Modular Terminals - do they exist?

[Infidel Deity]

Well, guys, if you think modular terminals are bad, you'll be relieved to know that getting unknown fragments is better... erm... a little bit.

What you do is you find the right system, then sit in supercruise, waiting for the right signal source to spawn. Its fairly easy. Just sit, and wait and wait and wait and wait. You might get lucky, and one might appear quickly, or you might be waiting 15-20 minutes for the right signal source to spawn. Make sure you have a nice cup of herbal tea ready for that one, and a good book.

Wow!
Awesome game design right there!
Wait, wait AND wait; because you MIGHT get lucky.
Or not. [squeeeee]

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I don't understand

No, you obviously don't.

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It all depends on whether the RNG loves you or hate you. It helps by finding a system where there are lots of missions you can take, but even then, you are at the mercy of the RNG. One person might get offered tons of missions, while the next person might be left mode switching for hours.

Its not really a great design decision leaving progress to the whims of the RNG.

Or for weeks on end and STILL not get any.

No; it's horrible game design.

 

[sndle9]

Well, they could offer a variety of missions then. But at least make your mission rewards more targetted.

Fair enough, I think if we were given a choice of reward would help a lot as well as having missions for all types of player.
Low level, quick missions give a choice of several relatively common rewards to choose from.
High level, or mission chains (for the un-skilled/ill-equipped) give a choice of the rarer components.
It would be good to have the actual engineers bases pretty consistently offer missions for the components too. This would be super helpful too.

 

[Iskariot]

Again I am wondering, if the RNG issue is only (mostly?) one for commanders in their "late game".

I am not sure if I understand this.
Why would it be mostly an issue for cmdrs in their 'late' game?
What is a late game anyway in the context of Elite. I do not play the game that way at all. That is why I have put so many hours in already and I can easily see myself pouring in many thousands more.

I know you are a strong supporter of ED, Iskariot and I admire your positive post history. If you (and others; Ziggy, for example) complain about the game mechanic, I am more inclined to take the negative feedback serious than from those well known all-time-complainers.

However, may I ask, whether or not you have maxed out your other goals in the game? Is there anything to strive for beside engineer mods?

Yes for me there is. I enjoy doing missions, trade runs, bounty hunting etc. I do not fixate on one thing but follow my whims, which keeps the game fun.
-I have not yet done serious mining (I only made 200k) and still plan to do that.
-I still have to A-rate my Cutter or to buy a Corvette (still need to rank up for that too). I still have to try a FAS and an Imperial Courier.
-I also want to buy a Sidewinder again, a-rate it and do combat in it.
-I only recently did my first long range trade runs, because people seemed to like doing it and I discovered I enjoyed the rhythm of it very much.
-I still have not done any true long range exploring, because I wait patiently for more stuff to be added to the universe.
-I still have to engineer some of my ships too, like my FDL and Vulture.

All of this can be achieved while doing missions and "waiting" for one with MTs as a reward to pop up. This is not boring at all. This is playing the game!

Yes, yes. this is definitely true.
I thought about that after I wrote the comment you are responding to.
I must put the modular terminals out of my mind and do what I like and then they will happen eventually.
That will work of course.
But, having said that, it can be quite annoying if you have set yourself a task and want to complete it, like getting access to Qwent, and then not being able to complete that task and perhaps even have to wait for weeks to complete it.
For a game that is a very unusual thing.
It requires a different mindset and I am constantly reminding myself of that, but I find it difficult at times.

So, the real question is: is the cause of all the engineer-boredom the fact that the people affected by it don't have other things to do in ED beside gathering the required materials?

Not in my case. I enjoy being in the Elite Universe and I love the game with a vengeance.
I certainly am not bored doing engineers stuff. I love looting and scavenging and I like sourcing stuff.
But what frustrates me is the fact that I might have to spend 20 hours of playing the game to find a single piece of arsenic, or I might have to do missions for a week to encounter one with the rewards I need.
And what is killing is the uncertainty of some of the game mechanics. Not knowing whether you are going to find the materials in the next 3 to 6 hours is doable, but not knowing whether you might find the stuff in 20 or 30 hours just is too much.
I do not mind having to do missions for a day to finally get the materials/commodities when I know I will actually get them at the end of that day.

But the fact is: Every game will get boring at some point after you "maxed out" .

This will never be a problem for me with a game like ED and it certainly is not now. I am not maxed out as I've explained above.
I simply enjoy being in the ED universe. I can play this game for years to come without getting bored. I am awed all the time by the space flight and by the way a small dot in the distance becomes a real sized planet I can land on. I think ED is awesome. It has rekindled my interest in astronomy for example and in general it is a game that dreams are made off.
I do play other games too. There might be days I do not touch ED, but I always go back to it and when I do I usually spend several hours in it's universe. It is an addiction.

Sorry, Iskariot, my comment grew longer and longer and is only loosely based on your quote. I just took it at an anchor to link my own thoughts on. I am sure you know all this yourself already. As I said, I don't take you as a "complainer" by a far margin!

Don't apologize. It is interesting to think about these things.
And I don't think anybody could take me as a complainer. If anything they might call me a fanboy, because I am. I love the game.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

Thank you for your long and in-depth answer, Iskariot!

Just to clarify: I know there is no (and I don't want to have an) "end game".
I use this term simply to describe the situation in ED, when you achieved all the "official" goals you were interested in and hence there is no further "progression" for you. The point when it doesn't matter if you earn another million in credits, when all ranks are maxed out and all the ships you fly are A-rated.

It's of course, true: There are always more things to do. Self-imposed challenges and never before tried activities. And this is good!
However, those activities could have been done before, if you really wanted. You decided yourself not to do them. This is, what makes them different to objectives the game throws at you: even if you want to, you won't be able to buy your Corvette right now. You don't have the rank.

Personally, I find both goals interesting.
In respect to my hypothesis ("It's mostly people in the "end game" who are frustrated by engineerrs"), it is mostly the later goal that is relevant. Because you have to work for it anyway (some call it "grind", but I loathe this word with all my heart), and waiting for the appearance of MTs as a reward is merely a sideline job.

But I also can empathize the sting of 'wanting something now', of course. Fortunately, I dont feel it so much. Maybe I am more patient, I dont know.

 

[Iskariot]

But I also can empathize the sting of 'wanting something now', of course. Fortunately, I dont feel it so much. Maybe I am more patient, I dont know.

I need to respond to this part.
It is not about 'wanting something now'. Not at all. I am a very patient guy.
It is about the uncertainty of when you might get it, or whether you might get it at all.
What frustrates me is that I can not set myself the goal to acquire certain materials/commodities because it are the gods of RNG that decide whether I will encounter them. I can not use skill or knowledge. I can only wait for it to happen, but nevertheless I am forced in a certain direction and it might take weeks or months.

For example to begin with to get cargo rewards you need to be in a ship that can accept them.
So if I choose to go after the elusive modular terminals I am forced to select certain ships and I must limit myself to certain activities. If I go bounty hunting in a vulture or FDL I sure won't get them.
So I pick a ship that can haul cargo. That is fine if I would then get the damn things. It might take a day of playing ED. That is perfectly fine too. I might have to do a chain of missions that takes me all day, or even several days for all I care, but I would know that at the end I get what I work for.

But currently in ED I might only encounter a mission with modular terminals as a reward after a week, or two weeks. All that time I am looking for these missions, limiting my activities for the sake of modular terminals.
This is frustrating. I know of no other game that has mechanics like this.
Day after day you will play the game not getting the result you are looking for, not being able to complete the goal you set yourself.
And because ED is all about setting your own goals and doing your own thing this can become very frustrating.
You can set yourself the goal to get modular terminals, but the game offers you no agency, you do not get tools to work towards that goal. You just wait for the right dice roll.

I have not flown my Vulture or FDL for many weeks now because of engineer mechanics. Not just for the reason I mentioned above, but mostly because I have engineer commodities on board I have worked hard for, which I can not store. So I am forced to only use certain ships with a large enough cargo hold. I can not use my specialized combat ships anymore and I cannot visit Hazres anymore to blow of some steam.

All this is frustrating.

I want agency, I want tools to work towards a goal.
For example I want to be able to scan a planet and then get an indication where on that planet I will find arsenic or niobium. I would still have to search that area, which is fine as I love the SRV scanner mechanic, but I would know that what I look for is actually there. I do not want to drive around for 4 hours and find nothing of the stuff I am looking for.
I want the same for certain commodities like the modular terminals.
For example FD could just implement certain rules like: you can only get them at high tech stations, on planets and you need to be allied.
I would then have to work to become allied and perhaps spend several days doing all kinds of missions, but then I would know that I would not be doing it for nothing.

 

[kdjac]

http://images.akamai.steamuserconte...836/5C84237AD3EF368635496283E6D3B29B061EF5A5/



All from Shu Babassi tonight.

Now that I only need one more(8 last night from same place) I assume the game "knows" this.