2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[-VR- Max Factor]

Me, unbaised?

But nope, won't kill me, and actually, i'm looking forward to it.

As I recall though, its not the ability that is the problem for most people, its mainly just a lot of arguing about whether instant transport is a problem or not.

For me, i'm kind of meh. If its instant, ok, i can live with it, i can separate gameplay from game lore in my head. If it takes time and more lore friendly, i can live with it, and go run some missions or something until my summoned ship arrives.

In general I feel this thread is largely much ado about nothing, since majority seem to agree that ship transfer in general is a good thing.

Yep. I think nearly all of us want ship transfer, but it is how it is implemented that is the problem. Personally I would like them to make more of a feature of it, like using the NPC hire system for ship transfer, make it a bit more interesting instead of a simple drop down menu and the ship magically appears at your station.

 

[NeilF]

Yep. I think nearly all of us want ship transfer, but it is how it is implemented that is the problem. Personally I would like them to make more of a feature of it, like using the NPC hire system for ship transfer, make it a bit more interesting instead of a simple drop down menu and the ship magically appears at your station.

I'd always envisaged huge transportation ships coming into and leaving stations... Just another part of the traffic we can encounter...

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'd always envisaged huge transportation ships coming into and leaving stations... Just another part of the traffic we can encounter...

That would look good as well, I would be happy with either.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

Anyone else noticed how this thread has a more agreeable tone lately? Have the kids gone back to school?

[Mumbles] OK, I'm working from home sort of.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I don't like timers. Instant isn't my preference, but I like instant a lot more than I like interruptive timers. Send-to avoids both, but inserts the concept of time elapsing, without leaving commanders twiddling thumbs at the other end.

Er, wrong.

I like send to. I also like the idea of sending from and to when I am not at the send from point or the send to point. All is good.

But send to does not avoid instant and timers. It avoids one or the other, but not both. If I send to, and the ship is always there where I get there, it is effectively instant, since it gets there faster than I could in my taxi, which is tuned for the fastest travel allowed. Those of us objecting to instant magic will still object, because magic is the only way it could have got there before us. If it is not there when it arrives, then it is obviously on some sort of timer.

Not having to do the disposable self-ferrying taxi game is a huge QoL improvement. Doing it by magic is a huge problem for a large proportion of the player base.

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That whole thing can be balanced out with cost, time is money. Of that works out to be more profitable per time them the cost can be adjusted to mitigate profits.

That does not balance it for me. You can use magic, but only if you are rich, is still using magic.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

It means wait, see and try for yourselves.

Like it or hate it, FDev doesn't want to consider too much commentary until beta.

I really do not understand the straw clutching about the beta (not directed at you, personally, this was just a convenient post to quote). I believe that the likelihood of anything useful about ship transfer coming out of the beta to be approximately zero. First of all, few are going to behave in the beta like they will in the real game. Some of us fear that all bubble travel will be done in taxis with instant teleport of the ship we want. That may well happen, but to the degree that FD see it as a problem? I doubt it. And, of course, we know that FD are happy enough to go GA with severe bugs found and reported in the beta, and the beta testers begging them to wait until they have fixed things. I think the beta is too late.

Which is why I am still banging on about this (though much less often than once I did) because despite what FD have said about the decision having been made, the best time to try to get it reversed is now. FD say they have thought through the implications and that they think the upsides are worth it, despite the downsides. I think we probably are stuck with this awful decision. But I will continue to look around my pram for toys to throw out of it.

 

[NeilF]

I like send to. I also like the idea of sending from and to when I am not at the send from point or the send to point. All is good.

Do you not seeing this creating a "reward-faff-loop"?

For example you are going to Twizl and think you might just need your fighter on arrival? So you send it ahead... But on arrival you don't... And this becomes a habit, which ultimately becomes a faff... And in the end you stop doing it, only to find a couple of days later you do need your fighter ASAP, and it's not on the way now...

As attractive as "sent ahead" sounds I wonder if it will just open up "faff" and almost prove unnecessary?


Can you give a game example where you feel Push would benefit over Pull? Is Push simply trying to save time?

ps: And of course Push would be a slightly more complex interface than Pull too!

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Sometimes i'm a bit slow at catching on to things. This morning it struck me. I'm wanting to upgrade the Engines on my T9 with Palin (rank 5). That means taking it some distance.

I'm so glad ship transfer is coming! Instant or not, don't care. Just so i won't have to do silly things like make all those jumps in a T9 to get that mod. And then return!

Of course, i'm also impatient, so i'll probably actually go ahead and take my T9 to Palin before 2.2

Still, i'll go get the rank 5 FSD upgrade first, at least that should make it a bit less painful.

You will also not have to risk that T9 getting interdicted whilst you fly to Palin, OR when you fly back. That goes beyond just being a QoL feature.

 

[Robert Maynard]

As attractive as "sent ahead" sounds I wonder if it will just open up "faff" and almost prove unnecessary?

Send ahead would not allow the player to, to quote the stream example, jump from their Type-9 to their Vulture once a particular use case for the Vulture at that location had been discovered - therefore, in my opinion, send ahead fails the "barrier to gameplay removal" test that Frontier would appear to be applying with respect to ship transfer in general.

 

[Robert Maynard]

You will also not have to risk that T9 getting interdicted whilst you fly to Palin, OR when you fly back. That goes beyond just being a QoL feature.

Is there a shipyard at the Engineer base? If not then the Type-9 would still have to at least Super-Cruise from the nearest in-system dock with a shipyard to the Engineer base.

I do take the point that taxi Haulers / Asps for quick travel would likely become the order of the day with bare minimum travel in particular ships (i.e. just enough to serve the purpose they were transferred for).

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Do you not seeing this creating a "reward-faff-loop"?

For example you are going to Twizl and think you might just need your fighter on arrival? So you send it ahead... But on arrival you don't... And this becomes a habit, which ultimately becomes a faff... And in the end you stop doing it, only to find a couple of days later you do need your fighter ASAP, and it's not on the way now...

As attractive as "sent ahead" sounds I wonder if it will just open up "faff" and almost prove unnecessary?


Can you give a game example where you feel Push would benefit over Pull? Is Push simply trying to save time?

ps: And of course Push would be a slightly more complex interface than Pull too!

There is danger of the faff, yes. But at least it is faff you chose to do, and once you realise you are wasting time you can go back to only doing it when needed. But I suspect the time to do the move should be short, and usually you could do it when you are doing something else, like supercruising to a port to refuel.

Doing a push is simply a manifestation of the idea that you have more time to plan than to react. Assuming 'sensible' transfer times (based on how long it would actually take the ship to get there), then if you are in system A with ship X and your taxi, the fastest safe way to be in system B with ship X is to send X to B, jump in the taxi and drive to X, so you are there when the ship arrives. Of course, you could just fly to X, but then you are without your taxi and you might have to fight your way there.

Yes, push is more complicated than pull. Move from X to Y when you are not in X or Y is more complicated still.

 

[NeilF]

You will also not have to risk that T9 getting interdicted whilst you fly to Palin, OR when you fly back. That goes beyond just being a QoL feature.

And this, no matter what the nature of the transport is (immediate or delayed), is a consideration!

However, is it just a minor issue? Want to carry cargo in your T9, you'll still need to fly it? And that's the only time it should be of interest to NPC/CMDR pirates etc?

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

Is there a shipyard at the Engineer base? If not then the Type-9 would still have to at least Super-Cruise from the nearest in-system dock with a shipyard to the Engineer base.

I do take the point that taxi Haulers / Asps for quick travel would likely become the order of the day with bare minimum travel in particular ships (i.e. just enough to serve the purpose they were transferred for).

Why not have the Engineer come to you? That would be much more convenient, like Kwik-Fits mobile unit, and would be a significant Quality Of Life improvement.

Edit - Kwik-Fit are really good by the way.

Edit - Other mobile tyre fitters are available.

 

[NeilF]

Is there a shipyard at the Engineer base? If not then the Type-9 would still have to at least Super-Cruise from the nearest in-system dock with a shipyard to the Engineer base.

I do take the point that taxi Haulers / Asps for quick travel would likely become the order of the day with bare minimum travel in particular ships (i.e. just enough to serve the purpose they were transferred for).

Good point...

I assume the transportation interface will be through somewhere other than "Shipyard" etc... Or more likely, the Shipyard will be split up so all locations have a Shipyard, but at some you simply can't buy/sell etc.

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QUESTION:

I've still not seen people address the issue of station distance from star?

eg: If you calculate a ships ETA in mintes by either:-

1) DistanceInLy/JumpRangeInLY

or

2) Number of jumps via Route Plotter

...and potentially skew this values. eg: x 1.25...​

That still doesn't take into account the fact the station is 100,000ls from the star which takes 25 minutes of fly time?


So do we also add onto the ETA time more minutes? eg: StationDistanceInLs/5000

 

[Robert Maynard]

So do we also add onto the ETA time more minutes? eg: StationDistanceInLs/5000

.... to Hutton Orbital? (although there is no shipyard there)

 

[djadjok]

Good point...

I assume the transportation interface will be through somewhere other than "Shipyard" etc... Or more likely, the Shipyard will be split up so all locations have a Shipyard, but at some you simply can't buy/sell etc.

As a known "no magic" supporter I'me definetely don't like this idea=)

QUESTION:

I've still not seen people address the issue of station distance from star?

eg: If you calculate a ships ETA in mintes by either:-

1) DistanceInLy/JumpRangeInLY

or

2) Number of jumps via Route Plotter

...and potentially skew this values. eg: x 1.25...​

That still doesn't take into account the fact the station is 100,000ls from the star which takes 25 minutes of fly time?


So do we also add onto the ETA time more minutes? eg: StationDistanceInLs/5000

(*By the way - good ETA graphical estimation is in my signature - TOF)
Strangely enough, I haven't feel much protest about not counting ETA in ship transfers.
Oh, we all remember this "bug" with winged commanders jumping to wing member beacon. Ok, that was in fact an issue, so don't really counts.
One more much more important remark - as I remember I've heard some kind of "promises" that somewhere in future releases we will have the ability to somehow select to which star in system (if more then one) we want to "jump" (and the announced new jumping screen with the destination star "visible" can be a little step toward implementation). This ability can greatly reduce ETA times.

 

[NeilF]

As a known "no magic" supporter I'me definetely don't like this idea=)

Sorry, don't follow!?

So if I call my T9 to my current Engineers, which currently has no Shipyard, you see a problem with this?

It surely only doesn't have a Shipyard at the moment because they don't allow the purchase and selling of ships? Well I'm not doing either of those? I'm transporting and storing a ship... What's the issue?

(*By the way - good ETA graphical estimation is in my signature - TOF)
Strangely enough, I haven't feel much protest about not counting ETA in ship transfers.
Oh, we all remember this "bug" with winged commanders jumping to wing member beacon. Ok, that was in fact an issue, so don't really counts.
One more much more important remark - as I remember I've heard some kind of "promises" that somewhere in future releases we will have the ability to somehow select to which star in system (if more then one) we want to "jump" (and the announced new jumping screen with the destination star "visible" can be a little step toward implementation). This ability can greatly reduce ETA times.

Sorry? So "not counting ETA in ship transfers" means? Instant travel? Or not bothering with how far a station is away from the star as regards an ETA?

 

[Quill]

Is this thread still going, wow!

but its happening, instant magic is here

FD have spoken!!!

 

[DancingShade]

Is this thread still going, wow!

but its happening, instant magic is here

FD have spoken!!!

Won't stop fun haters hating other people having fun though.

 

[NeilF]

Won't stop fun haters hating other people having fun though.

"Fun haters" being people simply anyone with different views to yours I assume? Not like I'm pointing out a childish comment or anything though...

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.... to Hutton Orbital? (although there is no shipyard there)

A Shipyard is for buying/selling ships surely? Ship transport isn't anything to do with that so surely falls under a different requirement?

Are you suggesting we shouldn't be able to transfer ships to Hutton Orbital?


And your take on including distance from star to destination into any ETA calculation? eg: Should an ETA be the same to a station 10ls from star as 100,000ls?