destroy your ship.

Fly dangerously Cmdrs!

EDIT: fully agree with Iskariot, "A" graded conda is not a ship which should be possible destroy if commander want flee.

foebits · Sep 3, 2016

Martind Forlon said:
@OP issue is that you didn't learned use your conda correctly ... use additional armor on trading/mining conda is waste of resources, bcs your main interest should be not lose shields, and with this can engineers help perfectly. You ofc needs to add correct ship energy usage. plus some reverse flying and if target chafs use fixed forward firing mode for turrets. ... you need show some skills, that's it, and it's not so hard ... question is, you want learn use your ship better or continue complain?

The door is where it always was, go learn some reading comprehension. trying to get some RNG mods is what's leading to this.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Martind Forlon said:
@avow555 ... bye

_____________________________
_____________________________

And now some tips for cmdrs which may decide to learn better how to use theirs "annie" for trading/mining without fear about losing theirs ship ... (in fact with some practice you can learn how to smoothly annihilate every NPC trying to take your cargo ... or safely flee)

For start we have here ship setup: Mining conda . This variant offer more as enough offensive, defensive and mining capability and offers very comfortable play when upgraded by engineers. Yes upgraded, if you want "comfort", you need have access to Horizons content. And why 2 heat-sinks? ... personal preference, it's aimed to resist long enough thermal attacks.

Now to upgrades:

first you may feel the need to assure that you will have enough power to run this build. No problem, just 1! lvl power-plant upgrade (you need good roll ofc) can assure that you will have much more energy as offers stock version. You can also optionally think about lvl2-3 upgrade with good roll for powergen integrity loss (smaller is better).

for armor heavy duty

for shield boosters 2xheavy duty and 2x resistant ... with 4 pips in shields you can withstand really huge amount of fire coming against you ...

for shield thermal resistant

for multis: one should be corrosive

for beams: i recommend long-range, with annie you can't sit on target 6

for thruster: i use clean, ... personal preference. You can go for dirty as well.

for mines: Radiant and Ion special effect

for distributor can be good variant charge enhanced (some 2-3lvl with good recharge bonus and small capacity loss)

for FSD: many prefers upgraded jump range, I chose other variant due my liking appear in "busy" areas. Everyone need to decide what fit him better. Here can be worth to mention that with "incoming" possibility store equipment you can have more as one variant of FSD.

Now for interdictions & fight & fleeing

Is good to use at least decent situation awareness. If you see in communication channel direct message about "cargo", is clear that THIS is someone coming after you and is good idea to check what ship he have. Use contacts to mark this ship and look on ship type. In case you will see anaconda, you may decide that is safer flee and adapt on this your further acting.

Here can come small middle-step in case you are still close to sun and not want fight: Simply go close to sun, reduce speed on minimum and turn your annie from star. This infuriated NPC coming after your cargo will simply end "in sun" without being able start interdiction.

Once interdiction starts you can optionally use navigation panel and chose escape system for high-wake. Now try follow interdiction vector and submit. When you will follow vector, you will spin MUCH LESS after been interdicted and it will give you 1-2 seconds for get prepared for next step.

Interdiction usually put attacker behind target and you can use this for your advantage in case you followed previous advice. Put thruster to blue zone, (I usually use flight assist off) and turn your ship. Its nothing difficult and with some small practice you will see that you can turn perfectly against your attacker. Now depends if you want fight or flee ... IF attack: you are in perfect position to do so, simply open fire and take him down. (use reverse thrust + some basic FA off + energy management to keep distance, target under fire and with enough energy for shields, weapons or thrusters as needed); IF flee, kick boost close around him, release mines and smoothly continue escaping. He will lose enough time with turning and mines dealing so you have all the time needed for escape.

tactics described above is optional, you can change it or modify as you only wish to fit best your skills and experience. In case that you will encounter chafing target, you can use turret mode fire forward and with this make your aim right on target (requires some skills)

And this is all for now, using tips above you can learn quite fast that your "non-combat" annie is very far from been "easy" target and you can smile on all NPCs attempts to get your cargo and destroy your ship.

Fly dangerously Cmdrs!

EDIT: fully agree with Iskariot, "A" graded conda is not a ship which should be possible destroy if commander want flee.

How special do we need to be to tell people that RNG mods are the answer to the problem caused by trying to get RNG mods?

Ra'Kaan · Sep 3, 2016

Flimley said:
I do agree that interdictions are becoming an annoyance ...oh... And were always annoying! Twice a week is fine as an occasional challenge. But eight or so times every game session is super duper boring and irritating.

I was gonna post pretty much this, so I'll just quote Flimley instead. ;D

sicksuntzu · Sep 3, 2016

sorry your having a hard time, funny thing when i got my conda it wasnt a rated, well just the thrusters where, and first stop was of to get a DD5 upgrade, then i nicked the 6a reinforced shield from my python. Not had any problems since then. I run a more offensive haul and brawl build, with around 350 cargo and full hugh mc /large mc /medium turretts/small turrets all over charged. thing is i can more or less do everything i want to do in this one ship, though i may jump in the python for mission running, the conda does planet landing, mining, long haul res sites and combat zones, Im curretly working on did so i can get my booster grade 5 sorted which should lose me a bit of weight and give me better shields.

What i am trying to say is just do one thing at a time, sort out your DD maybe get a grade 3, then do shields, these 2 things will make a big difference to ur conda. oh and make sure to outfit and buy conda with the %15 discount which will keep your rebuys cost down, mine is 18m.

Chaz · Sep 3, 2016

foebits said:
How special do we need to be to tell people that RNG mods are the answer to the problem caused by trying to get RNG mods?

He he, you took the words right out of my mouth.

"Gathering engineer commodities causing you problems? What you need is some engineer mods."

Iskariot · Sep 4, 2016

foebits said:
The door is where it always was, go learn some reading comprehension. trying to get some RNG mods is what's leading to this.

How special do we need to be to tell people that RNG mods are the answer to the problem caused by trying to get RNG mods?

I don't think that trying to get engineer mods is leading to this.
What is leading to this is something else.

OP says he has an A-rated anaconda and he still gets destroyed when interdicted by npc.
That should not be possible.
When a cmdr in an A-rated Anaconda decides to run no npc will be able to stop him doing that.
Getting away is a piece of cake. Well... it should be.

So either his A-rated Anaconda is outfitted wrong, or the OP does not know how to handle interdictions.

I would advise OP to have a look at both options.
There are tutorials about interdictions and outfitting everywhere.

Gaffa · Sep 4, 2016

Thank you all for your comments and for your thoughts on tactics.

Firstly.
SNOOPYYY,
I am in Western Australia and have tried to (wing it) but the server has great problems in joining me into a wing, thankyou for the offer.

The cargo Anni has 2 large turreted beam lasers and the remaining hard points are mine launchers.My usual tactics on interdiction are;

On interdiction,
if the interdict-er appears ahead of me, then he is targeted and the beam laser have a go at him while I boost past him.
Then once he is behind me and lined up, he receives a pattern of mines, I usually hit boost then lay a pattern of mines, hit boost again, another pattern of mines, etc until I am well clear and can jump out of the engagement.

As stated I have mirror armour, and A rated shield generator , and two A rated shield boosters keyed to the HOTAS ,maybe it's my pip management skills that is causing me grief with shields falling so quickly.

On interdiction approach I place 2 pips to all, on firing, all pips to beam lasers, and on a ring of shield going down I hit the shield booster.

Gentlemen, thank you all for your comments,
I will read thru them all again and apply the lessons you have learnt and are trying to pass on. Being an older pilot (67) I don't have those fast reaction of the younger ones, so will just have to become like a old fox, more cunning and better prepared with a fight plan for each and every situation.

The other day on interdiction I throttled back and had engaged reverse, the interdictor appeared in front of me and I had a great time melting him away with the beam lasers while continuing to fly backwards, my shields held up to his firings, it was good to have a win.

yours aye
D38

Soopyyy · Sep 4, 2016

Yeah I figured you were from my neck of the woods

I sent you an ingame friends request.

rrobes · Sep 4, 2016

This has been a topic for quite a while and gets reopened when a newer player reaches a certain point in the game. You are not alone in your experience, a-rated ships with any kind of armor WILL NOT STAND UP to the current crop of NPC's, particularly thermal attacks of every type.

You must learn to RUN, RUN, RUN. First upgrade is a dirty drive then some shielding (Farseer). You must not engage until you have some basic mods. How to evade interdictions is a topic that has been covered in the forums; just search and you will see what has worked for others. Weaponry? (McQuinn) Get some 2F MCT, then use the sturdy mount roll (one nickel) multiple times until you get an experimental effect (hopefully thermal or incendiary).

Then get the ship that allows you to do most anything when you can afford it, a Python.

The drawback? You have to invest a lot of time to accomplish these goals (I have over 1550 hrs in) and I still only have two ships, highly modded.

Many of the CMDR's that started the game early in its release had it much easier than today's new players and even when I started, pre-Engineers, you could make millions of CR, fairly easily, in different ways.

Don't get discouraged, you will advance.

Iskariot · Sep 4, 2016

Gaffa said:
Thank you all for your comments and for your thoughts on tactics.

Firstly.
SNOOPYYY,
I am in Western Australia and have tried to (wing it) but the server has great problems in joining me into a wing, thankyou for the offer.

The cargo Anni has 2 large turreted beam lasers and the remaining hard points are mine launchers.My usual tactics on interdiction are;

On interdiction,
if the interdict-er appears ahead of me, then he is targeted and the beam laser have a go at him while I boost past him.
Then once he is behind me and lined up, he receives a pattern of mines, I usually hit boost then lay a pattern of mines, hit boost again, another pattern of mines, etc until I am well clear and can jump out of the engagement.

As stated I have mirror armour, and A rated shield generator , and two A rated shield boosters keyed to the HOTAS ,maybe it's my pip management skills that is causing me grief with shields falling so quickly.

On interdiction approach I place 2 pips to all, on firing, all pips to beam lasers, and on a ring of shield going down I hit the shield booster.

Gentlemen, thank you all for your comments,
I will read thru them all again and apply the lessons you have learnt and are trying to pass on. Being an older pilot (67) I don't have those fast reaction of the younger ones, so will just have to become like a old fox, more cunning and better prepared with a fight plan for each and every situation.

The other day on interdiction I throttled back and had engaged reverse, the interdictor appeared in front of me and I had a great time melting him away with the beam lasers while continuing to fly backwards, my shields held up to his firings, it was good to have a win.

yours aye
D38

When I travel through a system and I intend to run when interdicted I have no pips in weapons.
I have 3 in systems, 3 in engines, or most of the time 2 in systems and 4 in engines.
This ensures that I can boost as often as possible.
My shields will hold anyway and I am out of the 3 km range in no time.
Only ships with missiles will fire outside of the 3 km range and my point defense will take most of those out and the rest do little or no damage at all.

If I intend to fight, my pip configuration depends on the ship that interdicts me.
Weaker targets will be met with 2 pips to shields and 4 to weapons.
They will be dead even before my FSD has cooled down.
An Elite anaconda will initially be met with 4 pips in shields and 2 in weapons for the opening salvos.
I have enough energy for the first salvos with 2 pips in weapons and having 4 pips in shields means that the enemy's first shot do not make a serious dent in my shields.
After that I switch to 3 pips to weapons or even 4. It depends on the situation.
Most of the time 3 is enough to be able to use all my weapons.

Currently my ship is outfitted with a combination of beam and pulse turrets.
The size 3 are pulse and the size 1 and 2 are beam.
My size 4 slot is outfitted with a gimballed multi-cannon.

I do not use mines. I do not see the use for them. If I run the enemy won't keep up with me anyway and I jump before harm is done.
Ships that can keep up easily like the clipper I consider easy kills whatever their rank. Clippers are always Harmless, even if they are Elite.
A Clipper can not threaten an A-rated Anaconda.

Iskariot · Sep 4, 2016

rrobes said:
This has been a topic for quite a while and gets reopened when a newer player reaches a certain point in the game. You are not alone in your experience, a-rated ships with any kind of armor WILL NOT STAND UP to the current crop of NPC's, particularly thermal attacks of every type.

The npc only have the standard weapons they always had.
They do not use engineered weapons.

You must learn to RUN, RUN, RUN. First upgrade is a dirty drive then some shielding (Farseer).

My Anaconda has only an upgraded FSD.
Everything else is standard fair.
You can escape any NPC with ease with standard outfitting.
If you run you should always be safe in an Anaconda.
Unless you have no shields at all of course

.

You must not engage until you have some basic mods.

As I said. I engage any opponent with an un-engineered ship (except for my FSD).
Of course if you engineer your ship you will have an easier time.
No doubt about that.